Michael Brown - Discuss the facts and the truth

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Apparantly he did pay for his cigars....there was no robbery according to the second video.

[mr.turbo]

I still think that case has merit here.  While it deals with fleeing suspects, it backs up that the police have a right to shoot if they perceive a threat. It doesn't matter if he is outside the car, 15 feet away, etc... A lot of whiners seem to go on, and on about the distance, etc.... It means nothing.

It's a basic tenet of self defense in both civil and police guidelines. If the officer can clearly articulate that he felt the man was a threat then he has the right to shoot. He can shoot them unarmed, he can shoot them running, etc...  All he has to do is convince one juror.

this precedent established a higher standard to justify shooting/killing someone who is unarmed in the course of a robbery...in theory it's more helpful for the prosecution but I expect the narrative on the police end will be crafted around it because it's a standard.

 

[mr.turbo]

The judges ruling doesn't matter in terms of the Brown shooting unless you believe Brown was shot in the back while fleeing.  None of the evidence indicates that's what happened.  You can't equate the two cases when they are different.

I didn't post this I was just responding to it.  The point is it raised the bar in use of lethal force scenarios in general.

[jude2]

Apparantly he did pay for his cigars....there was no robbery according to the second video.

What  second video?  WHy did he push the store clerk like that?

[HavoX]

Someone sent me this

[BB]

Someone sent me this

Ha, this one is going around too -

.

Also this one of the Hair place being looted -

.

[tonymctones]

Apparantly he did pay for his cigars....there was no robbery according to the second video.

link

[SOMEPARTS]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-18/protesters-storm-governors-office-downtown-st-louis-demand-removal-national-guard

[240 is Back]

this town is WILD!   Police have been making $$$$ with lots of arrests.  Sounds like they really messed with a lot of people.  Stopping jaywalkers, it makes sense.  

Ferguson. In 2013 the town issued over 24,000 arrest warrants..

In a town with 21,000 people... Yes you saw those numbers right.

“Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of 2,635,400,” according to the ArchCity Defenders report. And in 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court issued 24,532 arrest warrants and 12,018 cases, “or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.”

http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-profiling-police-courts-shooting-264744

[240 is Back]

link

Not sure what is shown here, not sure of authenticity.  Some are accusing Ferguson PD of creatively editing the video, leaving this part out. only showing the part where the owner accuses him of shoftlifting and they scrap.    No idea if this is credible or even him, but this is the video everyone is talking about

[Schnauzer]

Not sure what is shown here, not sure of authenticity.  Some are accusing Ferguson PD of creatively editing the video, leaving this part out. only showing the part where the owner accuses him of shoftlifting and they scrap.    No idea if this is credible or even him, but this is the video everyone is talking about

I don't see Brown paying for anything. If he did, why would the store clerk immediately come around from behind the counter? Why were the police called?

[240 is Back]

I don't see Brown paying for anything. If he did, why would the store clerk immediately come around from behind the counter? Why were the police called?

what they're saying - and it's only the blogs, so I have no idea on the credibility -

is that he paid for SOME but clerk thought he stole something else.  went to door to demand he pay, and brown took exception and it got physical. 

IF that's the case, it shades things differently.  If I pay, and someone accuses me, I get hot very fast.  Get the #(@#& out of my face, I paid.  Don't insult me like that.    Etc


Maybe the Ferguson PD will revert to the ORIGINAL statement that they were just busting him as a jaywalker, not as a robber.  They like to bounce back ad forth when politically convenient.

[jude2]

1103 and it is about to go down.

[240 is Back]

1103 and it is about to go down.

wow... it's really messy out there.   I'm getting caught up on the story now.

Shoot looks legal.   The statement changed about "Why" they stopped him - looks like they just busted him for jaywalking and maybe the robbery came up, maybe not.

The town is really a militarized zone... police arrest people a TON there.  And they make a ton of $ from it.  They have new vehicles and toys, and the schools in that area have very little.

So this has been building for a while, the people are protesting a perpetual police state?

IS THIS ACCURATE?    Usually I feel strongly on issues.  Aside from police changing important details about what started it all, I don't know what to think here.

[Schnauzer]

what they're saying - and it's only the blogs, so I have no idea on the credibility -

is that he paid for SOME but clerk thought he stole something else.  went to door to demand he pay, and brown took exception and it got physical. 

