God did it - metabolism discovered OUTSIDE of the a cell

[Necrosis]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25471-spark-of-life-metabolism-appears-in-lab-without-cells.html?cmpid=RSS%7CNSNS%7C2012-GLOBAL%7Conline-news#.U1vJThTnjVK

Uh oh, metabolism discovered OUTSIDE of the a cell. This opens up everything.

Perhaps god did it. We may have a verifiable, reproducible process to produce the basic building blocks of life without a cell.

[240 is Back]

ECA of peace

[Europe]

dark matter or dark energy, playing games with us??? 

[Viking11]

Thanks for sharing.  I believe Asimov or Sagan proposed this as a probability years ago.  Now here's some experimental evidence. The Universe makes life as a matter of natural profession.

[Melkor]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25471-spark-of-life-metabolism-appears-in-lab-without-cells.html?cmpid=RSS%7CNSNS%7C2012-GLOBAL%7Conline-news#.U1vJThTnjVK

Uh oh, metabolism discovered OUTSIDE of the a cell. This opens up everything.

Perhaps god did it. We may have a verifiable, reproducible process to produce the basic building blocks of life without a cell.

Quite the contrary actually.

It is often argued by those of the intelligence design persuasion, that the metabolic reactions required to form the building blocks of living cells were too complex to occur outside of a biological organism (i.e. a living cell). In other words the cell and the organism had to come first before the chemical reactions could occur.

What this paper shows (and what has been shown many times before going back as far as the Miller-Urey experiment in the 50's) is that the chemical reactions that can create the building blocks of the cell (and of life) can be created outside of a living cell.

This dispels the notion that the cells were "created" first. It is likely that the building blocks of life (amino acids, DNA, RNA, fats, etc) can be created under abiotic conditions, arising spontaneously in an aquatic environment where the correct combination of chemical ions are present along with a heat source (possibly from hydrothermal vents).

[tbombz]

I am reminded of the volcano experiments that so many kindergartens do for the children. Mixing two substances and watching the reaction.   Pretty cool stuff. Doesnt mean that rocks turn into rocket scientists tho.

[wes]

Eggheads Of Peace   

[Melkor]

I am reminded of the volcano experiments that so many kindergartens do for the children. Mixing two substances and watching the reaction.   Pretty cool stuff. Doesnt mean that rocks turn into rocket scientists tho.

  What an interesting quote. And in a very roundabout, indirect way, it is potentially true to say that rocks turn into rocket scientists. (after billions of years of course)

[tbombz]

It can happen in an instant, only if God commands it. But without him, nothing would ever happen. Nothing can ever happen.

[anabolichalo]

[Melkor]

It can happen in an instant, only if God commands it. But without him, nothing would ever happen. Nothing can ever happen.

I strongly disagree but fully respect your own beliefs all the same. 

[tbombz]

Speaking in a strictly faithless, only earthly logic based manner:

There is only one possible way to explain the natural, and that is to evoke the supernatural. 

Or you can accept the universe as inherently unexplainable. But people rarely do that, because they want to know something.

[Melkor]

Speaking in a strictly faithless, only earthly logic based manner:

There is only one possible way to explain the natural, and that is to evoke the supernatural.  

Or you can accept the universe as inherently unexplainable. But people rarely do that, because they want to know something.

Well without getting into a deep discussion on quantum physics there have been several scientific breakthroughs in the last century explaining the mysteries of the universe and the cosmos. There is empirical evidence on how galaxies, planets and stars form. However I am not a physicist and don't feel comfortable in an in-depth discussion on the topic.

I am however a biologist and can tell you that there is very strong empirical evidence for the creation of life by natural means. The link to the paper at the start of this thread is one documented example that the building blocks of life - the foundation of cellular organisms, can be created from seemingly lifeless sources (minerals, ions, chemicals etc in the presence of energy in the form of heat). Furthermore, the continued presence and diversification of life on Earth can be explained by the theory of evolution.

I don't claim that we have an answer for everything - that would be arrogant. I do however see more reasonable solutions, backed up by theoretical and empirical evidence, as to how the universe and life was formed than to simply say that it is unexplainable and therefore must be supernatural i.e. created by a supreme being

[Coach is Back!]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25471-spark-of-life-metabolism-appears-in-lab-without-cells.html?cmpid=RSS%7CNSNS%7C2012-GLOBAL%7Conline-news#.U1vJThTnjVK

Uh oh, metabolism discovered OUTSIDE of the a cell. This opens up everything.

Perhaps god did it. We may have a verifiable, reproducible process to produce the basic building blocks of life without a cell.

Maybe he did. Tell you what. I'll send this article to a few people I know that are much smarter than you and I and see if I can't get a response. But unless you have more studies that can contradict it, it's just one theory. Since your people are constantly trying to prove evolution, we might have to conclude this is a bias article and falls in line with "Global Warming". Never trust a liberal or atheist to deliver accurate information. It's usually all about their politics and bullshitting the world. 

[Coach is Back!]

I just really have to add that this is a prime example of just another insecure athiest making an attempt to stir shit up.

[daddy8ball]

Well without getting into a deep discussion on quantum physics there have been several scientific breakthroughs in the last century explaining the mysteries of the universe and the cosmos. There is empirical evidence on how galaxies, planets and stars form. However I am not a physicist and don't feel comfortable in an in-depth discussion on the topic.

