Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own

[Archer77]

Ya know, what is it about these guys that makes them "the worst"?  Superpowers?  Clairvoyance?  What?

Will the terrorists be measurably stronger because of these 5 guys? I'd like to hear something that seems reasonable that supports that.  Did these 5 guys ever even come before a judge?  If they're the worst, why not? 

Convince me that these 5 guys are capable of doing stuff that the other umpteen gazillion terrorists can't and maybe I'll think about your question.

These men had achieved respectable ranks within their terrorist organization and therefore would have greater knowledge pertinent to US interests .  Doesn't that fact in itself prove they were more valuable than the typical low ranking goat herder? 

[Soul Crusher]

These men had achieved respectable ranks within their terrorist organization and therefore would have greater knowledge pertinent to US interests .  Doesn't that fact in itself prove they were more valuable than the typical low ranking goat herder? 

The cultists who worship obama could care less.   That the taliban wanted these 5 specific most means nothing to the average obama slave. 

[Archer77]

The cultists who worship obama could care less.   That the taliban wanted these 5 specific most means nothing to the average obama slave.  

Youre absolutely right. Great point. The fact that the taliban wanted these specific men means a whole lot in terms of their importance.

[RRKore]

Youre absolutely right. Great point. The fact that the taliban wanted these specific men means a whole lot in terms of their importance.

Oh, for reals?  So, I guess the fact that the USA wanted Bergdahl back must mean he's super-important to the fight against the Taliban?  lol

Think, mofo, think!

[Archer77]

Oh, for reals?  So, I guess the fact that the USA wanted Bergdahl back must mean he's super-important to the fight against the Taliban?  lol

Think, mofo, think!

The white house was possibly looking for cover in order to avoid criticism for releasing these men.  There are reports that the deal was in the works before Bergdahl was part of the swap.  Unfortunately the white house was either completely ignorant of Bergdahls murky past,  when they clearly shouldnt have, or they intentionally misrepresented Bergdahls character and story for propaganda purposes. You're left with two options,  incompetence or manipulation. It seems likely they assumed no one would criticize the release of these terrorist if a soldier was also released.  Anyone doing so would be branded unpatriotic.  Sounds like some shady Bush tactics.

Think, mofo.  Stop being a partisan water carrier.
  

[LurkerNoMore]

Oh, for reals?  So, I guess the fact that the USA wanted Bergdahl back must mean he's super-important to the fight against the Taliban?  lol

Think, mofo, think!

You might be asking a bit too much.

On the flip side, seeing how these five most likely have drone strikes penciled into their futures, I think it is a good thing their wanted them back so badly.  Now we get more bodies for the bang so to speak. 

[RRKore]

These men had achieved respectable ranks within their terrorist organization and therefore would have greater knowledge pertinent to US interests . 

...

Greater knowledge pertinent to US interests?  That sounds like you're saying these guys had/have knowledge that would help the US.  

And this might be so but do ya seriously think that we haven't already extracted all that info from them in the 12 years these guys have been imprisoned?  (All 5 were captured in 2001 or 2002.)  

Or do you think they've just been hanging out at Guantanamo watching HBO, or what?

Doesn't that fact in itself prove they were more valuable than the typical low ranking goat herder?  

LOL.  (So if one is more valuable than a goat herder, you keep them indefinitely?)

Anyway, the key word here is: "were"

[RRKore]

The white house was possibly looking for cover in order to avoid criticism for releasing these men.  There are reports that the deal was in the works before Bergdahl was part of the swap.  Unfortunately the white house was either completely ignorant of Bergdahls murky past,  when they clearly shouldnt have, or they intentionally misrepresented Bergdahls character and story for propaganda purposes. You're left with two options,  incompetence or manipulation. It seems likely they assumed no one would criticize the release of these terrorist if a soldier was also released.  Anyone doing so would be branded unpatriotic.  Sounds like some shady Bush tactics.

Think, mofo.  Stop being a partisan water carrier.
  

Bergdahl is/was an American soldier held against his will for years by terrorists.  He deserved to be freed.  (And then investigated or court martialed or whatever, sure.)

Bad PR or not, who gives a fuck?  He deserved to be freed.

[Archer77]

Greater knowledge pertinent to US interests?  That sounds like you're saying these guys had/have knowledge that would help the US.  

And this might be so but do ya seriously think that we haven't already extracted all that info from them in the 12 years these guys have been imprisoned?  (All 5 were captured in 2001 or 2002.)  

