Breaking the diet plateau by eating more?

[wes]

No science in my article either AJ,just stuff that works from being tested to work.

thats because there is no science behind why we say to have a cheat day.

we state time and again we are not scientists, and we dont give advise based on 'science'.

dont try to paint us as trying to be something we freely admit to not being, and are proud of not being.

FUCK SCIENCE   ! 

[OTHstrong]

I guess when the body gets accustomed to eating low calories it learns to adapt and utilize them sparringly to not get depleted, then when it is hit hard with a big splurge, your metabolism goes beserk and the body reacts negatively like it's under attack.

All bro science of course.

actually it is not bro science, it is true and confirmed already, if anyone pays attention to eating a humongous meal at night, they actually wake up with hunger pains, while if they had ate small they wouldn't be hungry at all in the morning.

[_aj_]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/control_leptin_and_control_your_leanness

There is one article explaining Leptin, familiarise yourself with leptin, ghrelin, thyroid out put and insulin sensitivity you will see, plenty of science explaining why cheat meals/refeeds work.

Still doubt it? Try is it yourself and see, just make sure you are dieting for a few weeks before trying and make sure your diet plan is optimising your insulin sensitivity.

Thanks for the article. I remember reading it now. No so good retention.

[_aj_]

Is anybody else actually thrilled to be discussing something vaguely bb-related rather than the other drama going on?

[wes]

Is anybody else actually thrilled to be discussing something vaguely bb-related rather than the other drama going on?

It is indeed a rarity `round these parts!  

[ProudVirgin69]

I've always wondered about "cheat days". Everybody says to do them, but are unclear as to why? Is it psychological: letting off steam so that you don't "blow" and eat 10,000 calories of ice cream? Of is there a physiological component, like "replenishment" or some other bullshit?

I don't like cheat meals because I have a psychological aversion to my own weakness. That said, I do have a couple of slices of pizza every week with my son. It's a Daddy/Son thing that we've been doing for years. I don't eat a lot of it.

Would I look "fuller" (oh brother) if I ate a cubic yard of craptastic Chinese every week?

Really, the only real physiological reason I can think of is to restore glycogen levels if doing a keto-style diet.  People mention these thyroid/leptin/ghrelin theories, but I've talked with a handful of people that have tried it both ways and they maintain that they got lean quicker with no cheat meals.

Galeniko & Sevastase are two posters here that I know have mentioned this

[Icelord]

Really, the only real physiological reason I can think of is to restore glycogen levels if doing a keto-style diet.  People mention these thyroid/leptin/ghrelin theories, but I've talked with a handful of people that have tried it both ways and they maintain that they got lean quicker with no cheat meals.

Galeniko & Sevastase are two posters here that I know have mentioned this

If you eat 2000 calories a day with the same 5 meals a day, your metabolism will slow down once it accepts what you're putting into it. Unless you change the training by increasing the intensity through shorter rest periods or more cardio. Your body doesn't simply go from 25% BF to 5% just by dieting the same way over and over.

So the cheat meal does serve a purpose. But it won't be enough by itself.

[no one]

FUCK SCIENCE   ! 

we must have been separated at birth.

[OTHstrong]

Really, the only real physiological reason I can think of is to restore glycogen levels if doing a keto-style diet.  People mention these thyroid/leptin/ghrelin theories, but I've talked with a handful of people that have tried it both ways and they maintain that they got lean quicker with no cheat meals.

Galeniko & Sevastase are two posters here that I know have mentioned this

cheat meals work but they are not quicker then a no carb diets, you are right about that. They are effective on a low carb diet where plateaus are an issue, but a no carb diet has no plateaus at all so cheat meals are not necessary.

I also never use cheat meals or cheat days.

[wes]

Really, the only real physiological reason I can think of is to restore glycogen levels if doing a keto-style diet.  People mention these thyroid/leptin/ghrelin theories, but I've talked with a handful of people that have tried it both ways and they maintain that they got lean quicker with no cheat meals.

Galeniko & Sevastase are two posters here that I know have mentioned this

I never cheat,notice I said clean bigger meals............I know you weren`t referring specifically to me,just saying.

I`ve had clients just starting a diet and they were fat, ask me when their cheat day was.  

The only time I cheat,is when I hit 4-5 % bf,and then it`s beef,more whole eggs,a few higher carb days.........not much of a cheat,just more fats/cals.

Once I am in clean eating mode,it is not a problem for me to continue eating clean,but I only do it that strict for a contest prep,other than that,I live a little and have a cheat day and a cheat meal here and there.

[no one]

I am not trying to do that. I am independently seeking some science behind the "cheat meal" concept and why it works. Your book was brought up as a place to look for said research and I, like you, disputed that claim.

