Author Topic: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea  (Read 6379 times)

BayGBM

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Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« on: June 18, 2014, 04:49:15 PM »
Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
by PAUL WALDMAN June 18 at 12:35 PM

Today, on the Senate floor, Harry Reid said: “Being on the wrong side of Dick Cheney is being on the right side of history.”

Reid was responding to Cheney’s op-ed in the Wall Street Journal with his daughter Liz attacking the Obama administration’s policies in the Middle East and elsewhere, a piece that has already generated much discussion. The Cheneys have also formed an organization, the Alliance for a Strong America, to advocate Cheneyite policies (you can tell it’ll be strong and resolute, because in the announcement video, Dick is wearing a cowboy hat).

The Cheneys’ op ed and new organization capture a key facet of conservatives’ approach to the foreign policies of the Obama era: They ply their ideas from a strange place where history started in January 2009.

The Cheneys offer no discussion of the disastrous decision to invade Iraq in the first place (though they still surely believe the war was a great idea, they apparently realize most Americans don’t agree). But anything that happened afterward can only be Obama’s fault. They write, “Mr. Obama had only to negotiate an agreement to leave behind some residual American forces, training and intelligence capabilities to help secure the peace. Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.”

Yes, he “had only” to do that, and everything would have turned out fine. But who was it who signed the agreement mandating the removal of all American forces from Iraq by the end of 2011? It was George W. Bush. When the time arrived, the Maliki government was determined to get all American troops out, and refused to negotiate a new agreement without putting American troops at the mercy of the Iraqi justice system — something no American president would ever have accepted.

Obama faces an almost impossible situation. Short of an outright invasion, whatever we choose to do military is only going to have a limited impact on how this all ends. Some argue that Obama should have tried harder to negotiate a new agreement, to keep a small force there. The administration claims that would have been fruitless, because Maliki wouldn’t have allowed it. But this is all a counter-factual — and it should be noted that even if we had left a smaller force there, it still might not have been enough to determine the course of events.  The big picture is that, if you were for withdrawal, you were inevitably going to be for giving up our influence over the country’s future.

Maybe that’s why the Cheneys’ op ed is silent on what they would do differently in Iraq today. The op-ed contains nothing even approaching a specific suggestion for what , other than to say that defeating terrorists “will require a strategy — not a fantasy. It will require sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts — not empty misleading rhetoric. It will require rebuilding America’s military capacity — reversing the Obama policies that have weakened our armed forces and reduced our ability to influence events around the world.”

So to recap: we need a strategy, and though they won’t tell us what that strategy might be, it should involve military, intelligence, and diplomatic efforts, and rebuilding the military. Apart from the absurd claim that the armed forces have been “weakened” (we’re still spending over $600 billion a year on the military even with the war in Iraq behind us and Afghanistan winding down), the Cheneys are about as clear on what we should do now as they were on how invading Iraq was supposed to spread peace and democracy across the Middle East.

Watch closely as Republicans troop to the TV studios in the coming days, because they’ll be saying much the same thing. They won’t bring up what a disaster the war was; they’ll hope you forget that they supported it, and they won’t mention that it was Bush who signed the agreement to remove all the troops from Iraq. They will say almost nothing about what they would do differently now, other than to say we have to be “strong” and “send the right message” to the terrorists.

When it comes to being wrong about Iraq, Dick Cheney has been in a class by himself. It was Cheney who said, “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.”

It was Cheney who said: “it’s been pretty well confirmed” that 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta “did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service.”

It was Cheney who said: “we do know, with absolute certainty, that [Saddam Hussein] is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon”

It was Cheney who said in 2005: “I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.”

All those things, and many more, were false. There is not a single person in America — not Bill Kristol, not Paul Wolfowitz, not Don Rumsfeld, no pundit, not even President Bush himself — who has been more wrong and more shamelessly dishonest on the topic of Iraq than Dick Cheney.

And now, as the cascade of misery and death and chaos he did so much to unleash rages anew, Cheney has the unadulterated gall to come before the country and tell us that it’s all someone else’s fault, and if we would only listen to him then we could keep America safe forever. How dumb would we have to be to listen?