Or do you think they've just been hanging out at Guantanamo watching HBO, or what?

LOL.  (So if one is more valuable than a goat herder, you keep them indefinitely?)

Anyway, the key word here is: "were"

The terrorists are still valuable as they understand the inner workings of the taliban. Their knowledge is useful for multiple situations not just those they were directly involved in.

[Archer77]

Bergdahl is/was an American soldier held against his will for years by terrorists.  He deserved to be freed.  (And then investigated or court martialed or whatever, sure.)

Bad PR or not, who gives a fuck?  He deserved to be freed.

Sounds like the party line.  Youre fine with being manipulated and lied to if its your team doing it.  Some of us can't live that way.

[LurkerNoMore]

Seeing how the Taliban has been bombed, blitzed and scrambled with the deaths of many leaders and high ranking Lts, I think it is pretty obvious - or at least it should be pretty obvious to anyone with common sense - that these five people have NO useful knowledge of the current state of their affairs.

Are you suggesting that someone that has been imprisoned for over a decade knows more about that group than the US does currently?  How did they obtain this knowledge after being separated for over 10 years?  Their comrades send up smoke signals to them?  Carrier pigeons?  Email perhaps?  Maybe the new Taliban sent this info to them via whispered secrets during conjugal visits?

Any "situations" they may know about - whether involved directly in or not - have long since been disrupted, executed, or abandoned.  

Whining is ok.  Going out on a limb to justify your whining is ok - and quite expected from the peanut gallery here - but whining in the complete absence of common sense is just laughable.   Come back and do better at least.

[Archer77]

Seeing how the Taliban has been bombed, blitzed and scrambled with the deaths of many leaders and high ranking Lts, I think it is pretty obvious - or at least it should be pretty obvious to anyone with common sense - that these five people have NO useful knowledge of the current state of their affairs.

Are you suggesting that someone that has been imprisoned for over a decade knows more about that group than the US does currently?  How did they obtain this knowledge after being separated for over 10 years?  Their comrades send up smoke signals to them?  Carrier pigeons?  Email perhaps?  Maybe the new Taliban sent this info to them via whispered secrets during conjugal visits?

Any "situations" they may know about - whether involved directly in or not - have long since been disrupted, executed, or abandoned.  

Whining is ok.  Going out on a limb to justify your whining is ok - and quite expected from the peanut gallery here - but whining in the complete absence of common sense is just laughable.   Come back and do better at least.

Id like some evidence for the taliban no longer being a threat.   Im trying to have a genuine discuss while you repeat the party.   Id say try better next time but you dont even seem to be trying. 

[RRKore]

Sounds like the party line.  Youre fine with being manipulated and lied to if its your team doing it.  Some of us can't live that way.

Dude, honestly, how am I being manipulated?; No matter what Bergdahl did to get himself held captive by terrorists, the dumbfuck deserved to be freed.  To have any other policy would be retarded in an all-volunteer army.  

Your "my team" stuff is off-base.  I was active army for 4 years so I'd feel the same way no matter which president was in power.

And you "can't live that way"?  Oh, quit with the melodrama because, holy hyperbole batman, I think you ARE living that way -- you're just saying you don't like something (which is fine, really).

[flipper5470]

Right the Taliban is no longer a threat...Al Qaeda was "no longer a threat" until they launched their attack on the consulate in Benghazi.    Why anyone would take the analysis of this administration at face value is beyond  me.   

[Archer77]

Dude, honestly, how am I being manipulated?; No matter what Bergdahl did to get himself held captive by terrorists, the dumbfuck deserved to be freed.  To have any other policy would be retarded in an all-volunteer army.  

Your "my team" stuff is off-base.  I was active army for 4 years so I'd feel the same way no matter which president was in power.

And you "can't live that way"?  Oh, quit with the melodrama because, holy hyperbole batman, I think you ARE living that way -- you're just saying you don't like something (which is fine, really).

Dont play the I'm offended becuse I was in the military card.  I was also in the military. As I stated earlier,  Its either utter incompetence and ignorance or manipulation.  The administration either didnt know about bergdahls past( they should have)or they intentionally withheld the information in order to profit off the rescued soldier angle, providing cover from scrutiny.   They might very well have known about Bergdahls murky particulars but assumed the public and media would be hesitant to raise objections in fear of being called unpatriotic.  

[RRKore]

Id like some evidence for the taliban no longer being a threat.   Im trying to have a genuine discuss while you repeat the party.   Id say try better next time but you dont even seem to be trying. 

