TRT style dosage

[deceiver]

Hey dipshit, how about you dont fuck up your clients TRT program. The whole point is to find a HEALTHY range that keeps him optional. 500mg/week is not anywhere near natural range. At least while he's getting started and his doc is adjusting things, don't interfere.  250mg is a good dose, a lot of docs do much lower and work their way up to the lowest dose that reaches an "optimal" range based on repeated blood work.  You do realize his doctor will know something is not right if his serum levels came back much higher than 250mg can produce, right? You're just going to get your client dropped by the HRT clinic/doc and/or chastised.

You should get half a fucking brain and advise your "client" to get his TRT program started, focus on diet and training within the "optimal" natural range created by the recommended TRT. Let him get used to that and also COMPLY WITH HIS FUCKING DOCTOR for a few months. Otherwise his doc will never really nail down his optimal dose correctly. After 4-5 months, he can blast 500mg/wk or something for 8-12 weeks but he needs to be informed of all the ramifications. By then, they should have dialed him in and wont be taking his blood often. For being a trainer, you post horribly stupid shit all over this forum. Keep up the good work, meathead.

You're a trainer to average joes. Not a guru or a gear pusher. Start representing your profession a little better.

Fuck doctors, fuck "optimal" range. There is zero research proving that overall, say, more than 800ng/dl of testosterone does more harm than good. No one really knows if this testosterone range is "healthy", all we know that vast majority of society falls into that range. Same majority that is obese, untrained, unhealthy, feel and look like shit.
 
I am way too smart to be told what to do by some moron with degree from university of shithole how much should I inject... and maybe trainer's client is too.

[ESFitness]

250 every 2 weeks should put him.. or anybody, at about 1200-1400 the first couple days and drop down to the high 700's by the time of the next shot.. within about 6-8 weeks, after the esters have had a chance to build up.

i.e. he should be fluctuating between 700-1400 over the span of two weeks.

a 100mg/wk dose should keep him steady at about 1000-1200.

[deceiver]

250 every 2 weeks should put him.. or anybody, at about 1200-1400 the first couple days and drop down to the high 700's by the time of the next shot.. within about 6-8 weeks, after the esters have had a chance to build up.

i.e. he should be fluctuating between 700-1400 over the span of two weeks.

a 100mg/wk dose should keep him steady at about 1000-1200.

Your numbers are little bit off. Do some research and fix them. Assuming you talk about testosterone cypionate/enanthate.

[Alpine]

Fuck doctors, fuck "optimal" range. There is zero research proving that overall, say, more than 800ng/dl of testosterone does more harm than good. No one really knows if this testosterone range is "healthy", all we know that vast majority of society falls into that range. Same majority that is obese, untrained, unhealthy, feel and look like shit.
 
I am way too smart to be told what to do by some moron with degree from university of shithole how much should I inject... and maybe trainer's client is too.

Running 500mg/wk indefinitely is most likely not healthy for your average joe who eats an average diet and doesnt do daily cardio. I do hear what you're saying tho and agree to some extent. And I'm a proponent of TRT and all males being on T once their levels become sub-optimal and they have started a family (if that's their desire). My point is this dipshit "trainer" should not interfere here, at least not yet. This client needs to comply and get his TRT program off the ground without any issues and then after a few months and the doctor is not taking as much blood work, he can play with dosages and get his own blood work done. The first few months the doctor may be fine tuning dosage and/or AI (or no AI) and he shouldnt come in there with a ng/dl that shows the doctor he's clearly taking other gear than what's being prescribed. Or worse, put him on higher AI or something because his E2 is off. The guy needs to find his baseline so he knows what to cruise back onto when he's done blasting. He needs to play the game, get optimized, then fine tune up later once he's not getting as much blood work done from his doctor. Right when he starts is not the time, that is my point.

There are plenty of guys like you who think they are smarter than the current medical community and validate their use (or abuse) of staying on damn near full size cycles year round. That is fine at 25. But when you are 40, you will shorten your life is your BP and lipids are out of control. I agree with you that "optimal" is fairly unknown and varies from person to person. But advice in this area should be conservative as a lot of people will harm their health with 500mg/wk + year round. I'm just over 30. I do more than TRT doses and I have ZERO delusions about the fact that I am probably increasing my odds of heart disease despite being healthy.