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 04:54:03 PM »
The Collapsing Obama Doctrine
Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.
by DICK CHENEY And LIZ CHENEY

As the terrorists of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) threaten Baghdad, thousands of slaughtered Iraqis in their wake, it is worth recalling a few of President Obama's past statements about ISIS and al Qaeda. "If a J.V. team puts on Lakers' uniforms that doesn't make them Kobe Bryant" (January 2014). "[C]ore al Qaeda is on its heels, has been decimated" (August 2013). "So, let there be no doubt: The tide of war is receding" (September 2011).

Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. Too many times to count, Mr. Obama has told us he is "ending" the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—as though wishing made it so. His rhetoric has now come crashing into reality. Watching the black-clad ISIS jihadists take territory once secured by American blood is final proof, if any were needed, that America's enemies are not "decimated." They are emboldened and on the march.

The fall of the Iraqi cities of Fallujah, Tikrit, Mosul and Tel Afar, and the establishment of terrorist safe havens across a large swath of the Arab world, present a strategic threat to the security of the United States. Mr. Obama's actions—before and after ISIS's recent advances in Iraq—have the effect of increasing that threat.

On a trip to the Middle East this spring, we heard a constant refrain in capitals from the Persian Gulf to Israel, "Can you please explain what your president is doing?" "Why is he walking away?" "Why is he so blithely sacrificing the hard fought gains you secured in Iraq?" "Why is he abandoning your friends?" "Why is he doing deals with your enemies?"

In one Arab capital, a senior official pulled out a map of Syria and Iraq. Drawing an arc with his finger from Raqqa province in northern Syria to Anbar province in western Iraq, he said, "They will control this territory. Al Qaeda is building safe havens and training camps here. Don't the Americans care?"

Our president doesn't seem to. Iraq is at risk of falling to a radical Islamic terror group and Mr. Obama is talking climate change. Terrorists take control of more territory and resources than ever before in history, and he goes golfing. He seems blithely unaware, or indifferent to the fact, that a resurgent al Qaeda presents a clear and present danger to the United States of America.

When Mr. Obama and his team came into office in 2009, al Qaeda in Iraq had been largely defeated, thanks primarily to the heroic efforts of U.S. armed forces during the surge. Mr. Obama had only to negotiate an agreement to leave behind some residual American forces, training and intelligence capabilities to help secure the peace. Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

The tragedy unfolding in Iraq today is only part of the story. Al Qaeda and its affiliates are resurgent across the globe. According to a recent Rand study, between 2010 and 2013, there was a 58% increase in the number of Salafi-jihadist terror groups around the world. During that same period, the number of terrorists doubled.

In the face of this threat, Mr. Obama is busy ushering America's adversaries into positions of power in the Middle East. First it was the Russians in Syria. Now, in a move that defies credulity, he toys with the idea of ushering Iran into Iraq. Only a fool would believe American policy in Iraq should be ceded to Iran, the world's largest state sponsor of terror.

This president is willfully blind to the impact of his policies. Despite the threat to America unfolding across the Middle East, aided by his abandonment of Iraq, he has announced he intends to follow the same policy in Afghanistan.

Despite clear evidence of the dire need for American leadership around the world, the desperation of our allies and the glee of our enemies, President Obama seems determined to leave office ensuring he has taken America down a notch. Indeed, the speed of the terrorists' takeover of territory in Iraq has been matched only by the speed of American decline on his watch.

The president explained his view in his Sept. 23, 2009, speech before the United Nations General Assembly. "Any world order," he said, "that elevates one nation above others cannot long survive." Tragically, he is quickly proving the opposite—through one dangerous policy after another—that without American pre-eminence, there can be no world order.

It is time the president and his allies faced some hard truths: America remains at war, and withdrawing troops from the field of battle while our enemies stay in the fight does not "end" wars. Weakness and retreat are provocative. U.S. withdrawal from the world is disastrous and puts our own security at risk.

Al Qaeda and its affiliates are resurgent and they present a security threat not seen since the Cold War. Defeating them will require a strategy—not a fantasy. It will require sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts—not empty misleading rhetoric. It will require rebuilding America's military capacity—reversing the Obama policies that have weakened our armed forces and reduced our ability to influence events around the world.

American freedom will not be secured by empty threats, meaningless red lines, leading from behind, appeasing our enemies, abandoning our allies, or apologizing for our great nation—all hallmarks to date of the Obama doctrine. Our security, and the security of our friends around the world, can only be guaranteed with a fundamental reversal of the policies of the past six years.

