Author Topic: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?  (Read 9072 times)

polychronopolous

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Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« on: August 18, 2014, 07:40:28 AM »
Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?

What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?

These officers seem to be in favor of it.


Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 08:22:25 AM »
Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?

What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?

These officers seem to be in favor of it.



Austin went to cameras in the vehicles years ago. It's recently been updated to digital. It's costly for a department to do it and it's likely many cities can't afford it. I along with the officers I work with are 100% for the cameras. They have proven us right in complaints exponentially more than they've proven us wrong. These days if something isn't recorded the cops are usually automatically doubted as in the current national issue. Had that car had video and audio it would be easy to establish what happened. Though it is my experience 2 people can look at the same video and draw different conclusions, at least it's there for rational people to make an informed decision.

Some of our officers have purchased their own body cameras due to the limitations on the car cameras and they have come into play as well. I support body and car cameras for police.   

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 08:23:03 AM »
I think so. They have vehicle cameras, why not uniform cameras? Keep them accountable. They're a little different than others, tbwyre supposed to be held to a hogher syandard considering thwyre supposed to be public servants and protectors.. I bet the number of incidents would drastically reduce.

Oh, amd instant termination if they cover of disconnect their camera for any reason.

Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 08:38:08 AM »
So why is it some cops donīt like being filmed from members of the Public? works both ways and i have seen more than enough cops beating people filmed from people. not a Cop Hater just asking your opinion.

That's a good question. Just my opinion here but I think some of it is ignorance of the law concerning recording. Some of it is out of anxiety and fear during a situation, not thinking things through. It's the epitome of stupid to tell someone to stop recording. You can direct them to move out of the way if they are interferring, but you can't make them stop recording. I'm sure there are times when an officer knows he is doing something wrong and is not wanting to be recorded, but I don't think that actually comes into play in most cases. I've been recorded a number of times and my only concern is "does this level 2 vest make me look fat?"

avxo

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 01:18:33 PM »
That's a good question. Just my opinion here but I think some of it is ignorance of the law concerning recording. Some of it is out of anxiety and fear during a situation, not thinking things through. It's the epitome of stupid to tell someone to stop recording. You can direct them to move out of the way if they are interferring, but you can't make them stop recording. I'm sure there are times when an officer knows he is doing something wrong and is not wanting to be recorded, but I don't think that actually comes into play in most cases. I've been recorded a number of times and my only concern is "does this level 2 vest make me look fat?"

This made me laugh. Just hit a rear double bi, then do a quad sweep, complete with the leg shake and the hand showing off the striations. Then, in an authoritative voice say, "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to step back. I'm about to do a most muscular."

RagingBull

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 02:06:42 PM »
The good thing is that the device resulted in a 60% reduction in use of force by officers.  The only negative thing I can think of is that the officer may be reluctant to use force in instances where such force is necessary for fear of the recording and the ramifications thereof.  In essence, this may lead to officers freezing during times when use of force is required.

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 03:21:47 PM »
I love the idea.  And yes, I could see in a HUGE drop in getting physical from coppers.

I had a cop pull me over last weekend... licence plate light bulb blew out.   "Hello sir, I'm John Smith with the XYZ Police department". super polite.  no ticket.  even joked around about the gun permit "I hope you don't pull that bazooka out, I'm only packing a 40 caliber here". 

RagingBull, as far as a cop freezing up - I think veteran cops would drill the rookies harder on when to act, when to not act.  If a cop worries about it a lot, he'll prepare mentally for it and know the law book 1000%.   As it is, they wing it most of the time because, well, nobody is going to question them for it.

tonymctones

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 04:11:15 PM »
absolutely they need to be wearing cameras.

If you want to use cameras to video tape someone running a red light your ass better have one on you to make sure you dont violate my rights.

polychronopolous

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 04:16:42 PM »
absolutely they need to be wearing cameras.

If you want to use cameras to video tape someone running a red light your ass better have one on you to make sure you dont violate my rights.

It just seems like a win/win for The Police and The Citizens.

Agnostic007 made the case of the cost side of it but I just couldn't imagine that the proposal to financially back it wouldn't pass if put forth to the town citizens to vote on.

tonymctones

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2014, 04:18:37 PM »
It just seems like a win/win for The Police and The Citizens.

Agnostic007 made the case of the cost side of it but I just couldn't imagine that the proposal to financially back it wouldn't pass if put forth to the town citizens to vote on.
hahah trust me I dont see many towns at all not being ok with footing the bill for something like this. If what was posted in the other thread is true about a reduction in abuse claims then I imagine it would save money in the long run.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 04:32:53 PM »
Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?

What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?

These officers seem to be in favor of it.





Yes.  But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.

If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off.  Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.