[the trainer]

Hey dipshit, how about you dont fuck up your clients TRT program. The whole point is to find a HEALTHY range that keeps him optimal. 500mg/week is not anywhere near natural range. At least while he's getting started and his doc is adjusting things, don't interfere.  250mg is a good dose, a lot of docs do much lower and work their way up to the lowest dose that reaches an "optimal" range based on repeated blood work.  You do realize his doctor will know something is not right if his serum levels came back much higher than 250mg can produce, right? You're just going to get your client dropped by the HRT clinic/doc and/or chastised.

You should get half a fucking brain and advise your "client" to get his TRT program started, focus on diet and training within the "optimal" natural range created by the recommended TRT. Let him get used to that and also COMPLY WITH HIS FUCKING DOCTOR for a few months. Otherwise his doc will never really nail down his optimal dose correctly. After 4-5 months, he can blast 500mg/wk or something for 8-12 weeks but he needs to be informed of all the ramifications. By then, they should have dialed him in and wont be taking his blood often. For being a trainer, you post horribly stupid shit all over this forum. Keep up the good work, meathead.

You're a trainer to average joes. Not a guru or a gear pusher. Start representing your profession a little better.

Did you read my post where did I talk about putting the guy on 500mg weekly I was thinking about 250mg weekly the guy wants to build muscle he is not trying to feel like a horny 18 year old kid. 

[Simple Simon]

Running 500mg/wk indefinitely is most likely not healthy for your average joe who eats an average diet and doesnt do daily cardio. I do hear what you're saying tho and agree to some extent. And I'm a proponent of TRT and all males being on T once their levels become sub-optimal and they have started a family (if that's their desire). My point is this dipshit "trainer" should not interfere here, at least not yet. This client needs to comply and get his TRT program off the ground without any issues and then after a few months and the doctor is not taking as much blood work, he can play with dosages and get his own blood work done. The first few months the doctor may be fine tuning dosage and/or AI (or no AI) and he shouldnt come in there with a ng/dl that shows the doctor he's clearly taking other gear than what's being prescribed. Or worse, put him on higher AI or something because his E2 is off. The guy needs to find his baseline so he knows what to cruise back onto when he's done blasting. He needs to play the game, get optimized, then fine tune up later once he's not getting as much blood work done from his doctor. Right when he starts is not the time, that is my point.

There are plenty of guys like you who think they are smarter than the current medical community and validate their use (or abuse) of staying on damn near full size cycles year round. That is fine at 25. But when you are 40, you will shorten your life is your BP and lipids are out of control. I agree with you that "optimal" is fairly unknown and varies from person to person. But advice in this area should be conservative as a lot of people will harm their health with 500mg/wk + year round. I'm just over 30. I do more than TRT doses and I have ZERO delusions about the fact that I am probably increasing my odds of heart disease despite being healthy.

Shut up.

[Alpine]

Did you read my post where did I talk about putting the guy on 500mg weekly I was thinking about 250mg weekly the guy wants to build muscle he is not trying to feel like a horny 18 year old kid.  

You said an EXTRA 250mg EO week on top of the 250mg Rxd. Still way high for what most medical professionals consider TRT.

Shut up.

Nice contribution.

[Simple Simon]

You said an EXTRA 250mg EO week on top of the 250mg Rxd.

Nice contribution.

So thats 500mgs every two weeks isnt it? 

[deceiver]

Running 500mg/wk indefinitely is most likely not healthy for your average joe who eats an average diet and doesnt do daily cardio. I do hear what you're saying tho and agree to some extent. And I'm a proponent of TRT and all males being on T once their levels become sub-optimal and they have started a family (if that's their desire). My point is this dipshit "trainer" should not interfere here, at least not yet. This client needs to comply and get his TRT program off the ground without any issues and then after a few months and the doctor is not taking as much blood work, he can play with dosages and get his own blood work done. The first few months the doctor may be fine tuning dosage and/or AI (or no AI) and he shouldnt come in there with a ng/dl that shows the doctor he's clearly taking other gear than what's being prescribed. Or worse, put him on higher AI or something because his E2 is off. The guy needs to find his baseline so he knows what to cruise back onto when he's done blasting. He needs to play the game, get optimized, then fine tune up later once he's not getting as much blood work done from his doctor. Right when he starts is not the time, that is my point.