In 1983, President Ronald Reagan said, "If history teaches anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. It means the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom." President Obama is on track to securing his legacy as the man who betrayed our past and squandered our freedom.

Mr. Cheney was U.S. vice president from 2001-09. Ms. Cheney was the deputy assistant secretary of state for near eastern affairs from 2002-04 and 2005-06.


BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 10:31:12 PM »
Dick Cheney, did you really want to go there?
by E.J. DIONNE JR.

The infinitely valuable Yiddish word chutzpah is defined as “shameless audacity” or “impudence.”

It’s singularly appropriate for the astonishing op-ed from former vice president Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz that was published in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday. It’s not every day that a leader of the previous administration suggests that the current president is a “fool” and accuses him of intentionally weakening the United States.

“President Obama seems determined to leave office ensuring he has taken America down a notch,” the Cheneys write. Are they charging our president with treason? “President Obama,” they write, “is on track to securing his legacy as the man who betrayed our past and squandered our freedom.”

Squandered our freedom?

“Only a fool,” they say, “would believe American policy in Iraq should be ceded to Iran, the world’s largest state sponsor of terror.” As if this is what Obama is doing — and as if it weren’t the invasion Cheney so passionately supported that vastly strengthened Iran’s hand long before Obama took office.

The Cheney polemic would be outrageous even if our former vice president’s record on Iraq had been one of absolute clairvoyance. As it happens, he was wrong in almost every prediction he made about the war.

On March 16, 2003, days before the war started, Cheney sat down with the late Tim Russert on NBC’s “Meet the Press” for what still stands as the most revealing of the prewar interviews. Cheney was adamant that “to suggest that we need several hundred thousand troops there after military operations cease, after the conflict ends, I don’t think is accurate. I think that’s an overstatement.”

“We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators,” he famously said and proceeded to play down the very sectarian divisions that are plaguing the country now. Russert asked: “And you are convinced the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites will come together in a democracy?” Cheney replied quickly: “They have so far.” He went on:

“If you look at the opposition, they’ve come together, I think, very effectively, with representatives from Shia, Sunni and Kurdish elements in the population. They understand the importance of preserving and building on an Iraqi national identity. They don’t like to have the U.S., for example, come in and insist on dealing with people sort of on a hyphenated basis — the Iraqi-Shia, Iraqi-Sunni — but rather to focus on Iraq as a nation and all that it can accomplish as a nation, and we try to be sensitive to those concerns. I think the prospects of being able to achieve this kind of success, if you will, from a political standpoint, are probably better than they would be for virtually any other country and under similar circumstances in that part of the world.”

Ah yes, regime change would work out just fine — better than fine. “Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad,” Cheney had told the Veterans of Foreign Wars seven months earlier. “Moderates throughout the region would take heart.” Plus a bonus: “Our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced.” This was the war that would cure all that ailed us.

Thanks to the Cheney op-ed, we can see how Obama’s hawkish critics are out to create a double standard. Whenever they are called out for how mistaken they were about Iraq in the first place, they piously lecture against “relitigating the past” and say we must instead look forward. At the same time, many of them feel perfectly free to trash the president in extreme and even vile terms.

I am all for looking forward and trying to find an approach that squares the many contradictions we face: of needing to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria while also pushing Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to stop pursuing anti-Sunni policies that are empowering the forces we need to turn back; of being on the same side as Iran in Iraq’s current emergency but on opposite sides over Syria; of wanting to avoid steps that will make things worse while not being paralyzed; and of not plunging into the middle of a Shiite-Sunni civil war while trying to stop the region’s descent into chaos.

Obama sees these contradictions and says he won’t act rashly. You don’t have to agree with Obama’s every move to prefer his prudence to the utter certainty that “we will be greeted as liberators” and to a habit of underestimating the costs of military action.

240 is Back

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 04:58:15 AM »
Cheney is worried about his legacy.  Obama might, in a decade, but right now all he cares about is chooming and coke parties with beyonce.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 05:06:19 AM »
Cheney is worried about his legacy.  Obama might, in a decade, but right now all he cares about is chooming and coke parties with beyonce.

Obama is going to go down as worse than W in all respectas and you and every Obama dick sucking twinkle toes lib knows it

Roger Bacon

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 05:17:50 AM »
Cheney is worried about his legacy.  Obama might, in a decade, but right now all he cares about is chooming and coke parties with beyonce.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 08:05:42 AM »
That warped sombitch figures he got away with some serious shit. All out. He's a psychopathic criminal of the worst kind. And when he and Rummie met back in 1968 or so, it was a most tragic day for America.

