advise: guys who been there or the science behind it

[no one]

so in a effort to keep generating discussion on training, as the majority of us here love to do, when you take advice what do you look to in terms of 'proofs'?

there has been a science vs experience theme here as of late.

imo if I'm taking advise I'm going to take it from someone that has a look or build that I want to emulate. I'll look at that persons training, nutrition and cycle advise and apply it to my instance where I can and see if it works for me.

that being said, I think results at the end are strictly a matter of genetics in terms of response to drugs and the frame / type of muscle you have.

I think you need to take the look your going for and apply the advise you get within those parameters. you want to be a 260lb beast w traps up to his ears and looks like he can move a house? chances are 2g cycles and training w cables isn't going to do it.

we can argue circularly all day abt this. but in the end how you want to look is going to be determined by genetics dosage and training load.  think serge nubret vs Franco columbo. different styles, different training loads, different looks. prolly different doses as well but I imagine still ball park within one another.

[kreator]

genetics 

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

When you emulate what said person is doing it might have a totally different effect on you. Some people can get away with almost anything regarding food (or training) for example, me I will be a fatfuck within weeks.

Reminds me, we used to have some dude from ghana in our gym, only lifted 20% of the stacks on the machines, did very fast high rep training. Guy had the biggest shredded arms and delts i have ever seen and he never broke a sweat in the gym. 

[snx]

I rely, generally speaking, on science.

One individual's genetic make-up makes it near impossible to apply their methods to me and hope for similar results. They may in fact be an outlier, and outliers are of no use to the average person.

I use average results, over large populations, to extrapolate what my results will be.

For example, on average, people with post-secondary education make $X,XXX more than those who only have high school education. I know high school educated friends who make far more than I do. To have emulated their methods hoping for their results may have proven disastrous for me.

So instead, I rely on the law of averages over large populations. I went and got post-secondary education because if I'm the average guy, then on average, I should expect average results. And lets face it, we're all pretty average, even though society and our moms keep telling us we're all very, very special unique butterflies.

So, when it comes to how I eat, I follow the general average results that average people can expect with the average diet. Nothing special. I'm probably quite average.

When it comes to response to supplements, I generally tend to assume I'm average, and look to what the average results are with supplements. And I expect I'll be around there.

In fact, I may or may not be an outlier. But I can't assume I will be. But I must assume that a single person, does not a statistically significant average result make.

I like to idolize those who achieve the results I desire. But I would never fool myself into believing that doing what they do will work in any way, shape, or form for me. I err on the side of caution; what are the majority of bodybuilders doing, most of the time, and how to do most of them look? I will then do what most of them do, most of the time, and expect to look like most of them do.

Chances are I'm not going to find any sort of secret on my own. Or by watching another person do it.

But that's just my opinion. And I'm one guy. So you'd be foolhardy to base your approach on what one man said, if you believe anything I've written above. How ironic...

[El Diablo Blanco]

One person's experience doesn't mean shit to anyone else.  You need trails and errors across a range of people before you can state your fact.  Just because you once ate roasted cockroaches and loved it doesn't mean anyone else will.

I knew 4 guido guys in highschool.  All decided to jump on juice.  Same dealer, same doses, all worked out together.  The results of each one was night and day.  One guy looked like he wasn't on another, another blew up like cswol, one looked harder and more dense.  So each one's experience was something different.  One would tell you steroids suck, while the other would rave about how amazing they are.

[wes]

Yup,all trial and error.......keep what works,discard the rest or file it away for future experimentation.

[CalvinH]

For me a lot of my lifting is about time, as in I don't want to spend all night in the gym.
I'm going for a leaner look this summer. last year I weighed around 210lb...looking to be around 190-195lb this summer. so I want to be doing more cardio.
If I lose some muscle but look more ripped I'm fine with that.
I don't really ask a lot of advice from people when it comes to what to put in my body. years of trying for myself has lead me to know what works best for me.
but if see someone or read about someone doing an exercise that is new to me or I forgot about I'll try it.

[wolfrittner]

so in a effort to keep generating discussion on training, as the majority of us here love to do, when you take advice what do you look to in terms of 'proofs'?

there has been a science vs experience theme here as of late.

imo if I'm taking advise I'm going to take it from someone that has a look or build that I want to emulate.
.

that's about right! I always thought Strydom looked awesome and he let me train with him..Everything I know about working out, I learned from him!  He is all about training and diet! None of this Mega bullshit 6g or whatever! You got to work hard for your Physique he says!
No one-  walks the talk you can tell! Very fresh hard looking muscle ! You can only get that by training hard and dieting! Whatever he say the amounts are ,I believe it and that's who I would ask for Advice!!! Not some fat outta shape French fry  eating Pig! If you  take advice from someone who has nothing to show for, then you are an stupid idiot and deserve to get hurt or even die!

[tbombz]

For quite some time now I have considered it more a matter of faith than either genetics, training, or diet.

And even drug response, more about faith than genetics.

[ESFitness]

how often do you see a guy make new progress by adapting a new training 'program'?

very rarely.

how often do you see a guy make new progress by changing what, how, how much, and when he eats?

pretty often. (local npc guys who work with a 'trainer' for the first time, after years of training on their own)

how often do you see a guy make new progress by either adding gh or increasing gh? and adding or increasing insulin? (which also comes with changing nutrition)

pretty often. (npc guys and pro's who have years of steroid and training experience adding 40lbs of stage weight in better condition... milos, Nasser, dorian, kai, phil, Ronnie just to name the popular names)

... training's the same. we find out over time what works for us and what doesn't long before we start toying with the other stuff.

johnnie Jackson was doing stupid heavy 2" shrugs and growing huge traps long before he started with increasing dosages.. or any dosages at all.

Ronnie was doing heavy deads and squats long before he did the same...

flex was doing pump pump feel the burn arm workouts long before he even stepped onstage.

dorian was training hit long before he got on the gh/slin wagon and put on 50lbs of granite.

the list goes on... (just naming well known guys, but the same applies to everybody)

everything works, but not everything works for every body. after a few years of training, you figure out what's the best to give you a wide back, what makes your own delts 'pop', what adds size to your quads, what makes your calves grow best, ect... you may make a change here and there for a while to avoid going 'stale' and getting bored with training, but eventually you'll go back to what you were doing before.