Feminists up in arms over Miss Nevada Advocating self defense classes for women

[RRKore]

Here's how the site attempts to explain it, displayed as it was taken:

*

The fear of getting falsely accused of rape just doesn’t compare to the fear of an actual rapist getting away with his or her crime.  Statistics from Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2006-2010 and FBI reports. NOTE (2/6/13):  As so many people continue to visit this site and share this convo-graphic, we’ve updated this post to include the context from this post.

 

As a wife, mom, survivor, and regular person until Monday morning, I am overwhelmed and astounded by the reaction and response to the “Truth About False Accusation” infographic, and encouraged by the dialogue that has emerged as a result of it.  Thank you to each and every person who shared it, debated it, loved it, and hated it.

We accept and encourage debate on this and any future infographics released by The Enliven Project.  Given the massive amount of media coverage and online discussion about it, I wanted to provide some additional – and more well-thought out – context to the purpose of the graphic and The Enliven Project, as well as to address a bit of criticism about the data we used.

The purpose of this graphic is to compare (primarily men’s) fear of being falsely accused of being a rapist to the many challenges around reporting, prosecuting, and punishing rapists.

Two key figures drive that point home:

    *A reporting rate of 10%
    *A false reporting rate of 2%

The other decision we made was to present data that fell within documented ranges, rather than reflect the findings of a particular report, because of the inherent challenge in collecting data on this issue.  Said another way: at the moment, an argument could be made that every source is flawed in some way.  The reason we pursued a composite approach instead of relying on one study was exactly to spark discussion about the underlying data and definitions, and – perhaps most importantly – the current challenges in data collection.

For example – here are a handful of challenges that we encountered while putting together the infographic and, as a result, some limitations of the infographic itself:

    *The federal data provides arrest, conviction, and incarceration rates on forcible rape only, NOT other forms of sexual violence.
    *Until 2012, the federal definition of rape was limited to penetration of a vagina by a penis.  Therefore, 100% of rapists would have to be men.
    *The difference between a false report (how data is counted and being falsely accused (the fear at the individual level).  Lonesway, Archembault, and Lisak, the authors of the article from The National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women, use the following definition: A false report is a report of a sexual assault that did not happen (i.e., it was not completed or attempted).”  The report goes on to discuss the challenges of defining whether the assault in fact didn’t happen or whether investigators or prosecutors decide that it did not happen based “simply on their own views of the victim, the suspect, and their credibility.” Individuals who are falsely accused of rape outside of the justice system would not be counted in this figure.

Despite these admitted flaws, here’s what’s not disputable:

    *Rape and sexual violence continue to impact men, women, and children across the country and around the world.
    *Fewer than 100% of rapes are reported to the police because social, emotional, and legal barriers still exist.
    *Sexual violence has an enormous emotional and financial cost to our society, and many bystanders don’t even know they are being affected by it when in reality, they are.
    *Individuals, foundations, employers, and the government do not invest deeply enough in awareness, prevention, intervention and recovery.
    *Our justice system isn’t perfect.  Sometimes innocent people are charged.  And sometime guilty people go free.  That doesn’t mean that men and women aren’t being raped and sexually assaulted.  It means there are improvements that can be made all around.

Finally, there is something that this graphic does NOT represent.  And that is the impact of false accusation on an individual’s life.  The purpose of the graphic was to put the FEAR of false accusation in perspective, not to discount the very real impact that a false report or false accusation has on someone’s life.

We certainly plan future infographics and have learned from this overwhelming and humbling response that visualizing these issues can be quite powerful, and careful sourcing and stating assumptions up front is also important.  Our primary goal – and that of The Enliven Project as a whole – was to start a conversation that desperately needs to be had in our country.  We’ll let others decide whether or not we were successful on this front.  However, in the future, the kind of analysis and background information provided here and below will be made available at the time the infographic is released so that there are no misconceptions about our intent and message.

Breakdown of Graphic and Statistics

1,000 Rapists (technically 1,000 rapes as pointed out by Slate, a distinction we missed in an effort to bring some reality to the numbers.)