Just about everyone flatly rejects this fucker, even those that can't say exactly why.

So just goes to show, you can't get away with doing bad things, even if it seems like you're pulling a fast one on the people.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 08:08:06 AM »
He needs to go far away and stay there - same w his daughter. 


BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 09:11:14 AM »
He needs to go far away and stay there - same w his daughter. 

OMG! Has hell frozen over?  ;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 09:12:56 AM »
OMG! Has hell frozen over?  ;D

No - Cheney was a disaster, as is Obama.  Both are psycopaths and NWO shills

TheGrinch

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 09:17:38 AM »
Cheney isnt worried about a damn thing other than his oil buddies interests in Iraq  PERIOD

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 09:20:31 AM »
No - Cheney was a disaster, as is Obama.  Both are psycopaths and NWO shills

You now believe Bush/Cheney was a disaster?  Or was Bush a success and Cheney (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc.) the disaster?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 09:22:25 AM »
You now believe Bush/Cheney was a disaster?  Or was Bush a success and Cheney (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc.) the disaster?

uummm - I was kicked off FR in 2005 for bashing W.   W was a disaster and is the reason that we have Obama in the first place. 

240 is Back

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 09:29:46 AM »
http://rare.us/story/megyn-kelly-slams-dick-cheney-history-has-proven-you-got-it-wrong-on-iraq/

See, everything dick cheney says is awesome.  And everything Megyn Kelly says is awesome. 

Therefore, to resolve the conflict here, I shall declare this live FOX video was digitally created by liberal computer hackers, and it never really happened.

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 01:47:40 PM »
Dick Cheney's amazing chutzpah on Iraq
By Paul Waldman

You have to hand it to Dick Cheney. How many people, knowing what has happened in Iraq over the last 12 years, would dare to write an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal containing this line: "Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many" -- and not be talking about George W. Bush? The man has chutzpah.

The op-ed in question was co-written with Cheney's daughter Liz, former State Department worker and failed Senate candidate. The two are forming a new organization, the Alliance for a Strong America.

Of all the former Bush administration officials who have emerged in the last few days to blame the deteriorating situation in Iraq on Barack Obama, one might think Cheney would be among the last.
It's one thing to turn on your TV and hear that Obama is a dangerous weakling from people like Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol, the ones who told us that war with Iraq would be cheap and easy, then bring a wave of peace and democracy across the Middle East.

But Cheney?

Cheney was the war's chief propagandist, who told the American public more spectacular falsehoods than anyone, including Bush himself. Cheney was the one who told us in 2002 that "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

He's the one who tried to convince us that Saddam Hussein might have helped engineer the September 11 attacks, and who said in 2005 that the insurgency in Iraq was "in its last throes." (The war went on for 6½ more years.)

Cheney had a central role in bringing on a war in which 4,500 Americans gave their lives, tens of thousands more were gravely injured, we spent a couple of trillion dollars, and somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Iraqis died.

Cheney's opinion appears to be that all that death and expense never really happened (he doesn't mention them), and that everything bad in Iraq can only be Obama's fault -- because the Bush administration did such a bang-up job there. "Mr. Obama had only to negotiate an agreement to leave behind some residual American forces, training and intelligence capabilities to help secure the peace," he writes. "Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory."

Would "some residual American forces" have been able to keep a lid on the unending Iraqi civil war that Bush and Cheney so effectively unleashed? We'll never really know, but here's what we do know: The agreement mandating that all American troops leave Iraq by the end of 2011 was signed by one George W. Bush, before Obama took office.

As negotiations over our departure proceeded in Obama's first term, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki -- eager to have the Americans gone so he could consolidate what would turn out to be a corrupt sectarian rule -- refused to grant American troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Without that immunity, there was simply no way American forces could remain there. We've heard many people say Obama "should have pushed harder," but nobody says exactly what that's supposed to mean, or why al-Maliki would have given in, especially considering how he's acted since.

And what does Cheney think we should do now? He doesn't seem to have any idea. The op-ed contains precisely zero recommendations about Iraq. Defeating al Qaeda, it says, "will require a strategy -- not a fantasy." But what is that strategy? "Sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts"? Oh, of course -- if only we had known!