I think the real change needs to be this whole mentality that just because a cop tells you to do something, you should be expected to obey your master without question.  They rely on this mentality in courts where they justify these harsh and excessive uses of force.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 04:35:56 PM »
hahah trust me I dont see many towns at all not being ok with footing the bill for something like this. If what was posted in the other thread is true about a reduction in abuse claims then I imagine it would save money in the long run.


Agreed, when you factor in cost to maintain and training.

And there has to be tons of training, cause we all know the second something goes wrong, they'll claim they weren't properly trained.  Probably need a yearly 5-day stint in Hawaii to get 'properly' trained, lol.   :D

tonymctones

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 04:37:00 PM »


Yes.  But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.

If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off.  Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.
cant do that, unless there is a way to make sure they dont turn them on and off at will then they need to be on all the time. The footage should be held internally unless needed so the public ideally would never see instances like they one you mentioned.

If they can turn them on and off then there will be instances where they forget b/c they are human.

Archer77

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 04:40:28 PM »
Wouldn't matter.   The conspiracy nuts would accuse the police of doctoring the footage.
A

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 04:46:07 PM »
cant do that, unless there is a way to make sure they dont turn them on and off at will then they need to be on all the time. The footage should be held internally unless needed so the public ideally would never see instances like they one you mentioned.

If they can turn them on and off then there will be instances where they forget b/c they are human.


I'd have to think about that one.  Maybe with sufficient controls and protections, that may be a good idea.  I think I would be worried they would get caught up in a FOIA request or broad subpoena.


tonymctones

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2014, 05:01:20 PM »

I'd have to think about that one.  Maybe with sufficient controls and protections, that may be a good idea.  I think I would be worried they would get caught up in a FOIA request or broad subpoena.


I would think there is a way to have the automatically turned on when they report they are on a call or pulled someone over.

tonymctones

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2014, 05:04:45 PM »
If you guys have never heard of the Hawthorne effect you should look into it. The concept plays into this discussion very well.

The idea is that a group of psychologist wanted to see if different types of lights made workers more or less productive. After trying a number of different lights they noticed that they all seemed to have a positive effect on productivity. They then realized that it wasnt the lights it was the fact that the workers were aware they were being video taped and altered their behavior.

I would think the same type of thing would happen here.

avxo

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2014, 05:15:03 PM »
Wouldn't matter.   The conspiracy nuts would accuse the police of doctoring the footage.

Trivial to prevent this from happening. Simply have the device internally generate a SHA-2 or SHA-3 checksum for every keyframe (or more frequently) which includes the data in the frame and the SHA-2 or SHA-3 checkum of the previous frame. Problem solved, since now the authenticity of every key-frame starting from the first frame can be assured and the probability of a successful doctoring can be precisely quantified and would be infinitesimally small.

Archer77

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2014, 05:37:40 PM »
Trivial to prevent this from happening. Simply have the device internally generate a SHA-2 or SHA-3 checksum for every keyframe (or more frequently) which includes the data in the frame and the SHA-2 or SHA-3 checkum of the previous frame. Problem solved, since now the authenticity of every key-frame starting from the first frame can be assured and the probability of a successful doctoring can be precisely quantified and would be infinitesimally small.

I was joking but that wouldn't matter at all.
A

avxo

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2014, 05:43:16 PM »
I was joking but that wouldn't matter at all.

I figured. And I know it wouldn't matter for the insane people. But this sort of technique could convince the rest of us that the police aren't tampering with the video, something which I wouldn't put past them.

Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 10:40:48 AM »
Our in car cameras are set to start when 1. We manually turn them on 2. Impact over 5 mph 3. Driver door opens 4. Speed over 90 mph. They record starting 30 seconds prior to being initiated. I could see the body mics having the same type of auto on. When in car goes on, body cam goes on. I'm not tech geek but I'll bet it can be done. 

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2014, 10:43:04 AM »
Our in car cameras are set to start when 1. We manually turn them on 2. Impact over 5 mph 3. Driver door opens 4. Speed over 90 mph. They record starting 30 seconds prior to being initiated. I could see the body mics having the same type of auto on. When in car goes on, body cam goes on. I'm not tech geek but I'll bet it can be done. 

yeah, a russian taxi driver can't hit a curb without it being on youtube.  But cops waste people iN USA all the time and there's no video?   

I mean, on getbig I saw a goPro titty workout video last night lol.   But no brown shooting?

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2014, 05:09:16 AM »
Would it help to prevent future backlash such as in the Michael Brown incident?

What concerns would the citizens have if this was a Nationwide policy?

These officers seem to be in favor of it.




Wouldn't change anything.....
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Shockwave

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2014, 05:41:51 AM »
I figured. And I know it wouldn't matter for the insane people. But this sort of technique could convince the rest of us that the police aren't tampering with the video, something which I wouldn't put past them.
The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2014, 05:01:45 AM »
The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'

put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.

seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police.  Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".

No, they take an oath.  Get a cilivian in there running the PD.  A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs.  Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.