Genesis 28:17

[IrishMuscle84]

" How amazing is this place...............This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven "...................Cant wait 

[Man of Steel]

I can't wait to be with my savior either and see and speak to him face to face!!   

The splendor of heaven and the fear of hell takes an absolute backseat when I consider the transforming power of Christ in my life and what he did on Calvary's cross for all of us.

[avxo]

" How amazing is this place...............This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven "...................Cant wait 

You can't wait and yet you don't kill yourself to accelerate the process... I smell hypocrisy.

[Man of Steel]

You can't wait and yet you don't kill yourself to accelerate the process... I smell hypocrisy.

It's the Lord's will and his good time that we adhere to.  He calls his church home.

[avxo]

It's the Lord's will and his good time that we adhere to.  He calls his church home.

Right... right. In other words:

When good things happens your answer is "Praise the Lord for he has blessed us!" And when bad things happen your answer is "Praise the Lord for he works in mysterious ways."

When you want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must do this. I am only a humble servant to His will." And when you don't want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must not do this. I am only a humble servant to his His will."

In other words, you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You're hoping people won't notice - or won't call you on it. I am not going to play your game. Again, I repeat my assertion: if you believe so strongly in an afterlife where you will be close to your God - which is what you, presumably, value the most - you would be looking for ways to get from where you are to where - alive - you need to be - dead.

[Man of Steel]

Right... right. In other words:

When good things happens your answer is "Praise the Lord for he has blessed us!" And when bad things happen your answer is "Praise the Lord for he works in mysterious ways."

When you want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must do this. I am only a humble servant to His will." And when you don't want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must not do this. I am only a humble servant to his His will."

In other words, you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You're hoping people won't notice - or won't call you on it. I am not going to play your game. Again, I repeat my assertion: if you believe so strongly in an afterlife where you will be close to your God - which is what you, presumably, value the most - you would be looking for ways to get from where you are to where - alive - you need to be - dead.

To preface, your "in other words" reply is composed of your words....not mine.  On that we must be very clear.  

You have your definite rationale (which I grasp), but force fitting me into it doesn't make it correct.  Now, since you've veered to an adjacent topic I'm going to take a simple step backwards and revisit your initial premise to keep us on track.  

We can revisit your "in other words" later on if you don't mind.

You can't wait and yet you don't kill yourself to accelerate the process... I smell hypocrisy.

What is hypocritical about a believer not committing suicide (regardless of how much they want to be with God)?

Explain the hypocrisy to me first please.  I actually thought that reply was more of you just joking around.

[Archer77]

You can't wait and yet you don't kill yourself to accelerate the process... I smell hypocrisy.

God put every man and woman on this earth for a reason.  To end your life before you find that reason would be an affront to god.  There are many good works left to be accomplished on earth.  One of the good works is to spread Gods message of love and salvation.  Use your time wisely.

[avxo]

God put every man and woman on this earth for a reason.  To end your life before you find that reason would be an affront to god.  There are many good works left to be accomplished on earth.  One of the good works is to spread Gods message of love and salvation.  Use your time wisely.

How do you know that ending your life right now isn't part of God's plan and to not end it is the affront to God?

[Archer77]

How do you know that ending your life right now isn't part of God's plan and to not[/i] end it is the affront to God?

Because we have free will.

[avxo]

I see... so God has a plan for you that must be followed that's just fine, but if that plan includes ending your life that's a big nono because "free will"!

[Archer77]

I see... so God has a plan for you that must be followed that's just fine, but if that plan includes ending your life that's a big nono because "free will"!

Ending your life is a selfish act.  God granted you life and to take it prematurely by your own free will would be an affront to god and the gift of life he gave you.   Choosing to die of your own volition is different than god deciding its your time. 

[Man of Steel]

How do you know that ending your life right now isn't part of God's plan and to not end it is the affront to God?

I understand you were speaking to Archer, but I have a personal experience that gives me very definite clarity in this regard.  It's part of my testimony that I occassionally share with others because it's often hard for others that have not experienced Christ to understand.  Some call it "hocus pocus" or "cult magic nonsense".....that doesn't matter to me though.  

Back in August 2010 I was thinking of ending my life.  I was injured, my health was suffering, I was fully depressed and I basically had a foot in the grave.   In an act of desperation I decided to throw my arms in the air and say "Lord, I surrender to your will for my life.  I belief and will serve you."  A second later the Holy Spirit filled that room with such a thick presence it was like moving through water or dense air (best I can describe).  From the tip top of my injury down to the very base it began to tingle and immediately my depression left me....just like that.  From that moment forward I began a new journey and faithful walk with the Lord.  

I continued my recovery for a couple more months and during that private time I repeatedly experienced the strong, overwhelming presence of Christ.  To this day the Holy Spirit is with me.  Not quite as strong as before, but I think that period of time where it was just me and the Lord that I needed to heal my spirit and heal my body.  Today I continue to share the love Christ showed me with others.  I don't know when he'll call me home, but I'm not worried about it.  I may die screaming in agony next week or I may die in absolute peace in my sleep surrounded by loved ones at 92.  Still, I know his reality and that one day I'll meet him face to face.  He's purposed me exactly like he has other believers....to help plant seeds for his glory and to be a fisher of men.  I try to do so faithfully.  

[avxo]

Ending your life is a selfish act.  God granted you life and to take it prematurely by your own free will would be an affront to god and the gift of life he gave you.   Choosing to die of your own volition is different than god deciding its your time.

For the sake of argument, I'll assume that God granted you life, etc, etc.