At least he's not alone in his arrogance and befuddlement. None of Obama's other critics seem to have much of an idea what we should do in Iraq, or Syria, or anywhere else. They're happy to say that whatever Obama is doing isn't enough, and it isn't strong. But if you ask them to be specific about what different decisions they would make, you'll be met with hemming and hawing.

That's because there are only bad options for America in Iraq, as is often the case in the Middle East. If you delude yourself into thinking that wars are simple and easy, and all that matters is whether you're "strong," then sometimes things become quite clear. We'll just invade, we'll be "greeted as liberators" (that was Cheney, too), and everyone will live happily ever after.

And when what actually results is not that glorious and easy victory, but a tidal wave of violence and despair, then all you need to do is wait until after you leave office, when you can blame it all on someone else.

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 02:00:11 PM »
The Gall of Dick Cheney
by Charles Blow

The situation in Iraq is truly worrisome, as militants threaten to tear the country asunder and disrupt the fragile, short-lived period absent all-out war there.

We have strategic interests in preventing Iraq from unraveling, not least of which is that we don’t need the country to become a haven for terrorists, particularly those who might see America as a target.

And of course, there is the uneasy subject of oil: Volatility in the region has already sent global oil prices soaring. On Wednesday, militants were said to have taken control of Iraq’s largest oil refinery.

We have to tread carefully here. There are no saints to be seen in this situation. Everyone’s hands are bloody. And, we don’t want to again get mired in a conflict in a country from which we have only recently extricated ourselves.

As we weigh our response, one of the last people who should say anything on the subject is a man who is partly responsible for the problem.

But former Vice President Dick Cheney, who was in the administration that deceived us into a nine-year war in Iraq, just can’t seem to keep his peace.

In an Op-Ed published with his daughter, Liz, in The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, the Cheneys write:

“Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.”

This, from the man who helped lead us into this trumped-up war, searching for nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, a war in which some 4,500 members of the American military were killed, many thousands more injured, and that is running a tab of trillions of dollars.

During the lead-up to the war, Mr. Cheney said to Tim Russert: “I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators.” Nothing could have been further from the truth.

Even if it were indeed rare to be “so wrong,” as Mr. Cheney puts it, he was vice president in an administration that was much more tragically wrong. His whole legacy is wrapped in wrong.

At one point in the article, the Cheneys state:

“Iraq is at risk of falling to a radical Islamic terror group and Mr. Obama is talking climate change. Terrorists take control of more territory and resources than ever before in history, and he goes golfing.”

Mr. Cheney must think that we have all forgotten the scene from “Fahrenheit 9/11,” Michael Moore’s 2004 documentary, in which President George W. Bush, brandishing a club on a golf course, looks into the camera and says,

“I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you.”

That is quickly followed by, “Now, watch this drive,”
and a shot of Bush swinging at the ball.

In fact, on one of the rare occasions that Mr. Cheney was actually right, in 1994, he warned about the problems that would be created by deposing Saddam Hussein:

“Once you got to Iraq and took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. Part of it the Syrians would like to have to the west. Part of eastern Iraq, the Iranians would like to claim, fought over for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. It’s a quagmire.”

That was quite prescient. And yet, the Bush administration pushed us into the Iraq war anyway, and the quagmire we now confront.

That’s why it’s so galling to read Mr. Cheney chastising this administration for its handling of the disaster that Mr. Cheney himself foresaw, but ignored.

I know that we as Americans have short attention spans, but most of us don’t suffer from amnesia. The Bush administration created this mess, and the Obama administration now has to clean it up.

The Cheneys wrote: “This president is willfully blind to the impact of his policies,” Mr. Cheney seemingly oblivious to the irony.

George W. Bush may well have been a disaster of a president (in a 2010 Siena College Research Institute survey, 238 presidential scholars ranked Bush among the five “worst ever” presidents in American history), but at least he has the dignity and grace — or shame and humility — to recede from public life with his family and his painting, and not chide and meddle with the current administration as it tries to right his wrong.