Of those 1,000 rapes, we applied a 10% reporting rate (100)

    *Source: http://www.hmic.gov.uk/media/without-consent-20061231.pdf
    Page 8: “Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 per cent of rape crimes are never reported to the police.”
    *Source:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245 (2011 Criminal Victimization Survey):  Reported to the police (US):  27% in 2011, 49% in 2010

Of those 100 reported rapes, we show 30 faced trial (this includes those that were jailed). This is 30%.  Faced trial, for the purpose of this graphic, uses composite data reflecting the terms prosecution, arrested, and faced trial.

    *RAINN (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates) lists for 46 rapes, 9 get prosecuted. This is 19.5%.
    *Tjaden, P., & Thoennes, N. (2006). Extent, nature and consequences of rape victimization: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice.  – 37% of reported rapes are prosecuted
    *Patterson, D., & Campbell, R. (2010). Why rape survivors participate in the criminal justice system. Journal of Community Psychology, 38(2), 191-205. – 14-18% of reported rapes lead to prosecution
    *http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/clearances - 40% clearance rate in 2010 (arrested or cleared by exceptional means)

Of the 100 rapes brought to trial, 10 are jailed. This is 10%.  Or, of the 30 rapes prosecuted, 10 are jailed. This is 33.3%.

    *When considered 10% of the 100 reported rapes: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st229?pg=11Table A-4 in 1997, Probability of prison for rape is 9%.
    *When considered 10% of the 100 reported rapes: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fdluc06.pdf
    page 11 in 2006: 62% of felony rape defendants are convicted, 50% of a felony
    page 12 in 2006: most severe sentence of convicted offenders
    For rape: 80% incarcerated. Combining these, 0.62 * 0.8 = 0.496 (49.6%)
    *When considered as a portion of prosecuted rapes that are jailed: RAINN (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates) lists for 9 prosecuted rapes, 3 are jailed. This is 33.3%.

Of the 100 rapes reported, 2 are false accusations.  The 2% false accusation rate was applied only to the number of reported rapes.

    *Source: http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf page 2: “when more methodologically rigorous research has been conducted, estimates for the percentage of false reports begin to converge around 2-8%.”

From "The Enliven Project"

Thought-provoking stuff.  Thanks.

(I'll resist the urge to insert some kind of "resuming my search for some good humiliation porn" comment here, lol)

[Archer77]

Here's how the site attempts to explain it, displayed as it was taken:

*

The fear of getting falsely accused of rape just doesn’t compare to the fear of an actual rapist getting away with his or her crime.  Statistics from Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2006-2010 and FBI reports. NOTE (2/6/13):  As so many people continue to visit this site and share this convo-graphic, we’ve updated this post to include the context from this post.

 

As a wife, mom, survivor, and regular person until Monday morning, I am overwhelmed and astounded by the reaction and response to the “Truth About False Accusation” infographic, and encouraged by the dialogue that has emerged as a result of it.  Thank you to each and every person who shared it, debated it, loved it, and hated it.

We accept and encourage debate on this and any future infographics released by The Enliven Project.  Given the massive amount of media coverage and online discussion about it, I wanted to provide some additional – and more well-thought out – context to the purpose of the graphic and The Enliven Project, as well as to address a bit of criticism about the data we used.

The purpose of this graphic is to compare (primarily men’s) fear of being falsely accused of being a rapist to the many challenges around reporting, prosecuting, and punishing rapists.

Two key figures drive that point home:

    *A reporting rate of 10%
    *A false reporting rate of 2%

The other decision we made was to present data that fell within documented ranges, rather than reflect the findings of a particular report, because of the inherent challenge in collecting data on this issue.  Said another way: at the moment, an argument could be made that every source is flawed in some way.  The reason we pursued a composite approach instead of relying on one study was exactly to spark discussion about the underlying data and definitions, and – perhaps most importantly – the current challenges in data collection.