IF that's the case, it shades things differently.  If I pay, and someone accuses me, I get hot very fast.  Get the #(@#& out of my face, I paid.  Don't insult me like that.    Etc


Maybe the Ferguson PD will revert to the ORIGINAL statement that they were just busting him as a jaywalker, not as a robber.  They like to bounce back ad forth when politically convenient.

I don't know, this seems to be more than "I paid", "No, you didn't".

[The True Adonis]

wow... it's really messy out there.   I'm getting caught up on the story now.

Shoot looks legal.   The statement changed about "Why" they stopped him - looks like they just busted him for jaywalking and maybe the robbery came up, maybe not.

The town is really a militarized zone... police arrest people a TON there.  And they make a ton of $ from it.  They have new vehicles and toys, and the schools in that area have very little.

So this has been building for a while, the people are protesting a perpetual police state?

IS THIS ACCURATE?    Usually I feel strongly on issues.  Aside from police changing important details about what started it all, I don't know what to think here.

Why would you be shocked at the amount of arrests?  That town is a shithole made up of criminals.

[HavoX]

wow... it's really messy out there.   I'm getting caught up on the story now.

Shoot looks legal.   The statement changed about "Why" they stopped him - looks like they just busted him for jaywalking and maybe the robbery came up, maybe not.

The town is really a militarized zone... police arrest people a TON there.  And they make a ton of $ from it.  They have new vehicles and toys, and the schools in that area have very little.

So this has been building for a while, the people are protesting a perpetual police state?

IS THIS ACCURATE?    Usually I feel strongly on issues.  Aside from police changing important details about what started it all, I don't know what to think here.

The way I understand it, the shiny new police toys are military surplus that must be utilized within one year or returned...  Army doesn't have surplus textbooks etc.  but the arrests and financials of that town seem crazy!! Like deadwood crazy...

[polychronopolous]

Apparantly he did pay for his cigars....there was no robbery according to the second video.

What if that had been Caliber Fitness that he had walked into and started pushing people around?

I promise you wouldn't be singing your same tune.

[240 is Back]

rachel maddow just made the street drama reporter go silent... maddow asked if the protesters are only acting this way due to the presence of the media/cameras on them.

LOL  the reporter literally stopped responding to her.  maddow keeping it oddly conservative with that Q.

[Schnauzer]

The way I understand it, the shiny new police toys are military surplus that must be utilized within one year or returned...  Army doesn't have surplus textbooks etc.  but the arrests and financials of that town seem crazy!! Like deadwood crazy...

It seems to be working

In 2008, the town's crime rate was significantly higher than the state average, but since then, violent crime has consistently dropped each year. There were 163 instances of violent crime in Ferguson in 2008 and only 80 in 2012, according to FBI data.  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/14/ferguson-police-department-details/14064451/

[BB]

The way I understand it, the shiny new police toys are military surplus that must be utilized within one year or returned...  Army doesn't have surplus textbooks etc.  but the arrests and financials of that town seem crazy!! Like deadwood crazy...

I'm not sure about the 1 year requirement for the 1033 military surplus program, but there is a rule like that for anti-terror funds that go to smaller police departments, so you get them buying all types of things and attending all types of programs that you wouldn't expect.

Someone mentioned on another board that the way taxes are spent and received there is interesting too , it's sort of explained here -

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-08-15/how-st-dot-louis-countys-map-explains-fergusons-racial-discord .

[The Ugly]

rachel maddow just made the street drama reporter go silent... maddow asked if the protesters are only acting this way due to the presence of the media/cameras on them.

LOL  the reporter literally stopped responding to her.  maddow keeping it oddly conservative with that Q.

 

Dude, you watch that channel?

[polychronopolous]

rachel maddow just made the street drama reporter go silent... maddow asked if the protesters are only acting this way due to the presence of the media/cameras on them.

LOL  the reporter literally stopped responding to her.  maddow keeping it oddly conservative with that Q.

I stopped reading after the first 2 words

[Roger Bacon]

 

Dude, you watch that channel?

I seriously try to but they make me physically ill, like I seriously almost threw up watching that idiot before Maddow.

[The Ugly]

I seriously try to but they make me physically ill, like I seriously almost threw up watching that idiot before Maddow.

Totally understand, but Rob posted it, I was asking him.

No offense, Rog.