Mr. Cheney, meanwhile, is still trying to bend history toward an exoneration of his guilt and an expunging of his record. But history, on this, is stiff, and his record is written in blood.

chadstallion

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 02:23:43 PM »
it wasn't a good idea to listen to DC in 2003 and it still isn't a good idea today.
w

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 09:14:00 PM »
Shame on you, Dick Cheney, for forgetting who really got us into this Iraq mess
Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz sent some harsh words toward President Obama in a letter printed by The Wall Street Journal. Unfortunately, he forgot his own 'misleading, empty rhetoric' got us involved in Iraq in the first place.
by MIKE LUPICA

So here is an old war profiteer like Dick Cheney, one who received five deferments so as not to serve in Vietnam but couldn’t wait to send young Americans into a war in Iraq first chance he got, writing with his daughter Liz the other day in The Wall Street Journal.

No one is sure why Liz Cheney’s byline was on the piece, other than perhaps her father looking for something for her to do. Or trying to convince the country that she is part of some budding political dynasty.

But the money quote from the two of them, as they assail President Obama for his handling of the current situation in Iraq, is in the first sentence of the second paragraph:

“Rarely has a U.S. President been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.”

Forget that Dick Cheney in particular here does such an embarrassingly bad job of channeling the language of Winston Churchill. Somehow Cheney, as much of a chowderhead about his place in American history as he is about most things, always saw himself as a Churchillian figure. Maybe so. He was carrying around way too much weight once.

All he has become, though, is noise, as he tries to point fingers and change the subject about the wreckage of a doomed policy on Iraq that he helped sell to George W. Bush, one built on the lie Cheney sold as hard as anyone about Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.

In the process, Cheney became every bustout old politician who ever sent American soldiers off to die in the kind of war he never had much interest in fighting himself. Now he thinks that earns him the right to lecture Barack Obama about a situation that Cheney and the Son of Bush helped create, in the most cynical possible way:

Trying to link Saddam Hussein and Iraq to Sept. 11.

“The President is willfully blind to the impact of his policies,” Cheney and his daughter, most recently notable as a failed Senate candidate in Wyoming, write.

No, it was Cheney who was blind to the impact of his own policies, in addition to being arrogant and stupid about the terrible consequences of his actions on Iraq, which ended up killing 4,500 American men and women and wounding nearly 10 times that; and wasting so much money in Iraq that the effects of the decisions they made in the early part of this century will probably still be felt in the next one.

Of course, he is defended by the pep squad boys and girls of the bullhorn media of the right, as if somehow he and Bush were the ones with the right answers about Iraq; as if the only relevant blood is on Obama’s hands, even though it is Obama who inherited this war the way he inherited an economy from Bush and Cheney that put this country into a sinkhole. Through it all, he still sees himself as the voice of reason and patriotism in Iraq.

He wants you to forget that it was his President, George W. Bush, who agreed to withdraw all troops from Iraq by the end of 2011, Bush’s way of procuring a status-of-forces agreement three years earlier. You are supposed to forget that a dim bulb like Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, became a made man in that country on Bush’s watch.

Now all this time later, there is no sound military solution for Obama in Iraq because there is no solution at all. Now Sunni militants are battling for control of the country’s largest oil refinery, in Baiji, about 150 miles from Baghdad, and foreign workers at that refinery are being evacuated. This goes on while Obama tries to figure out a way to prop up Maliki one more time, or last time, with possible air strikes.
“Defeating (our enemies) will require a strategy — not a fantasy,” the Cheneys write. “It will require sustained, difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts — not misleading, empty rhetoric.”

The fantasy, about weapons of mass destruction, actually came 11 years ago, from Cheney and Bush. The misleading, empty rhetoric was theirs. But the Cheneys say in the Journal that our security and the security of our allies can be assured only by the “fundamental reversal of the policies of the past six years.”

Americans who aren’t point-missers realize that the problem isn’t the last six years. The problem is the policies of the six years before Obama took office, and a military strategy that cost us all those American lives, and ruined so many countless others, all because neocons like Cheney needed a war to show the rest of the world how tough he and his President were.

Now here we are. Now Cheney wants to make this Obama’s fault. It is the last lie of the Bush administration, from its war-loving vice president. You know who the bum of Baghdad really is?

Dick Cheney.

RRKore

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2014, 12:17:42 AM »
Shame on you, Dick Cheney, for forgetting who really got us into this Iraq mess
Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz sent some harsh words toward President Obama in a letter printed by The Wall Street Journal. Unfortunately, he forgot his own 'misleading, empty rhetoric' got us involved in Iraq in the first place.
by MIKE LUPICA

So here is an old war profiteer like Dick Cheney, one who received five deferments so as not to serve in Vietnam but couldn’t wait to send young Americans into a war in Iraq first chance he got, writing with his daughter Liz the other day in The Wall Street Journal.