For example – here are a handful of challenges that we encountered while putting together the infographic and, as a result, some limitations of the infographic itself:

    *The federal data provides arrest, conviction, and incarceration rates on forcible rape only, NOT other forms of sexual violence.
    *Until 2012, the federal definition of rape was limited to penetration of a vagina by a penis.  Therefore, 100% of rapists would have to be men.
    *The difference between a false report (how data is counted and being falsely accused (the fear at the individual level).  Lonesway, Archembault, and Lisak, the authors of the article from The National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women, use the following definition: A false report is a report of a sexual assault that did not happen (i.e., it was not completed or attempted).”  The report goes on to discuss the challenges of defining whether the assault in fact didn’t happen or whether investigators or prosecutors decide that it did not happen based “simply on their own views of the victim, the suspect, and their credibility.” Individuals who are falsely accused of rape outside of the justice system would not be counted in this figure.

Despite these admitted flaws, here’s what’s not disputable:

    *Rape and sexual violence continue to impact men, women, and children across the country and around the world.
    *Fewer than 100% of rapes are reported to the police because social, emotional, and legal barriers still exist.
    *Sexual violence has an enormous emotional and financial cost to our society, and many bystanders don’t even know they are being affected by it when in reality, they are.
    *Individuals, foundations, employers, and the government do not invest deeply enough in awareness, prevention, intervention and recovery.
    *Our justice system isn’t perfect.  Sometimes innocent people are charged.  And sometime guilty people go free.  That doesn’t mean that men and women aren’t being raped and sexually assaulted.  It means there are improvements that can be made all around.

Finally, there is something that this graphic does NOT represent.  And that is the impact of false accusation on an individual’s life.  The purpose of the graphic was to put the FEAR of false accusation in perspective, not to discount the very real impact that a false report or false accusation has on someone’s life.

We certainly plan future infographics and have learned from this overwhelming and humbling response that visualizing these issues can be quite powerful, and careful sourcing and stating assumptions up front is also important.  Our primary goal – and that of The Enliven Project as a whole – was to start a conversation that desperately needs to be had in our country.  We’ll let others decide whether or not we were successful on this front.  However, in the future, the kind of analysis and background information provided here and below will be made available at the time the infographic is released so that there are no misconceptions about our intent and message.

Breakdown of Graphic and Statistics

1,000 Rapists (technically 1,000 rapes as pointed out by Slate, a distinction we missed in an effort to bring some reality to the numbers.)

Of those 1,000 rapes, we applied a 10% reporting rate (100)

    *Source: http://www.hmic.gov.uk/media/without-consent-20061231.pdf
    Page 8: “Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 per cent of rape crimes are never reported to the police.”
    *Source:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245 (2011 Criminal Victimization Survey):  Reported to the police (US):  27% in 2011, 49% in 2010

Of those 100 reported rapes, we show 30 faced trial (this includes those that were jailed). This is 30%.  Faced trial, for the purpose of this graphic, uses composite data reflecting the terms prosecution, arrested, and faced trial.

    *RAINN (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates) lists for 46 rapes, 9 get prosecuted. This is 19.5%.
    *Tjaden, P., & Thoennes, N. (2006). Extent, nature and consequences of rape victimization: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice.  – 37% of reported rapes are prosecuted
    *Patterson, D., & Campbell, R. (2010). Why rape survivors participate in the criminal justice system. Journal of Community Psychology, 38(2), 191-205. – 14-18% of reported rapes lead to prosecution
    *http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/clearances - 40% clearance rate in 2010 (arrested or cleared by exceptional means)

Of the 100 rapes brought to trial, 10 are jailed. This is 10%.  Or, of the 30 rapes prosecuted, 10 are jailed. This is 33.3%.

    *When considered 10% of the 100 reported rapes: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st229?pg=11Table A-4 in 1997, Probability of prison for rape is 9%.
    *When considered 10% of the 100 reported rapes: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fdluc06.pdf
    page 11 in 2006: 62% of felony rape defendants are convicted, 50% of a felony
    page 12 in 2006: most severe sentence of convicted offenders
    For rape: 80% incarcerated. Combining these, 0.62 * 0.8 = 0.496 (49.6%)
    *When considered as a portion of prosecuted rapes that are jailed: RAINN (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates) lists for 9 prosecuted rapes, 3 are jailed. This is 33.3%.

Of the 100 rapes reported, 2 are false accusations.  The 2% false accusation rate was applied only to the number of reported rapes.

