Impeccable Logic by John Meadows re protein synthesis.

[Alpine]

Is John a pro bb?

He does not have his pro card. He's like 42 and making a final run at it now. He's a well respected trainer though and has a lot of credibility behind him. He's always been dense and grainy as hell, I am not sure how he didnt get a card while someone like Shelby Starnes did (not a slam). JM trains (or has trained) Antoine Vaillant, Matt Kroc, Dugdale, Amit Sapir, Brandon Lily (PL) just to name a few more well known guys.

[Man of Steel]

He does not have his pro card. He's like 42 and making a final run at it now. He's a well respected trainer though and has a lot of credibility behind him. He's always been dense and grainy as hell, I am not sure how he didnt get a card while someone like Shelby Starnes did (not a slam). JM trains (or has trained) Antoine Vaillant, Matt Kroc, Dugdale, Amit Sapir, Brandon Lily (PL) just to name a few more well known guys.

So without sounding insulting, John is a guru/expert trainer in bb that never made it as a pro, but he's giving it one more good shot at becoming one......hope he lives the dream!!!

[Alpine]

So without sounding insulting, John is a guru/expert trainer in bb that never made it as a pro, but he's giving it one more good shot at becoming one......hope he lives the dream!!!

If you google his images you will see he's no stranger to freaky physique and contest condition. There really seems to be no great reason why he hasnt got a pro card. His physique certainly warrants it imo.



This is from this past weekend. 5 weeks out. 235 in pic. 42 years old

[ProudVirgin69]

As for Leucine, its HIGHLY insulinogenic which a lot of people dont realize. Its like consuming pure glucose (actually moreso)

Although it is certainly insulinogenic, it is not comparable to glucose otherwise you would go hypoglycemic after consuming nothing but leucine

[ProudVirgin69]

If you google his images you will see he's no stranger to freaky physique and contest condition. There really seems to be no great reason why he hasnt got a pro card. His physique certainly warrants it imo.



This is from this past weekend. 5 weeks out. 235 in pic. 42 years old

Find pictures of him on stage and i think you'll see why.  His physique, although ripped & muscular, is not aesthetically pleasing

[Alpine]

Find pictures of him on stage and i think you'll see why.  His physique, although ripped & muscular, is not aesthetically pleasing

The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training.

2012 North Americans

2012 Masters Nationals

[deceiver]

The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training. using insane amounts of drugs.

2012 North Americans

2012 Masters Nationals

Fixed for the truth.

[ProudVirgin69]

The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training.

Agreed, he's easily the hardest training bodybuilder around. 

[Alpine]

Fixed for the truth.

I dont get your attack on JM?  Because he cited one rat study to support a point? I can tell you from his videos, site and radio show he is NOT a proponent of huge doses and none of his top clients are either.  Everyone at that level runs the same basic amounts anyway. What separates people is genetics, diet and work ethic.  He talks often about the misconception of how more drugs leads to freakier physiques when in reality, there is a point of diminishing returns to pure drug use in terms of dose. You will feel shitty on mega mega doses and this is sub-optimal for peak eating and training patterns. He is a huge health guy too, his diet is extremely clean and he talks about controlling lipids and BP often.

Seriously, who the fuck is deceiver?  

[Big Chiro Flex]

He was the same guy Bostin was using prior to Palumbo?

No that's another guy named John something...can't remember his last name. Known for insane drug doses.

[Alpine]

No that's another guy named John something...can't remember his last name. Known for insane drug doses.

You're thinking of John O'Regan. He IS known for recommending his athletes eat MASSIVE amounts of food (force feedings) and massive dosages with GH and peptide use at the same time (ghrp6 to increase hunger). He's responsible for Dallas McCarver's rapid gains and pro status. Also worked with Caprice Murray, Trigili and Cody Lewis. He worked with Bostin and recommended the same. Now he is one trainer who is well known to recommend a blunt force all out approach.

Bostin's tell all video about O'regan and McCarver stated:
- Bostin only lasted 3 weeks with him bc he put him on so much gh and AAS that his body felt "toxic", could not eat due to all the orals, could not shave due to all the hgh hands
- Dallas uses 15iu HGH serostim, while Bostin only uses 4iu of Chinese generics
- Dallas' parents pay for all his drugs
- This particular trainer got other youngsters like Nick Trigili and Cody Lewis huge
- Dallas McCarver got lucky to get a pro card, b/c Drew Jemmott and Dan Decker wasn't in the open. And Dallas' trainer paid off a judge.

 

[Big Chiro Flex]

You're thinking of John O'Reagan. He IS known for recommending his athletes eat MASSIVE amounts of food, force feeding and massive dosages with tons of GH and peptide use (ghrp6 to increase hunger). He's responsible for Dallas McCarver's rapid gains and pro status. He worked with Bostin and recommended the same. Now he is one trainer who is well known to recommend a blunt force all out approach.

