Author Topic: Barbell Row standing on Bench  (Read 8509 times)

Coach is Back!

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2014, 07:49:54 AM »
Are you just setting out to deliberately fuck up peoples backs?
That ridiculous video last week of people sitting down and rolling their spines about whilst squatting , now this bullshit.
Bending over at the waist alone puts a hell of a lot of strain on the low back due to just the weight of your head, now to add an extreme extension and fuck around lifting weights whilst in full extension is idiotic in the extreme.

I seriously wonder if you are just trolling here.

I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 08:29:16 AM »
I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.
If I recall the thread correctly others commented negatively on your approach, it wasnt just me who thought you were being reckless in your application.

As for the rest of your post you now seem to be of the opinion that box rows are not all that great.

Trolling?
Yep, you probably were.

Thing is trolling when giving out advice as a trainer is dumb to say the least.


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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2014, 08:45:39 AM »
If I recall the thread correctly others commented negatively on your approach, it wasnt just me who thought you were being reckless in your application.

As for the rest of your post you now seem to be of the opinion that box rows are not all that great.

Trolling?
Yep, you probably were.

Thing is trolling when giving out advice as a trainer is dumb to say the least.



People commenting on a lift they know NOTHING about is hardly worth paying attention to but I did. There were also several others that posted in the thread that know how to lift and are familiar with that lift as well as understanding the benefits of the lift. You see something (as others did) made a negative comment without even so much as knowing how to do, the mechanics nor the benefits. We've been going these for almost 8 years without an incident. Here, you might want to educate yourself because your knowledge is obviously limited..



http://www.westside-barbell.com/index.php/the-westside-barbell-university/articles-by-louie-simmons/articles-published-in-2005/378-box-squatting-benefits


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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2014, 09:04:05 AM »
I don't do these with clients. I prefer other rows. Don't go there with the box squat, you were owned to oblivion on this last week. If people actually knew how to train you can do almost any exercise without fucking yourself up. Most are so used to training on machines they know of know other way. Train mostly on machines then go try and do the same movement on free weights....that's what will fuck you up.

coach i think your a bright guy but I must ask what roll do box squats play in the mastery of a young american football player or track athlete? Attaining a high level in football requires a strong neck girdle, strong delta, triceps, and posterior chain.  At the end of the day these kids are athletes not powerlifters, and all  that matters is that the strength is developed in the muscles...whether this was achieved with a leg press, belt squat, front squat, back squat, or box squat is irrelevant.
l

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2014, 09:07:56 AM »
coach i think your a bright guy but I must ask what roll do box squats play in the mastery of a young american football player or track athlete? Attaining a high level in football requires a strong neck girdle, strong delta, triceps, and posterior chain.  At the end of the day these kids are athletes not powerlifters, and all  that matters is that the strength is developed in the muscles...whether this was achieved with a leg press, belt squat, front squat, back squat, or box squat is irrelevant.


Maybe I'm lost here. This post made no sense.

HonestBob

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2014, 09:14:35 AM »

Maybe I'm lost here. This post made no sense.

English is clearly his third language.

Back to training, I don't like box squats because I think they are too dangerous.  So I would always opt for squatting to pins.

What do you see as the advantages to box squatting vs squatting to pins?  Possibily easier to disengage the hips, but if you do it right (wide stance, external rotation, knees not travelling too far over knees) you'll get the glute activation you're looking for.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2014, 09:47:02 AM »
English is clearly his third language.

Back to training, I don't like box squats because I think they are too dangerous.  So I would always opt for squatting to pins.

What do you see as the advantages to box squatting vs squatting to pins?  Possibily easier to disengage the hips, but if you do it right (wide stance, external rotation, knees not travelling too far over knees) you'll get the glute activation you're looking for.

For our purposes, the box squat is ideal. We can ensure depth, going with a wide stance hits the entire posterior chain as long as the lifter keeps his/her feet forward and sitting you really never disengage hips, with a load, especially a heavy load, it's really impossible. When we teach it, we always cue to the mid-section tight as well as inhaling through the nose on the eccentric and exhaling on the concentric. Wide stance, you never see an athlete stand with a narrow stance, it's an athletic stance, knees bent, feet wide.

With wide receivers, RB's, Tight ends or general skills positions, we use pins once in a while but not as a general rule or staple in our main lifts.

Back the sitting part of the lift. Even with our general clientele, we do a ton of posterior chain work to prevent any low back or knee injuries on the main lifts. On an average, we hit posterior chain at least three days per week. Remember what the conjugate system consists of....the supplemental lifts reinforce the main lifts. In the first video that I posted of Louie teaching the box squat, he said he brought a tight end down from a 5.1 40 to a 4.7 without even running him. I can attest to that with my own athletes, the difference is, I run my athletes. Now, I could careless about an athletes 40 time, I'm more interested in their 10 yard splits and first steps.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2014, 09:53:26 AM »
Back is the one muscle group for which machines can be superior to free weights.

The pull up is great exercise, but you're essentially stuck with one weight, your bodyweight. The lat pull down machine offers more versatility and control.

With barbell rows, range of motion is limited by the bar. Plus, the aforementioned lower back risks. Low cable rows with a rope handle pretty much solves those problems.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2014, 10:00:26 AM »
;)

That must have been a light back day.



He was a total mad man!