    *Source: http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf page 2: “when more methodologically rigorous research has been conducted, estimates for the percentage of false reports begin to converge around 2-8%.”

From "The Enliven Project"

All the same problems I mentioned apply to the statistics listed above. Exactly the same. For the 10% reporting rate to mean anything you must assume all or a large majority of unreported cases are in fact true.   You must also assume the those individuals who are accused of rape, go to trial and arent convicted are in fact guilty. Without doing this these numbers are meaningless.

If you applied the number of individuals who are found not guilty of rape at trial to the number of falsely accused the number goes way up.  The number goes up further when you include false allegations made in unreported cases. Notice they list the  unreported and reported as rape not as allegations of rape.  The implication being the accusation is inherently true.

[Purge_WTF]

[Jack T. Cross]

Yeah, guys. I wouldn't rely on anything that's related to the source of that so-called infographic.

[RRKore]

All the same problems I mentioned apply to the statistics listed above. Exactly the same. For the 10% reporting rate to mean anything you must assume all or a large majority of unreported cases are in fact true.   You must also assume the those individuals who are accused of rape, go to trial and arent convicted are in fact guilty. Without doing this these numbers are meaningless.

If you applied the number of individuals who are found not guilty of rape at trial to the number of falsely accused the number goes way up.  The number goes up further when you include false allegations made in unreported cases. Notice they list the  unreported and reported as rape not as allegations of rape.  The implication being the accusation is inherently true.

Uhh, you're not playing fair here.  You are using terms like "meaningless" far too easily.

Anyway, it seems like the main point of the graphic was to contrast the frequency of rapes with the frequency of rape allegations that are false with the clear conclusion that the former outnumbers the latter by a near-ridiculous margin.  You wouldn't disagree with that, would you?  For me, this passes the smell test.

BTW, the article that Jack T. dug up seems pretty even-handed to me.  I like how they made a point to say (something like) that that though their graphic showed the relative infrequency of false rape allegations, it in no way represented the damage that such allegations could do to someone who was falsely accused.  That admission scored points with me.

[Archer77]

Uhh, you're not playing fair here.  You are using terms like "meaningless" far too easily.

Anyway, it seems like the main point of the graphic was to contrast the frequency of rapes with the frequency of rape allegations that are false with the clear conclusion that the former outnumbers the latter by a near-ridiculous margin.  You wouldn't disagree with that, would you?  For me, this passes the smell test.

BTW, the article that Jack T. dug up seems pretty even-handed to me.  I like how they made a point to say (something like) that that though their graphic showed the relative infrequency of false rape allegations, it in no way represented the damage that such allegations could do to someone who was falsely accused.  That admission scored points with me.

I am playing fair.  I'm being more fair and honest than the makers of the graph because I don't have an agenda.   The graph becomes meaningless because the makers of the graph are trying to associate numbers that may not have much relation to each other as it concerns the conclusion being drawn. 

The intent of the graph is to conflate the issue and lead the reader to the exact conclusion you came to. 
The implication being pushed in the graph is that there is an injustice and rapists are not receiving justice at the rate at which they are committing rape. There is no evidence for this.

A common mistake people make when looking at these types of graphs is to extrapolate unnecessarily and make conclusions the information does not support.   You see this most frequently with crimes stats.  Because  a particular group are incarcerated at a higher rate there must be injustice.  Rarely do they bother to research further.

Unreported rapes are essentially hearsay and shouldn't even be listed because they can't be substantiated.  It's essentially one persons word against another.  I can accuse anyone of anything but that doesn't mean there is any truth to the allegation.  The graph also gives no information as to why a portion of reported rapes did not go to trial. The reader is left to conclude the reason is something other than the innocence of the accused.

Falsely accused is another unclear term.   I would imagine that many individuals accused of rape never go to trial because of mitigating circumstance such as lack of evidence or the authorities doubt the claim of the accuser.  How does one determine a rape allegation is false.  Does this require a trial, an admission from the accuser or the prosecution not pursuing charges?

[Shockwave]

I feel like the makes of the graph are assuming that anytime any female thinks the word 'rape', it means they were raped. Ive known girls that have told friends they were 'raped' because the friends dodnt like the guy they hooked up with.