There are plenty of guys like you who think they are smarter than the current medical community and validate their use (or abuse) of staying on damn near full size cycles year round. That is fine at 25. But when you are 40, you will shorten your life is your BP and lipids are out of control. I agree with you that "optimal" is fairly unknown and varies from person to person. But advice in this area should be conservative as a lot of people will harm their health with 500mg/wk + year round. I'm just over 30. I do more than TRT doses and I have ZERO delusions about the fact that I am probably increasing my odds of heart disease despite being healthy.

200mg/week here.

My lipids are perfect, WAY better than off. Actually TRT made my HDL go up to normal range. I am young but my testosterone was shit nevertheless. I don't abuse or go above 500mg/week, and even that is rare (I hate AI induced low-estro high-estro rollercoaster). I am planning to stay on that dosage and introduce some anavar or dianabol here and there, HGH at low dose for better sleep and regeneration and that's it.

I am fairly confident that I can sustain my "abuse" till late 60's given my genetics. And after that everyone is a trainwreck anyway so who gives a fuck.

But anyway, I agree with the first paragraph.

[the trainer]

You said an EXTRA 250mg EO week on top of the 250mg Rxd. Still way high for what most medical professionals consider TRT.

Nice contribution.

The doctor will inject him twice monthly so I was suggesting injecting an extra 250mg weekly on the off weeks so it would work out to 250mg every week.

[deceiver]

Any doctor who prescribes biweekly injections is a moron. Simple fact that 99% of doctors prescribe test like that goes to prove my original point: they have no idea what the fuck they are doing.

[Alpine]

200mg/week here.

My lipids are perfect, WAY better than off. Actually TRT made my HDL go up to normal range. I am young but my testosterone was shit nevertheless. I don't abuse or go above 500mg/week, and even that is rare (I hate AI induced low-estro high-estro rollercoaster). I am planning to stay on that dosage and introduce some anavar or dianabol here and there, HGH at low dose for better sleep and regeneration and that's it.

I am fairly confident that I can sustain my "abuse" till late 60's given my genetics. And after that everyone is a trainwreck anyway so who gives a fuck.

But anyway, I agree with the first paragraph.

I'd call that conservative and you do sound health conscience. I "abuse" more than you do.

Any doctor who prescribes biweekly injections is a moron. Simple fact that 99% of doctors prescribe test like that goes to prove my original point: they have no idea what the fuck they are doing.

I also agree bi-weekly is bad. I think part of it originates not from their complete lack of understanding that its not optimal in terms of serum levels, but because some clinics/ins. carriers require that THEY administer the shot and they are trying to cut down on the times the patient has to come in and be inconvenienced. Some people are lucky enough to get the script and do their own shots. I know some have to literally come in and get it done which would be a pain. Most people also have major issues with shots too and its a big deal to take one EO week versus every week. People like us will willingly break it up 2x a week just to keep serum levels more even but that's a different breed.

[deceiver]

I'd call that conservative and you do sound health conscience. I "abuse" more than you do.

I also agree bi-weekly is bad. I think part of it originates not from their complete lack of understanding that its not optimal in terms of serum levels, but because some clinics/ins. carriers require that THEY administer the shot and they are trying to cut down on the times the patient has to come in and be inconvenienced. Some people are lucky enough to get the script and do their own shots. I know some have to literally come in and get it done which would be a pain. Most people also have major issues with shots too and its a big deal to take one EO week versus every week. People like us will willingly break it up 2x a week just to keep serum levels more even but that's a different breed.

That's exactly why I wonder why would anyone bother with script from a doctor. You can do bloods on your own and pay for them yourself which should be cheap (at least in Poland it is affordable) and risk is negligible. I mean cmon, would they really bust you for buying 50ml of test? And this should do for more than a year.

[Papper]

well, if a 40yr old man tears his ACL or Achilles, does the doctor say? "well, that's natural.. you're not an athlete so you won't need it anyway. we're not gonna do surgery and fix it.. deal with it" ?

doesn't matter if the guy is 25, 45 or 65, low testosterone affects quality of life, and it's treatable.. why wouldn't you treat it?

if it's abnormally low for his age I understand the doctor

just going by the discussion it seemed like he just wanted to "feel young again"

[ESFitness]

Your numbers are little bit off. Do some research and fix them. Assuming you talk about testosterone cypionate/enanthate.