So it is your contention that God's plan would never involve an individual taking their own life. Don't you think it's a little presumptuous of you to say what is and isn't part of God's plan, especially when a core tenet of your belief system is that God works in mysterious ways that humans cannot always understand.

[loco]

How do you know that ending your life right now isn't part of God's plan and to not end it is the affront to God?

avxo, I've read the Bible before.  I don't remember ever seeing a verse where God commands anyone to commit suicide.  The Bible does place value in being killed by others for following Jesus Christ, or to lay down one's own life to save another.  Other than that, the Bible is full of commands for Christians to live, much more than to die, a holy and productive life for Jesus Christ.

That is how Christians know that committing suicide to expedite going to Heaven is not God's plan for any Christian.

[Archer77]

For the sake of argument, I'll assume that God granted you life, etc, etc.

So it is your contention that God's plan would never involve an individual taking their own life. Don't you think it's a little presumptuous of you to say what is and isn't part of God's plan, especially when a core tenet of your belief system is that God works in mysterious ways that humans cannot always understand.

God didn't grant me life Im an atheist.

[avxo]

God didn't grant me life Im an atheist.

Oh. I don't recall seeing you in the meeting last week.

[Irongrip400]

Right... right. In other words:

When good things happens your answer is "Praise the Lord for he has blessed us!" And when bad things happen your answer is "Praise the Lord for he works in mysterious ways."

When you want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must do this. I am only a humble servant to His will." And when you don't want to do something your reasoning is "Praise the Lord, for through prayer I know that I must not do this. I am only a humble servant to his His will."

In other words, you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You're hoping people won't notice - or won't call you on it. I am not going to play your game. Again, I repeat my assertion: if you believe so strongly in an afterlife where you will be close to your God - which is what you, presumably, value the most - you would be looking for ways to get from where you are to where - alive - you need to be - dead.

It's alot like psychology. I learned that in school, they always had an excuse when it didn't go their way. It seems people are always looking for explanations. I have no objection to someone trying to explain something happening, as that is what gets science rolling, looking for answers. Now, if this journey leads to mass beheadings, and justifying other abhorrent acts, then I must draw the line. But, I have no real issue with people practicing religion to give them a sense of inner peace and strength. Just my two cents.

[Archer77]

Oh. I don't recall seeing you in the meeting last week.

I was there.  I came late and sat in the back.  My father in-law is pretty religious.  He's deathly afraid to fly because he thinks he might die.  I actually asked him once if he was so sure that heaven was real and he was getting in why he was so afraid of dying.  He didn't have an answer.

[Man of Steel]

I was there.  I came late and sat in the back.  My father in-law is pretty religious.  He's deathly afraid to fly because he thinks he might die.  I actually asked him once if he was so sure that heaven was real and he was getting in why he was so afraid of dying.  He didn't have an answer.

I don't fear death because I know what lies ahead; although I'd prefer not to die in agonizing pain and terror...even if it's extremely brief. 

[Archer77]

I don't fear death because I know what lies ahead; although I'd prefer not to die in agonizing pain and terror...even if it's extremely brief. 

Good man.  I appreciate the consistency.

[Irongrip400]

I was there.  I came late and sat in the back.  My father in-law is pretty religious.  He's deathly afraid to fly because he thinks he might die.  I actually asked him once if he was so sure that heaven was real and he was getting in why he was so afraid of dying.  He didn't have an answer.

My mother has no fear of death, because she's ultra religious and believes she's going to heaven. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to "plug into the Matrix" and believe. She's always happy no matter what. 

[Man of Steel]

My mother has no fear of death, because she's ultra religious and believes she's going to heaven. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to "plug into the Matrix" and believe. She's always happy no matter what.  

Most of the time I'm pretty happy as well.  I don't smile like Joel Osteen all day long, but the work the Lord has done in my life has certainly changed my outlook. 

If you don't mind me asking, are you an atheist or an agnostic or just undecided?

[avxo]

I don't fear death because I know what lies ahead; although I'd prefer not to die in agonizing pain and terror...even if it's extremely brief. 

No. You don't know. You think you know. Words have meaning.

[Man of Steel]

No. You don't know. You think you know. Words have meaning.

Words do have meaning and therefore I'll clarify mine....I absolutely know the reality of the Lord and the truth of his word and the security of my salvation.

I possess an understanding you simply do not.  It comes with surrendering to will of the Lord and accepting who he is and what he did.

I am sorry if that offends anyone....not my intent.  I do understand that some folks find a believer's confidence to be very arrogant.  

I assure you I boast only in Christ because on my own I'm meaningless.

[avxo]

I possess an understanding you simply do not.  It comes with surrendering to will of the Lord and accepting who he is and what he did.

No, sorry. You don't possess an "understanding" of anything. You claim that you received knowledge through some unknowable means, but your "knowledge" can't actually explain anything. Tell me one fact that you have learned through the unknowable means that you claim are available to you that I can verify without first needing to accept anything on faith. If you can't do that, then you don't have knowledge.

I am sorry if that offends anyone....not my intent.  I do understand that some folks find a believer's confidence to be very arrogant.

I don't find it arrogant per se. I find it stupid for one very simple reason: even if you are completely convinced about your beliefs - and I don't doubt that you are - your testimony is meaningless. You have accepted something on faith, and even if your particular faith is right, you cannot, by definition, convince anyone of it since you eschewed the use of logic when you agreed to substitute it with faith.

I assure you I boast only in Christ because on my own I'm meaningless.

I'm sure your Lord is pleased by your unworthiness, but it only makes me more likely to completely ignore what you say.