'Oh he raped me, id never fuck him'

[Archer77]

I feel like the makes of the graph are assuming that anytime any female thinks the word 'rape', it means they were raped. Ive known girls that have told friends they were 'raped' because the friends dodnt like the guy they hooked up with.

'Oh he raped me, id never fuck him'

Thats exactly the point. Noticed they never use the term alleged rape, only rape.  The implication being that all accusations of rape are in fact true.  The graph carries no weight unless you make that assumption

[RRKore]

I am playing fair.  I'm being more fair and honest than the makers of the graph because I don't have an agenda.   The graph becomes meaningless because the makers of the graph are trying to associate numbers that may not have much relation to each other as it concerns the conclusion being drawn. 

The intent of the graph is to conflate the issue and lead the reader to the exact conclusion you came to. 
The implication being pushed in the graph is that there is an injustice and rapists are not receiving justice at the rate at which they are committing rape. There is no evidence for this.

A common mistake people make when looking at these types of graphs is to extrapolate unnecessarily and make conclusions the information does not support.   You see this most frequently with crimes stats.  Because  a particular group are incarcerated at a higher rate there must be injustice.  Rarely do they bother to research further.

Unreported rapes are essentially hearsay and shouldn't even be listed because they can't be substantiated.  It's essentially one persons word against another.  I can accuse anyone of anything but that doesn't mean there is any truth to the allegation.  The graph also gives no information as to why a portion of reported rapes did not go to trial. The reader is left to conclude the reason is something other than the innocence of the accused.

Falsely accused is another unclear term.   I would imagine that many individuals accused of rape never go to trial because of mitigating circumstance such as lack of evidence or the authorities doubt the claim of the accuser.  How does one determine a rape allegation is false.  Does this require a trial, an admission from the accuser or the prosecution not pursuing charges?

Holy fuck, really? 

There is no evidence that substantiates the claim that rapists are not "receiving justice" at the same rate as their committing rapes? Holy shit, what do you call evidence?  I guess you think most women are, what?, exaggerating?  Or maybe your definition of "rape" is extremely narrow?  Be nice for you to explain here.

Direct questions here, then.

Do you think most rapes go unreported or not? 

Do you think that sometimes women will try to accuse a guy of rape (by making the allegation to a 3rd party) when the sex was consensual or not? 

Do you think the frequency of those two situations above are comparable (as in close to the same number of occurrences) or not?

Look, like you sort of said, any kind of he said/she said situation (that isn't recorded on video) cannot really be substantiated 100% can it?  I  can understand why this might mean that it's impossible to prosecute all rapists, but you seem to be saying more that this; You seem to be saying that this means that it's doubtful that any rape took place.  And this is seems to be at odds with what the common consensus.

Last question:  Of the women that you know IRL, do their ideas differ much from yours when it comes to the supposed incidence of unreported rapes?

[Archer77]

Holy fuck, really?  

There is no evidence that substantiates the claim that rapists are not "receiving justice" at the same rate as their committing rapes? Holy shit, what do you call evidence?  I guess you think most women are, what?, exaggerating?  Or maybe your definition of "rape" is extremely narrow?  Be nice for you to explain here.[/quote]

Evidence is more than one persons word against another.

[/quote]Direct questions here, then.

Do you think most rapes go unreported or not?  [/quote]


You can't make an accurate determination considering they are unreported.  Where is the evidence that the vast majority of cases are unreported?   Where is the evidence that the vast majority of unreported rapes are legitimate? And since these rapes are neither confirmed as true or false its disingenuous to refer to unreported rapes as anything other than allegations. 


[/quote]Do you think that sometimes women will try to accuse a guy of rape (by making the allegation to a 3rd party) when the sex was consensual or not?  [/quote]

People do all sorts of things for a multitude of reasons. I would assume that it is within the realm of possibility that people will make false claims about a lot of things.  Don't they already?

[/quote]Do you think the frequency of those two situations above are comparable (as in close to the same number of occurrences) or not?[/quote]

I do not.   There is no evidence to support that assumption.  They are connected in so far as they are intended by the graph maker to be in order to make a point. 