There is a selfish motive here as I feel that I don't need a "psychological" cheat meal. But, if there are real physiological benefits, I can go to Five Guys right now.

for us, the first reason we use the cheat meal to replenish glycogen stores that deplete over the 3-4 days of being in the hole. your next two workouts as a result are amazing.

the second reason is for enjoyment. there is NO REASON you should not eat the foods you love when your on a diet.

basically it resets you mentally and physically.

i have my own opinions about cal intake and metabolism which i think i touched on in the book- if your in a big enough deficit and doing enoguh work you'll burn fat regardless where your metabolism is at. so in my case i dont use the meal for burning fat. it just doesnt make sense to me- and i dont do things that dont make sense esp where it regards training and nutrition. lol

cheers bro.

[wes]

we must have been separated at birth.

Yup,you got the good looks and the height though! 

[Icelord]

The difference between someone who can diet and someone who cannot diet is the dieter will cheat, then get back on the diet. And the other person won't be able to stop.

[no one]

I never cheat,notice I said clean bigger meals............I know you weren`t referring specifically to me,just saying.

I`ve had clients just starting a diet and they were fat, ask me when their cheat day was. 

The only time I cheat,is when I hit 4-5 % bf,and then it`s beef,more whole eggs,a few higher carb days.........not much of a cheat,just more fats/cals.

Once I am in clean eating mode,it is not a problem for me to continue eating clean,but I only do it that strict for a contest prep,other than that,I live a little and have a cheat day and a cheat meal here and there.

agreed. there is no need for a cheat meal if your not this lean. ever. i should have stated that in my post, but was referencing the book.

[no one]

Yup,you got the good looks and the height though! 

hahahaha well, im sure we've each done ok in life w what god gave us.

[wes]

agreed. there is no need for a cheat meal if your not this lean. ever. i should have stated that in my post, but was referencing the book.

You guys wrote a book that echoes a lot of my thoughts on training,gear,and diet.

Great minds think alike ! 

[ProudVirgin69]

If you eat 2000 calories a day with the same 5 meals a day, your metabolism will slow down once it accepts what you're putting into it. Unless you change the training by increasing the intensity through shorter rest periods or more cardio. Your body doesn't simply go from 25% BF to 5% just by dieting the same way over and over.

So the cheat meal does serve a purpose. But it won't be enough by itself.

Sure it does....activity level is the main factor behind metabolism.  If you maintain the same activity levels throughout the diet and 2000 calories is below your caloric expenditures, why would you stop losing weight?

[Icelord]

the way you two diet, you could've been ripped without being enhanced IMO.

[wes]

hahahaha well, im sure we've each done ok in life w what god gave us.

He didn`t give me too much.....I owe him for that. 

[Icelord]

Sure it does....activity level is the main factor behind metabolism.  If you maintain the same activity levels throughout the diet and 2000 calories is below your caloric expenditures, why would you stop losing weight?

no, it really doesn't. And until you can show me an example of someone who got that lean eating the same food/calories consistently, I won't believe you. Sorry. My experience is your body draws the line at one point (varies by person) and then no more. Unless you change something outside the kitchen. Or you're enhanced by ergogenic substances.

[wes]

the way you two diet, you could've been ripped without being enhanced IMO.

Who says we weren`t ?  LOL  

Actually,my diet has gone to shit (intentionally)....I  do this at times, and I`m off all gear for almost a year or so now.

IMO,you need the break (mental as well as physical) here and there,just like the top guys back in the day.

I usually always stay on small dosages,but not always,but no matter what I`m doing,I always train.

[OTHstrong]

no, it really doesn't. And until you can show me an example of someone who got that lean eating the same food/calories consistently, I won't believe you. Sorry. My experience is your body draws the line at one point (varies by person) and then no more. Unless you change something outside the kitchen. Or you're enhanced by ergogenic substances.

I eat the same amount of food on day 1 of dieting at 14% all the way till 4% bodyfat, same exact food and calories every single day

[ProudVirgin69]

cheat meals work but they are not quicker then a no carb diets, you are right about that. They are effective on a low carb diet where plateaus are an issue, but a no carb diet has no plateaus at all so cheat meals are not necessary.

Could you expand more on this?  What do you consider low-carb?  Why are the plateaus an issue with low-carb?

For the record, I always generally considered low-carb & no carb to be the same thing....<30-50g carbs a day

Anything over 50, and that's more what I would consider "lower carb"....purely semantics though

[Icelord]

I eat the same amount of food on day 1 of dieting at 14% all the way till 4% bodyfat, same exact food and calories every single day

Are you 100% natural?

[ProudVirgin69]

no, it really doesn't. And until you can show me an example of someone who got that lean eating the same food/calories consistently, I won't believe you. Sorry. My experience is your body draws the line at one point (varies by person) and then no more. Unless you change something outside the kitchen. Or you're enhanced by ergogenic substances.

Umm yeah it is....hold up, I'll dig up some research.

Also, Exhibit A   :

I eat the same amount of food on day 1 of dieting at 14% all the way till 4% bodyfat, same exact food and calories every single day

EDIT:  Oh lol I didn't know you were talking about naturals.  In that case, maybe.....but who cares about naturals lol, this is bodybuilding after all