I don't think he's saying that the Taliban isn't currently (at least some kind of) a threat.  I think he's saying that after 12 years of being out of the loop while being imprisoned, these 5 terrorists won't have much to offer their cause. 

That seems reasonable and he's not the only one saying that:

The release of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl this weekend was greeted at first by elation. But among some, the positive feelings have given way to more mixed emotions as some of the worrying implications of his release become clear.

One big concern is that the U.S. will be releasing five Taliban commanders in exchange for Bergdahl. So who are these men? And what might they do  when released?

When the five Taliban commanders were detained by the United States, the American war here had only just begun. Though most of them held high-profile positions in the Taliban regime, they had little experience in the protracted insurgency that followed the American invasion. The Taliban to which they will return looks much different from the one they were torn from.

A decade or more later, they could be seen as martyrs, buoyed by the sacrifices made for the group’s cause and their role in its formation, or, alternatively, perhaps as men unfamiliar with the Taliban’s new mission – the 13th year of trying to destabilize the Afghan government.

In the years that the five detainees spent at Guantanamo, the Taliban mission has evolved in large and small ways, from shifts in roadside bomb construction to changes in the geography of the battlefield. It is unclear what role they will play in the current fight when they leave Qatar in 12 months.

Are their years-old Al Qaeda links still relevant? Could their experience be used as a recruitment tool?  U.S. officials considered those questions before the prisoner exchange, but there are no conclusive answers. They could again ascend the insurgency’s ranks, or they could be marginalized as outsiders by new leadership.


More of this even-handed article here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/02/bowe-bergdahl-was-traded-for-5-taliban-commanders-heres-who-they-are/

[RRKore]

The terrorists are still valuable as they understand the inner workings of the taliban. Their knowledge is useful for multiple situations not just those they were directly involved in.

You are guessing, I think.

[Archer77]

Are their years-old Al Qaeda links still relevant? Could their experience be used as a recruitment tool?  U.S. officials considered those questions before the prisoner exchange, but there are no conclusive answers. They could again ascend the insurgency’s ranks, or they could be marginalized as outsiders by new leadership."


This the most pertinent portion of the article.   The terrorists wete released without a clear understanding of the consequences.   As I've made clear, my personal objection is mainly with the presentation of Bergdahl to the public. If reports are true and the deal was already in the works before Bergdahl, this can only mean that Bergdahl was being used as cover from scrutiny.

[LurkerNoMore]

Id like some evidence for the taliban no longer being a threat.   Im trying to have a genuine discuss while you repeat the party.   Id say try better next time but you dont even seem to be trying.  

Did I say the Taliban was no longer a threat?

No, I said :

Seeing how the Taliban has been bombed, blitzed and scrambled with the deaths of many leaders and high ranking Lts, I think it is pretty obvious - or at least it should be pretty obvious to anyone with common sense - that these five people have NO useful knowledge of the current state of their affairs.

Are you suggesting that someone that has been imprisoned for over a decade knows more about that group than the US does currently?  How did they obtain this knowledge after being separated for over 10 years?  Their comrades send up smoke signals to them?  Carrier pigeons?  Email perhaps?  Maybe the new Taliban sent this info to them via whispered secrets during conjugal visits?

Any "situations" they may know about - whether involved directly in or not - have long since been disrupted, executed, or abandoned.  

You made the claim that these men could have direct knowledge of the inner workings of the current Taliban structure.  I challenged that claim you made by presenting the fact that these men have been in isolation from the current Taliban for over 10  years and asked you how they possibly could know anything about the current regimen.  

So instead of backing your stupid ass claim up with evidence or even more inane ramblings that are on the same topic, you would rather try to change the topic and make it about another topic all together by asking me a question completely unrelated to anything I posted about.  In other words, you ain't got shit.

Again : PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DETAINEE OF OVER 10 YEARS COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM ALL CONTACT WITH HIS FORMER COMRADES WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF "THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE CURRENT TALIBAN AND MULTIPLE SITUATIONS THAT THEY WERE NOT EVEN DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN"  (your words and claim)

[Archer77]

Did I say the Taliban was no longer a threat?

No, I said :


You made the claim that these men could have direct knowledge of the inner workings of the current Taliban structure.  I challenged that claim you made by presenting the fact that these men have been in isolation from the current Taliban for over 10  years and asked you how they possibly could know anything about the current regimen.  