[/quote]Look, like you sort of said, any kind of he said/she said situation (that isn't recorded on video) cannot really be substantiated 100% can it?  I  can understand why this might mean that it's impossible to prosecute all rapists, but you seem to be saying more that this; You seem to be saying that this means that it's doubtful that any rape took place.  And this is seems to be at odds with what the common consensus.[/quote]

I never made any claims about whether a rape did or did not occur nor did I mention anything about video. What I am saying is that you don't know and therefore shouldn't be using those cases to substantiate any claims about the prevalence of rape, reported or unreported.   

Last question:  Of the women that you know IRL, do their ideas differ much from yours when it comes to the supposed incidence of unreported rapes? 

I generally don't have conversations about rape. 

[RRKore]

Holy fuck, really?  

There is no evidence that substantiates the claim that rapists are not "receiving justice" at the same rate as their committing rapes? Holy shit, what do you call evidence?  I guess you think most women are, what?, exaggerating?  Or maybe your definition of "rape" is extremely narrow?  Be nice for you to explain here.

Evidence is more than one persons word against another.

Direct questions here, then.

Do you think most rapes go unreported or not?  


You can't make an accurate determination considering they are unreported.  Where is the evidence that the vast majority of cases are unreported?   Where is the evidence that the vast majority of unreported rapes are legitimate? And since these rapes are neither confirmed as true or false its disingenuous to refer to unreported rapes as anything other than allegations. 


Do you think that sometimes women will try to accuse a guy of rape (by making the allegation to a 3rd party) when the sex was consensual or not?  

People do all sorts of things for a multitude of reasons. I would assume that it is within the realm of possibility that people will make false claims about a lot of things.  Don't they already?

Do you think the frequency of those two situations above are comparable (as in close to the same number of occurrences) or not?

I do not.   There is no evidence to support that assumption.  They are connected in so far as they are intended by the graph maker to be in order to make a point. 

Look, like you sort of said, any kind of he said/she said situation (that isn't recorded on video) cannot really be substantiated 100% can it?  I  can understand why this might mean that it's impossible to prosecute all rapists, but you seem to be saying more that this; You seem to be saying that this means that it's doubtful that any rape took place.  And this is seems to be at odds with what the common consensus.

I never made any claims about whether a rape did or did not occur nor did I mention anything about video. What I am saying is that you don't know and therefore shouldn't be using those cases to substantiate any claims about the prevalence of rape, reported or unreported.   

Last question:  Of the women that you know IRL, do their ideas differ much from yours when it comes to the supposed incidence of unreported rapes? 

I generally don't have conversations about rape. 

I'm gonna differ with you about what one can say with confidence about something has occurred or not even given the lack of 100% proof.  It's 2014, mang.  Polling and statistics seem to be fairly developed disciplines nowadays.

In this day and age I believe it IS possible to make statements that have at least a passing acquaintance with accuracy in regard to the prevalence of unreported rapes as long the sample sizes are big enough and the means for procuring such samples are scientifically valid. That you are not personally aware of such "evidence" doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You can quibble with accuracy but it seems reasonable to expect that using scientifically valid statistical means you'd be able to ascertain results that would be accurate within a range small enough to be useful for doing something like comparing the incidence of unreported rapes to unfounded rape allegations. 

Seems like what you'd like to do is just bemoan the fact that exact numbers aren't available and then dismiss the subject...but I could be wrong about that.

[Shockwave]

He's right... hes absolutely right. That article is nothing but assumptions.

[RRKore]

He's right... hes absolutely right. That article is nothing but assumptions.

Yeah, true. 

Clearly, all rapes are reported and all rapists are brought to justice. 

Nothing to see here. 

Move along.

[Shockwave]

Yeah, true. 

Clearly, all rapes are reported and all rapists are brought to justice. 

Nothing to see here. 

Move along.

Yeah, cause thats totally what was insinuated. 

I'm sure there are rapes that aren't reported, but that bullshit makes it seem like there is 100 rapes for every 1 that gets reported. Get a grip. 

[RRKore]

Yeah, cause thats totally what was insinuated. 