I am however a biologist and can tell you that there is very strong empirical evidence for the creation of life by natural means. The link to the paper at the start of this thread is one documented example that the building blocks of life - the foundation of cellular organisms, can be created from seemingly lifeless sources (minerals, ions, chemicals etc in the presence of energy in the form of heat). Furthermore, the continued presence and diversification of life on Earth can be explained by the theory of evolution.

I don't claim that we have an answer for everything - that would be arrogant. I do however see more reasonable solutions, backed up by theoretical and empirical evidence, as to how the universe and life was formed than to simply say that it is unexplainable and therefore must be supernatural i.e. created by a supreme being

Creating a "chemical reaction" and then making the conclusion that this can form complex life is like striking a match and then saying you have a Windows XP operating system. There are quite a few jumps involved.

[tbombz]

Well without getting into a deep discussion on quantum physics there have been several scientific breakthroughs in the last century explaining the mysteries of the universe and the cosmos. There is empirical evidence on how galaxies, planets and stars form. However I am not a physicist and don't feel comfortable in an in-depth discussion on the topic.

I am however a biologist and can tell you that there is very strong empirical evidence for the creation of life by natural means. The link to the paper at the start of this thread is one documented example that the building blocks of life - the foundation of cellular organisms, can be created from seemingly lifeless sources (minerals, ions, chemicals etc in the presence of energy in the form of heat). Furthermore, the continued presence and diversification of life on Earth can be explained by the theory of evolution.

I don't claim that we have an answer for everything - that would be arrogant. I do however see more reasonable solutions, backed up by theoretical and empirical evidence, as to how the universe and life was formed than to simply say that it is unexplainable and therefore must be supernatural i.e. created by a supreme being

  no. Its not that it is unexplainable and therefore must be supernatural, it is either it is unexplainable or it is supernatural. There are no other options. And God is the only possible answer.

[tbombz]

Creating a "chemical reaction" and then making the conclusion that this can form complex life is like striking a match and then saying you have a Windows XP operating system. There are quite a few jumps involved.

thats a good analogy = except its about infinitely more difficult to create life out of non-life than it is to create Windows XP from a lit match

[Man of Steel]

Faith stops from asking questions?  Why?

[anabolichalo]

Faith stops from asking questions?  Why?

Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion. It can also be defined as belief that is not based on proof,[1] as well as confidence based on some degree of warrant.[2][3] The word faith is often used as a synonym for hope,[4] trust,[5] or belief.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

[deceiver]

Maybe he did. Tell you what. I'll send this article to a few people I know that are much smarter than you and I and see if I can't get a response. But unless you have more studies that can contradict it, it's just one theory. Since your people are constantly trying to prove evolution, we might have to conclude this is a bias article and falls in line with "Global Warming". Never trust a liberal or atheist to deliver accurate information. It's usually all about their politics and bullshitting the world. 

You really do consider creationism a legitimate "alternative"? Gosh, what an idiot.

[latiuss]

damn i feel stupid

[Melkor]

 no. Its not that it is unexplainable and therefore must be supernatural, it is either it is unexplainable or it is supernatural. There are no other options. And God is the only possible answer.

But it is not unexplainable. That's the point I'm making - there is so much we actually know about how life originally formed. This paper is just another example of solving a part of the puzzle. There is good empirical evidence that life can form from abiotic origins. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever of a supreme being capable of creating life.

thats a good analogy = except its about infinitely more difficult to create life out of non-life than it is to create Windows XP from a lit match

Actually it is not.

Firstly you need to define what "life" is. When people think of life they think of a human or an elephant or a pride of lions. However these are the result of BILLIONS of years of evolution.

A living organism at it's most basic level is a single cell i.e. a circular lipid membrane, which contains a strand of DNA (or even just RNA, which has an even more simple and complex structure than DNA). Remember, DNA is the essence of life (from a literal viewpoint). Now, EVERY component of that cell (the lipid membrane, the DNA/RNA strands, any basic structural proteins or amino acids) can be created from lifeless sources (minerals, ions, elements found in the Earths environment). In the presence of an energy source (most likely heat from a hydrothermal vent) these chemicals can react to form the building blocks of life. It is not as complex as people would believe.

The big thing that people are ignorant of is GEOLOGICAL TIME. For example, we start out with this very primitive single cell. about 3.5 BILLION years ago. It probably then took about another 3 billion years before complex multi-cellular organisms started to form. So we had single-celled life (bacteria and the like) for 3 BILLION YEARS before it even evolved into a multi-cellular organism. This is a point that is sometimes lost on people. The timescale at which this was occurring is literally mind blowing and is something you need to comprehend before saying "its impossible".

[el numero uno]

Faith stops from asking questions?  Why?

Why?

Because in religion the "god did it" is pretty much the answer for everything.

Remember the debate between Bill The science guy and the other guy? Whenever Bill mentioned something that we still don't understand the religious guy will say "oh, but we already have an answer for that, it's in the bible".

Yeah, that's why.

[el numero uno]

Maybe he did. Tell you what. I'll send this article to a few people I know that are much smarter than you and I and see if I can't get a response. But unless you have more studies that can contradict it, it's just one theory. Since your people are constantly trying to prove evolution, we might have to conclude this is a bias article and falls in line with "Global Warming". Never trust a liberal or atheist to deliver accurate information. It's usually all about their politics and bullshitting the world. 

Coach again giving us a demostration of what a 80ish IQ can do.