So instead of back your stupid ass claim up with evidence or even inane ramblings that are on the same topic, you would rather try to change the topic and make it about another topic all together by asking me a question completely unrelated to anything I posted about.  In other words, you ain't got shit.

Again : PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DETAINEE OF OVER 10 YEARS COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM ALL CONTACT WITH HIS FORMER COMRADES WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF "THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE CURRENT TALIBAN AND MULTIPLE SITUATIONS THAT THEY WERE NOT EVEN DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN"  (your words and claim)

I never used the word current.    Anyone with knowledge of an organization is useful.

[Archer77]

Did I say the Taliban was no longer a threat?

No, I said :


You made the claim that these men could have direct knowledge of the inner workings of the current Taliban structure.  I challenged that claim you made by presenting the fact that these men have been in isolation from the current Taliban for over 10  years and asked you how they possibly could know anything about the current regimen.  

So instead of backing your stupid ass claim up with evidence or even more inane ramblings that are on the same topic, you would rather try to change the topic and make it about another topic all together by asking me a question completely unrelated to anything I posted about.  In other words, you ain't got shit.

Again : PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DETAINEE OF OVER 10 YEARS COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM ALL CONTACT WITH HIS FORMER COMRADES WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF "THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE CURRENT TALIBAN AND MULTIPLE SITUATIONS THAT THEY WERE NOT EVEN DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN"  (your words and claim)

I didnt change the subject.  Dont have hurt feelings.  This is suppose to be a good natured discussion.

[LurkerNoMore]

I don't think he's saying that the Taliban isn't currently (at least some kind of) a threat.  I think he's saying that after 12 years of being out of the loop while being imprisoned, these 5 terrorists won't have much to offer their cause. 

That seems reasonable and he's not the only one saying that:

Exactly.  But don't expect an answer from him.  He's proven that he just pulls statements out of his ass in an effort to deflect from having to comment on anything you challenge him with over his previous statements/claims.  

 

Fox News trainee right here.  

[Archer77]

Exactly.  But don't expect an answer from him.  He's proven that he just pulls statements out of his ass in an effort to deflect from having to comment on anything you challenge him with over his previous statements/claims.  

 

Fox News trainee right here.  

See, thats what im talking about.  Guys like you see the world in black and white.  If I dont agree with you I must be a fox news watching righty.  Im sorry to tell you this but the world is far more complicated

[LurkerNoMore]

I didnt change the subject.  Dont have hurt feelings.  This is suppose to be a good natured discussion.

Yeah.  You tried to.

Want to keep backpedaling or want to explain your previous Einstein-ish claim.  Here just to save a bit of brainwattage for you, I will repeat it.

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DETAINEE OF OVER 10 YEARS COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM ALL CONTACT WITH HIS FORMER COMRADES WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF "THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE CURRENT TALIBAN AND MULTIPLE SITUATIONS THAT THEY WERE NOT EVEN DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN"  (your words and claim)

Have fun.  Gotta run to Publix for more BBQ sauce for the cookout I'm doing today.  Will check back and see how what weak excuse you offer up.  If any.  Most likely will not address your own statement and instead ignore it, hoping everyone else does too.  

[RRKore]

Dont play the I'm offended becuse I was in the military card.  I was also in the military. As I stated earlier,  Its either utter incompetence and ignorance or manipulation.  The administration either didnt know about bergdahls past( they should have)or they intentionally withheld the information in order to profit off the rescued soldier angle, providing cover from scrutiny.   They might very well have known about Bergdahls murky particulars but assumed the public and media would be hesitant to raise objections in fear of being called unpatriotic.  

I'm not playing any military cred card.  I'm saying that as former military it's always been my opinion that if a soldier is being held by enemy forces, you do all you can to free him.  And you DON'T first make sure his record is clean.  Do you get this?

Be clear here, please.  Are you saying that Bergdahl should not have been freed because of allegations of his desertion?

Was the gov't trying to milk this situation for good PR?  Duh, par for the course. 

But, I've gotta say that getting your panties in a twist about it is to seem near laughably ignorant of how innocuous this situation is compared to other military situations in the not-so-distant past.  Remember Jessica Lynch?  Shit, remember Pat Tillman? 

If you wanna freak out about "being lied to and manipulated" you should probably do it about something more substantial than goofy Bergdahl's conscience and lack of good sense causing him to desert in Afghanistan, imo.

Any of this make sense?