I'm sure there are rapes that aren't reported, but that bullshit makes it seem like there is 100 rapes for every 1 that gets reported. Get a grip. 

Looks like 10 unreported for every 1 reported to me.

By exaggerating the ratio of alleged unreported rapes to reported ones, what were you insinuating?

Sorry to offend the pro-rape crowd.  Jeez.

[Shockwave]

Looks like 10 unreported for every 1 reported to me.

By exaggerating the ratio of alleged unreported rapes to reported ones, what were you insinuating?

Sorry to offend the pro-rape crowd.  Jeez.

Pro rape crowd?

Jesus christ dude give me a break. I'm sorry we don't automatically assume that every woman that has ever thought about the word "rape" means that they were raped, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and didn't report it, and that we don't automatically believe fuzzy math that will quantify a statistic that, by its very nature, is supposedly NOT FUCKING REPORTED.

[RRKore]

Pro rape crowd?

Jesus christ dude.

Kidding! 

I'm just getting a little bored with this topic -- I'm not a rapist nor am I likely to ever be either raped or accused of being a rapist so ...

Besides, my mind is still occupied by ho-ho's and even though I'm at home, I'm pretty sure the only "snacks" we have on hand right now are nasty shit like my Thai wife's shrimp-flavored chips...FML.

[Archer77]

Looks like 10 unreported for every 1 reported to me.

By exaggerating the ratio of alleged unreported rapes to reported ones, what were you insinuating?

Sorry to offend the pro-rape crowd.  Jeez.

You keep saying unreported rapes.  You're assuming there is veracity to these claims by referring to them in definitive terms like unreported rapes.  They really are unsubstantiated allegations.  And there is no way to substantiate these allegations.

[Skeletor]

Those who falsely accuse a person of rape should face the maximum sentence a rapist would get along with all the consequences of course (having to register as sex offender etc.).

[RRKore]

You keep saying unreported rapes.  You're assuming there is veracity to these claims by referring to them in definitive terms like unreported rapes.  They really are unsubstantiated allegations.  And there is no way to substantiate these allegations.

What's wrong with the term? 

Doesn't it just mean a rape where the victim did not go to the cops?

Why the insistence on substantiation before it's ok to call it rape and not an alleged rape? 

Would you do that with an unreported (to the cops) burglary? 

For you to insist on "allegation" language seems to imply that you think false rape accusations are somewhat common.

Come to think about it, I really don't get it unless your default position is that women are lying when they say they've been raped.  (And if you think this, you are smoking crack.)

C'mon, you must have a feeling about this one way or another:  Whaddaya think is more common, a woman not reporting a rape or a woman alleging rape when one did not occur?

[RRKore]

Pro rape crowd?

Jesus christ dude give me a break. I'm sorry we don't automatically assume that every woman that has ever thought about the word "rape" means that they were raped, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and didn't report it, and that we don't automatically believe fuzzy math that will quantify a statistic that, by its very nature, is supposedly NOT FUCKING REPORTED.

Not reported to police. 

Not COMPLETELY unreported (and pulled from the victims' minds via, what?, Vulcan mind-meld?)

What's hard to understand about this?

[RRKore]

Those who falsely accuse a person of rape should face the maximum sentence a rapist would get along with all the consequences of course (having to register as sex offender etc.).

No, the sentence should be worse.  Seriously.

A false accuser is not only possibly fucking up some innocent guy's life, she's also "crying wolf" and thereby creating doubt in the minds of others about the legitimacy of real rapes and, by extension, possibly making it easier for real rapists to go unpunished.

[Skeletor]

No, the sentence should be worse.  Seriously.

Agreed it should be more-much much more- but even that would be welcome. In accusations of rape the alleged victim's identity is usually not revealed but there doesn't seem to be much issue with the alleged rapist's identity. What sentence does a false accuser of rape receive usually (in the rare cases they are taken to court)? It's not the same as the prison time a rapist would receive but most importantly, the destruction of that person's name and reputation by a false rape accusation.

[flipper5470]

I just raped my neighbor...let's see if she reports it....

[SCRUBS]

Who cares what those sperm receptacles are up in arms about or what they think?