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2014, 01:56:27 PM »
I like to position myself upon the highest apparatus in the gym when performing any movement.

Simple Simon

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2014, 02:00:40 PM »
I like to position myself upon the highest apparatus in the gym when performing any movement.

 ;D

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2014, 02:36:43 PM »
Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.

Simple Simon

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2014, 02:48:01 PM »
Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.
leaning that far over you may as well do chins or lat pulldowns

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2014, 02:54:41 PM »
Kids do box squats to cut the rom and ego lift too much weight, end of story.

Worthless lift for raw plers, bbers and anyone not squatting a mile wide out of a mono in multiply

I wish I'd never done the lift and kept up with full high bar Oly squats, paused or otherwise. Chances are my back would be in much better shape today

Bench rows with a rounded back like in that Franco photo are beyond retarded

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2014, 02:56:34 PM »
 ^^^^ Well there you have it, "end of story". lol

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2014, 05:29:36 PM »
Are you just setting out to deliberately fuck up peoples backs?
That ridiculous video last week of people sitting down and rolling their spines about whilst squatting , now this bullshit.
Bending over at the waist alone puts a hell of a lot of strain on the low back due to just the weight of your head, now to add an extreme extension and fuck around lifting weights whilst in full extension is idiotic in the extreme.

I seriously wonder if you are just trolling here.

"coach" left after Obama won re-election.  He gave his account away.  The difference in writing styles is pretty apparent.

Coach is Back!

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2014, 06:30:58 PM »
"coach" left after Obama won re-election.  He gave his account away.  The difference in writing styles is pretty apparent.

You've been slipping lately. Your posts have been making about as much sense as flintstones posts.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2014, 07:28:14 PM »
Barbell rows off a bench are stupid IMHO.

The thing is, someone as intelligent and as thoughtful/inventive when it came to training, Arnold Schwarzenegger, believed in barbell rows of off benches. He had basically all of the same options as we had today but he still used these as his primary row(as far as I'm aware of). Even if not, he still used them frequently.  If someone like Arnold came to the conclusion this rowing movement/technique was a superior form of the row, then why aren't more people doing them today.  

wild willie

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2014, 07:46:54 PM »
That must have been a light back day.



He was a total mad man!

JUST FOR PICS IN THE MAGS......I TALKED WITH JERRY BRAINUM.......HE TOLD ME ARNOLD TRAINED WITH MODERATE POUNDAGE......FRANCO TRAINED HEAVY BUT ARNOLD WAS MORE OF A FEEL KIND OF GUY.

185 FOR BB ROWS AND 50 POUNDS FOR DB CURLS.

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2014, 07:51:23 PM »
The thing is, someone as intelligent and as thoughtful/inventive when it came to training, Arnold Schwarzenegger, believed in barbell rows of off benches. He had basically all of the same options as we had today but he still used these as his primary row(as far as I'm aware of). Even if not, he still used them frequently.  If someone like Arnold came to the conclusion this rowing movement/technique was a superior form of the row, then why aren't more people doing them today.  

This what is what I seriously believe and I know I'm going to get railed for this. I believe most people now a days are lazy and find it easier to train more on machines than with free weight. It takes almost no effort to stick a pin in a selecorized machine and less effort to move the weight up, down, back and forth. Don't get me wrong , they had some machines back then but free weight was still king. You didn't see as many back injuries doing a Bent row because (wether they knew it or not) training with the free weight allowed more strength to be developed in the non-primary movers recruiting more motor units and being naturally stronger than bodybuilders of today.  

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2014, 01:03:47 AM »
Better options.

Joe, I know this is a broad question and you're lacking context that can help you give good answers, but generally, which back exercises are the best to help alleviate chronic recurring lower-back pain?

P.S.: I'm hoping the answer isn't "deadlifts".

kreator

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2014, 01:26:23 AM »
That must have been a light back day.



He was a total mad man!


he was a tool and was lucky he didn't snap something

NotMrAverage

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2014, 01:26:50 AM »
Total waste of time. People used to do stiff legged Deadlifts like this too... talk about dangerous for your lower back.

Did stiffs like this. I cringe thinking about it. No need to go that low
MIRAGETROPIN

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2014, 01:54:18 AM »
Did stiffs like this. I cringe thinking about it. No need to go that low
I agree. look at Arnold on the Picture Standing on a fairly narrow bench(very risky concentrating on Balance when you should be concentrating on your back Position). A lot of People do Pendlay rows now too having the back Horizontal and resting the weight between reps. I like Holding my Body above parallel and doing a Standard barbell row and Standing on the floor. Stiff Deads i would never go lower than say mid shin. At least i never see "Good Mornings" anymore...a terrible exercise, in my humble opinion.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Barbell Row standing on Bench
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2014, 02:38:39 AM »
JUST FOR PICS IN THE MAGS......I TALKED WITH JERRY BRAINUM.......HE TOLD ME ARNOLD TRAINED WITH MODERATE POUNDAGE......FRANCO TRAINED HEAVY BUT ARNOLD WAS MORE OF A FEEL KIND OF GUY.

185 FOR BB ROWS AND 50 POUNDS FOR DB CURLS.

To get to that position, by himself, he would've had to stand behind the rack, unrack the bar and walk to the end of the bench, barefoot, carrying 315lbs. To put the bar back, he would have to walk backwards with the weight.