I don't need to do any further research. I'm speaking from personal experience, experience of customers, and clients.

3 days after a 200mg shot of cyp and I'm at 1400, 12 days later I'm at 800 or so, plus or minus 50-75.

explain what I need to 'fix'.

[A Righteous Sort]

250 every 2 weeks should put him.. or anybody, at about 1200-1400 the first couple days and drop down to the high 700's by the time of the next shot.. within about 6-8 weeks, after the esters have had a chance to build up.

i.e. he should be fluctuating between 700-1400 over the span of two weeks.

a 100mg/wk dose should keep him steady at about 1000-1200.

Useful information on this board for once.

You can build a good or even great body (well maybe not to the monsters on this board) on 250/week if you have solid genetics, train hard, eat decently, etc
250/week is ideal Imo maybe even less

[honest]

I don't need to do any further research. I'm speaking from personal experience, experience of customers, and clients.

3 days after a 200mg shot of cyp and I'm at 1400, 12 days later I'm at 800 or so, plus or minus 50-75.

explain what I need to 'fix'.

My own use would back this up and his other statements. Above normal testosterone in non competitive people who train is not ideal. Sure it depends on the individual and their genetic predisposition to any type of related disease, but there is negatives associated with its use.

[honest]

have your test levels recovered

Yes but it took 12 months, still on the low side of average

[vascsurgeon]

The reality is:
The correct dosage for an individual is one that keeps free Test numbers normal.
When free Test is abnormally high all that happens is the negative side effects. Estrogen increase, hematocrit, DHT etc... A proper weekly dose will raise Test levels to consistently be between 800 to 1100, above that is a waste in regard to health and well being.
Say and think what you like, but, that is the truth.
Hope this helps.

[Alpine]

The reality is:
The correct dosage for an individual is one that keeps free Test numbers normal.
When free Test is abnormally high all that happens is the negative side effects. Estrogen increase, hematocrit, DHT etc... A proper weekly dose will raise Test levels to consistently be between 800 to 1100, above that is a waste in regard to health and well being.
Say and think what you like, but, that is the truth.
Hope this helps.

This was the point I was trying to make. There is a "healthy" range and its not very high. Most really good docs will start you at a very low test dose and work you up to get you in the range with the lowest possible dose. The word TRT gets thrown around for people administering 300mg/wk of Test and its just not accurate.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

TRT won't put on size, but it will sure as fuck maintain it.

[ESFitness]

TRT won't put on size, but it will sure as fuck maintain it.

it will put size on a person who's test is normally sub-100.

before hrt I was 185/190 down from a high of 240-247 (in '04), went on hrt 200mg every 2 weeks or 300mg every 3 weeks in '06 and maintained 230 from 06-2011. that's a 40lb bump in bw just from bringing my test levels from <100 to 800-1200.... granted my bf was about double at 230 than it was at 247 juiced.

[Mawse]

200mg/week here.

My lipids are perfect, WAY better than off. Actually TRT made my HDL go up to normal range. I am young but my testosterone was shit nevertheless. I don't abuse or go above 500mg/week, and even that is rare (I hate AI induced low-estro high-estro rollercoaster). I am planning to stay on that dosage and introduce some anavar or dianabol here and there, HGH at low dose for better sleep and regeneration and that's it.

I am fairly confident that I can sustain my "abuse" till late 60's given my genetics. And after that everyone is a trainwreck anyway so who gives a fuck.

But anyway, I agree with the first paragraph.

200 is also my prescribed dose, I gave a great doc who goes by the absolute top level of "normal" range. Everything else is good unless I use adex, which is bad for my hdl.

I add in some low dose mast and npp when "on"

[gracie bjj]

lately ive been using prop n masteron for my TRT, reason being is i ran out of enanthate n havent gotten around to ordering more. i do 50cc of masteron n 50cc of prop in same syringe every 3 days n its working OK, its just a pain in the ass doing the every 3 days shot insted of the 7 to 10 days shot of enanthate