No one is sure why Liz Cheney’s byline was on the piece, other than perhaps her father looking for something for her to do. Or trying to convince the country that she is part of some budding political dynasty.

But the money quote from the two of them, as they assail President Obama for his handling of the current situation in Iraq, is in the first sentence of the second paragraph:

“Rarely has a U.S. President been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.”

Forget that Dick Cheney in particular here does such an embarrassingly bad job of channeling the language of Winston Churchill. Somehow Cheney, as much of a chowderhead about his place in American history as he is about most things, always saw himself as a Churchillian figure. Maybe so. He was carrying around way too much weight once.

All he has become, though, is noise, as he tries to point fingers and change the subject about the wreckage of a doomed policy on Iraq that he helped sell to George W. Bush, one built on the lie Cheney sold as hard as anyone about Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.

In the process, Cheney became every bustout old politician who ever sent American soldiers off to die in the kind of war he never had much interest in fighting himself. Now he thinks that earns him the right to lecture Barack Obama about a situation that Cheney and the Son of Bush helped create, in the most cynical possible way:

Trying to link Saddam Hussein and Iraq to Sept. 11.

“The President is willfully blind to the impact of his policies,” Cheney and his daughter, most recently notable as a failed Senate candidate in Wyoming, write.

No, it was Cheney who was blind to the impact of his own policies, in addition to being arrogant and stupid about the terrible consequences of his actions on Iraq, which ended up killing 4,500 American men and women and wounding nearly 10 times that; and wasting so much money in Iraq that the effects of the decisions they made in the early part of this century will probably still be felt in the next one.

Of course, he is defended by the pep squad boys and girls of the bullhorn media of the right, as if somehow he and Bush were the ones with the right answers about Iraq; as if the only relevant blood is on Obama’s hands, even though it is Obama who inherited this war the way he inherited an economy from Bush and Cheney that put this country into a sinkhole. Through it all, he still sees himself as the voice of reason and patriotism in Iraq.

He wants you to forget that it was his President, George W. Bush, who agreed to withdraw all troops from Iraq by the end of 2011, Bush’s way of procuring a status-of-forces agreement three years earlier. You are supposed to forget that a dim bulb like Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, became a made man in that country on Bush’s watch.

Now all this time later, there is no sound military solution for Obama in Iraq because there is no solution at all. Now Sunni militants are battling for control of the country’s largest oil refinery, in Baiji, about 150 miles from Baghdad, and foreign workers at that refinery are being evacuated. This goes on while Obama tries to figure out a way to prop up Maliki one more time, or last time, with possible air strikes.
“Defeating (our enemies) will require a strategy — not a fantasy,” the Cheneys write. “It will require sustained, difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts — not misleading, empty rhetoric.”

The fantasy, about weapons of mass destruction, actually came 11 years ago, from Cheney and Bush. The misleading, empty rhetoric was theirs. But the Cheneys say in the Journal that our security and the security of our allies can be assured only by the “fundamental reversal of the policies of the past six years.”

Americans who aren’t point-missers realize that the problem isn’t the last six years. The problem is the policies of the six years before Obama took office, and a military strategy that cost us all those American lives, and ruined so many countless others, all because neocons like Cheney needed a war to show the rest of the world how tough he and his President were.

Now here we are. Now Cheney wants to make this Obama’s fault. It is the last lie of the Bush administration, from its war-loving vice president. You know who the bum of Baghdad really is?

Dick Cheney.

That was a fun read.  Thanks.

Article needs to end in "BOOM!" a la vintage SC/333386, though, imo.

Purge_WTF

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2014, 06:24:04 AM »
Cheney's daughter is a chip off the old block, I see.

She repulses me.

BayGBM

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 06:39:46 AM »
Dick Cheney wants to forget history and write his own version
by WALTER PINCUS

Why should anyone take seriously what Dick Cheney says about President Obama’s policy in Iraq?

In their Wall Street Journal op-ed this week, Cheney and his daughter Liz began by cherry- picking Obama quotes from over three years about the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

That warmed-over technique is what Cheney, President George W. Bush and other top aides cleverly used with intelligence reports in the fall of 2002 as they drummed up public support for their invasion of Iraq. That, of course, set the stage for today’s terrible events.

“Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many,” the Cheneys chortled. “Too many times to count, Mr. Obama has told us he is ‘ending’ the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — as though wishing made it so.”

Let’s return to a Dick Cheney speech on Aug. 27, 2002, in Nashville, before the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) and see how many times a vice president could be “so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.”

He told his audience: “In Afghanistan, the Taliban regime and al-Qaeda terrorists have met the fate they chose for themselves. And they saw . . . the new methods and capabilities of America’s armed services.”

Here’s another applause line: “In the case of Osama bin Laden — as President Bush said recently — ‘If he’s alive, we’ll get him. If he’s not alive — we already got him.”

The Bush team never got him. Obama did.

When Cheney was speaking, bin Laden was very much alive. Al-Qaeda terrorists and the Taliban had just retreated, but they were able to regroup as the Bush team, satisfied with its “victory” in Afghanistan, had turned its attention and U.S. military forces toward Iraq.

It was in this speech that Cheney began what a former Bush chief of staff, Andrew Card, would describe as the fall 2002 public-relations plan to “educate the public” about the so-called threat from Iraq. That effort would lead to a congressional joint resolution authorizing the president to use U.S. armed forces to “defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq” and “enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.”

Cheney told the VFW: “The Iraqi regime has in fact been very busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents. And they continue to pursue the nuclear program they began so many years ago.”

He added: “We’ve gotten this from the firsthand testimony of defectors — including Saddam’s own son-in-law, who was subsequently murdered at Saddam’s direction. Many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon.”

A former White House deputy press secretary, Scott McClellan, would later write that a White House Iraq Group (WHIG) was “set up in the summer of 2002 to coordinate the marketing of the [Iraq] war,” and will continue “as a strategic communications group after the invasion had toppled Saddam [Hussein]’s regime.”

It was Cheney at the VFW convention who first said: “Regime change in Iraq would bring about a number of benefits to the region. When the gravest of threats are eliminated, the freedom-loving peoples of the region will have a chance to promote the values that can bring lasting peace.”

He also said: “Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of Jihad. Moderates throughout the region would take heart. And our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced, just as it was following the liberation of Kuwait in 1991.”

Show me a better example of “as though wishing made it so.”

The Cheneys also cavalierly forget that the status of forces agreement with Iraq that Bush signed Dec. 14, 2008, made way for the withdrawal of all U.S. combat troops by the end of 2011. That agreement protected U.S. forces on duty from prosecution by Iraqi courts. It was the Iraqis’ desire to modify this that led Obama — on the advice of his military chiefs — to not leave a residual force of military trainers.

One more sign of the Cheneys’ convenient amnesia: They said of Obama’s initiative toward involving Tehran in the effort to put down ISIS advances in Iraq, “Only a fool would believe American policy in Iraq should be ceded to Iran, the world’s largest sponsor of terror.”

In November 2001, the Bush White House, despite icy relations, approved talking directly to Iran diplomats before and during the Bonn conference called to try to establish a post-Taliban government in Afghanistan. As a result, U.S. Ambassador James Dobbin got what he described as Tehran’s “major contribution to forge a solution” among various Afghan groups, which in turn led to a unified temporary Kabul government under Hamid Karzai.

On Dec. 5, 2001, a White House spokesman described Bush as “very pleased” with the Afghan agreement. However, in his Jan. 29, 2002, State of the Union speech, Bush described Iran, Iraq and North Korea as the “axis of evil” at the same time there were meetings underway between U.S. and Iranian diplomats to see whether talks could go beyond Afghanistan.

In contrast to the Cheneys, people should listen to former secretary of state James Baker III, who in Thursday’s Wall Street Journal called on the United States to organize an international coalition of regional countries, including Iran. Recalling Iran’s cooperation on Afghanistan, Baker said today’s “reality is that Iran is already the most influential external player in Iraq and so any effort without Iranian participation will likely fail.”

Baker has a successful track record and a memory. The Cheneys have neither.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 12:51:26 PM »
His daughter is a Log Cabin Republican?  ???

chadstallion

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2014, 01:54:06 PM »
His daughter is a Log Cabin Republican?  ???
the lesbian one. the other is just a c%$#
w

Roger Bacon

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Re: Maybe listening to Dick Cheney on Iraq isn’t a good idea
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2014, 01:57:07 PM »
the lesbian one. the other is just a c%$#

 ;D