Yes that's Bostin's old coach. Crazy fuckers...
Thanks "Asspie" 

[no one]

I dont get your attack on JM?  Because he cited one rat study to support a point? I can tell you from his videos, site and radio show he is NOT a proponent of huge doses and none of his top clients are either.  Everyone at that level runs the same basic amounts anyway. What separates people is genetics, diet and work ethic.  He talks often about the misconception of how more drugs leads to freakier physiques when in reality, there is a point of diminishing returns to pure drug use in terms of dose. You will feel shitty on mega mega doses and this is sub-optimal for peak eating and training patterns. He is a huge health guy too, his diet is extremely clean and he talks about controlling lipids and BP often.

Seriously, who the fuck is deceiver?  

so let me ask you, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory even though I've ripped on john in the last, I do like the guy cause he loves the iron and helps people as much as he can and everyone who knows him speaks highly of him, but how in gods name can you call him a 'huge health guy' lol

look at him bro. does he fucking look healthy to you? do you think that's some prop and 300mgs of tren ace a week? he's swimming in anabolics. it would make your fucking nose bleed to to read his cycle most likely.


so I get you like him and you want to defend him but lay off the healthy bullshit. just cause a guy eats free range beef or whatever the fuck it is doesnt make him healthy. he's the furthest thing from.

[SquidVicious]

i doubt any pro bodybuilder ever consumes BCAA

THIS!

[polychronopolous]

Hardcore as FUCK! Gotta give him props on that.

[Alpine]

so let me ask you, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory even though I've ripped on john in the last, I do like the guy cause he loves the iron and helps people as much as he can and everyone who knows him speaks highly of him, but how in gods name can you call him a 'huge health guy' lol

look at him bro. does he fucking look healthy to you? do you think that's some prop and 300mgs of tren ace a week? he's swimming in anabolics. it would make your fucking nose bleed to to read his cycle most likely.


so I get you like him and you want to defend him but lay off the healthy bullshit. just cause a guy eats free range beef or whatever the fuck it is doesnt make him healthy. he's the furthest thing from.

I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean/organic and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health. I think that is an unreliable indicator anyway. 

[no one]

I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health.

solid post. well put. cheers.

[deceiver]

I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean/organic and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health. I think that is an unreliable indicator anyway.  

And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he claims shit that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

And please don't hate me, it's not my fault that research is what it is. Hate the data.

[ProudVirgin69]

And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he claims shit that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

And please don't hate me, it's not my fault that research is what it is. Hate the data.

To be fair, I doubt that John Meadows wrote that article....I'm sure he has a deal with T-Nation where they can attribute his name to all types of ghost-written articles & quotes

[Alpine]

And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he states thing that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing. I agree that extraploating that conclusion from a rat model is flawed. But that makes a lot of studies flawed. I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of CHO, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. In other words, a fasted state with introduction of just BCAA or PRO is not an optimal muscle building environment. I do not agree that protein synthesis is completely halted though. That is certainly a reach. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased clean food consumption and increased metabolism.  

[deceiver]

I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing.  I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of a carb, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased food consumption and increased metabolism.  

I am under impression that we have read completely different article.

"Proponents of IF like to think of it as the 'science diet' but the complete opposite is true. Intermittent fasting is the fad diet. There's no logic to it, unless your goal is to lose muscle, slow down your metabolism, and have poor workouts.

"My most difficult clients are people that have crashed and burned on intermittent fasting. Here's how it always plays out: I get a guy that was 20-30% body fat. He does IF and he loses some fat and muscle. Then he gets stuck at 15-18% body fat, so he takes his calories down. Now he's stuck at 1800-2000 calories, nothing is happening, and he's miserable. Then he comes to me for help.

[ProudVirgin69]

I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing. I agree that extraploating that conclusion from a rat model is flawed. But that makes a lot of studies flawed. I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of CHO, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased clean food consumption and increased metabolism.  

Actually, that's almost the opposite of what the study indicated.

[Alpine]

Actually, that's almost the opposite of what the study indicated.

I mean I think this is what JM is saying or trying to say, but fell short of. I did not read the study because its garbage. I agree lack of CHO w/ BCAA will not halt PS entirely and pulling this from the rat model seems silly in real world human application. But I also agree that a fasted state with the introduction of just PRO or BCAA is not an optimal anabolic environment too. I am not sold on IF. I have seen the best results when I am taking in clean food often and actually increase my cals some. When I tried IF before, my cals dropped, my workouts suffered and I seemed to lose more muscle while I lost fat.

If T-nation said he authored it, I doubt its ghost written.

I am under impression that we have read completely different article.

I agree that those quotes make him seem a hell of a lot more ANTI-IF than I believed. If only Martin Berkhan of Leangains liked WWE and troll posts, then maybe he would have been a member here and could chime in.

[drmarkp]

LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying you shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.

When I was competing, I didn't know shit from shinola about training or nutrition; yet I still got as big as my marginal genetics would allow, and was winning or placing high in every show I entered... At the end of the day it's all drugs and genetics...

[_aj_]

To be fair, I doubt that John Meadows wrote that article....I'm sure he has a deal with T-Nation where they can attribute his name to all types of ghost-written articles & quotes

I used to train with Tony Gentlecore, who is a frequent contributor to T-Nation. He says that the most the editorial staff does is cram in all those ridiculous references to their Biotest supplements at odd places.