Author Topic: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?  (Read 9076 times)

Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2014, 11:09:02 AM »
put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.

seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police.  Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".

No, they take an oath.  Get a cilivian in there running the PD.  A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs.  Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.

Wouldn't work. I see civillian comments all the time that are so stupid I wonder how they get dressed in the mornings when it comes to how a police officer shoulda woulda coulda handled X situation. The better solution is to have rules on place on the cameras like we have. There are strict guidelines on when you can turn our cameras off. There is no lost footage because it is uploaded to a server. You couldn't get something erased if you wanted to, once it's recorded, its forever there. Now if an officer is in a critical incident and it is not video taped, then it is looked at as to why not. If its an oversight, I got out to use the bathroom, this guy attacked me from nowhere and I didn't have time to activate my camera ( can't recall this ever happening but let's just say..) then that's one thing. but if the camera should have been on and they forgot to turn it on then it is a suspension. If it appears they purposely turned it off before the event they are fired. Been working pretty well so far.   

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2014, 11:26:52 AM »
Locally, today, there was an incident in south florida.  A cop hit a 15 year old kid on a bike this morning.   No details yet, kid is on life support.  cop car and bike, etc all impounded.  MAJOR skid marks in the 45mph zone where it happened. 

I'm not sure if the dash cam would catch the speed (they all have them).  I don't know what happens if the cop is going 60 or 65 in a 45 and hits a kid.  Even if the kid was cutting across the road, it was a wide open road, not a lot of visual obstruction.  I dont know if a cop speeding, and kid "jaywalking" on a bike, who gets the blame.  I mean, if a drunk driver hits a jaywalker, they charge the drunk, even if the jaywalker was in the wrong spot? 

Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2014, 11:39:14 AM »
Locally, today, there was an incident in south florida.  A cop hit a 15 year old kid on a bike this morning.   No details yet, kid is on life support.  cop car and bike, etc all impounded.  MAJOR skid marks in the 45mph zone where it happened. 

I'm not sure if the dash cam would catch the speed (they all have them).  I don't know what happens if the cop is going 60 or 65 in a 45 and hits a kid.  Even if the kid was cutting across the road, it was a wide open road, not a lot of visual obstruction.  I dont know if a cop speeding, and kid "jaywalking" on a bike, who gets the blame.  I mean, if a drunk driver hits a jaywalker, they charge the drunk, even if the jaywalker was in the wrong spot? 

I don't know about their system but ours has GPS tracking and the speed would be known. Had a local officer who was looking at his in car computer screen at a stop sign in a residential area. Was distracted and didn't see the motorcycle coming throught the intersection and pulled right out in front of him. Guy was banged up but the cop was clearly at fault. As far as speeding in a 45, our policy says we follow traffic laws unless we are in code 2 or 3, which is lights and or siren so if he was speeding without those that is a problem. I hope the kid pulls out. As far as drunk hitting jaywalker, actually happened here... drunk was charged with the dwi and nothing else because the other person was illegally in the roadway. But again, that could vary by court jurisdiction on getting charged..unlikely there would be a conviction

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 11:47:03 AM »
The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'



There WILL be attempted abuse and abuse, but it would still help to improve things, IMO.

But there are situations not appropriate for recording that will have to be dealt with.


Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 11:57:40 AM »


Yes.  But as with anything else, there must be strict guidelines with officers held PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE.

If they need to go into a private residence for non criminal activity - like say telling a family member that someone died in a car accident - or interviewing rape victims in an emergency room, they need to turn the shit off.  Get back outside, need to turn the thing back on without a bunch of 'I forgot excuses'.


I think the real change needs to be this whole mentality that just because a cop tells you to do something, you should be expected to obey your master without question.  They rely on this mentality in courts where they justify these harsh and excessive uses of force.


WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM DEACTIVATION IS AUTHORIZED
Once the BWDR system is activated it shall remain on until the incident has concluded.
(a) For purposes of this section, conclusion of an incident has occurred when:
(a) All arrests have been made and arrestees have been transported; and
(b) All witnesses and victims have been interviewed.
(b) Recording may cease if no further law enforcement action is likely to occur (e.g.,
waiting for a tow truck or a family member to arrive.)
303.2.3 WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM USE IS NOT REQUIRED
Activation of the BWDR system is not required:
(a) During break and lunch periods
(b) When not in service and not on a call
(c) When in service but not on a call.



Cops rarely make death notifications these days. Our department does it via Victim Services civillian and chaplain if done by us at all. So that wouldn't be an issue.   

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2014, 12:14:33 PM »
cool info, thanks.   there has been a media blackout on it, but word has slowly leaked.  police weren't saying anything.  Local media were climbing thru canals to get around police roadblocks.


Cop told resident everything was fine, while the kid was either under his car or launched.  I guess that's his job.  Either way, very scary.


CAPE CORAL: -
Authorities are investigating an early morning crash on Kismet Parkway in Cape Coral that involved a Lee County Sheriff's Office deputy and a bicyclist.  

A 15-year-old was transported to a Tampa hospital.

The investigation blocked traffic for hours between NW 6th Place and NW 7th Place, but all roadways have reopened.
 
When our crews arrived on scene, the BMX-style bicycle was lodged under the patrol car. A forensics team also removed a backpack from the scene.
 
Witnesses tell us an ambulance drove someone away at around 6 a.m. We learned that person suffered serious injuries during the crash.
 
"All she heard was a loud screech and bang, she ran outside to see what happened and she asked the cop if he was OK cause she thought something happened to him. He said he was fine, 10 minutes later a swarm of cops came, shut down the whole street," explained Nicholes Quinones, who rushed outside after hearing the crash.
 
The names of the people involved have not been released. The investigation is ongoing.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 01:44:44 PM »
WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM DEACTIVATION IS AUTHORIZED
Once the BWDR system is activated it shall remain on until the incident has concluded.
(a) For purposes of this section, conclusion of an incident has occurred when:
(a) All arrests have been made and arrestees have been transported; and
(b) All witnesses and victims have been interviewed.
(b) Recording may cease if no further law enforcement action is likely to occur (e.g.,
waiting for a tow truck or a family member to arrive.)
303.2.3 WHEN DEPARTMENT ISSUED BWDR SYSTEM USE IS NOT REQUIRED
Activation of the BWDR system is not required:
(a) During break and lunch periods
(b) When not in service and not on a call
(c) When in service but not on a call.



Cops rarely make death notifications these days. Our department does it via Victim Services civillian and chaplain if done by us at all. So that wouldn't be an issue.   


I've seen then show up at my friends sister's death, even though only EMS was called, and the neighbor across the street when they called for her insulin attack, again only EMS.

You can split hairs on my examples however you want, regardless of whether they are notifying, supporting, bored, or whatever - my point remains.  There are circumstances where it is probably inappropriate for you all to be recording. 

As long as the circumstances are addressed, video is a great idea.

I heard on the news on Friday some city/department that was showing a huge drop in claims against the cops.  I'll post if I come across it.


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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2014, 01:52:04 PM »
I heard on the news on Friday some city/department that was showing a huge drop in claims against the cops.  I'll post if I come across it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/14/nypd-body-camera_n_3756828.html

NYPD is about to start using them.  Bloomberg is pissed, said it's an invasion of privacy.  This mayor, who is okay with limiting soda size, in a town with tens of thousands of cameras everywhere, is worried about privacy?  lol

No, Bloomy knows we're gonna see a rash of abuse of civilians rights, some high profile firings, then things will be cleaned up.  He doesn't wanna be the face/mayor of the corruption and abuses we'll see with cameras.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2014, 01:52:08 PM »
cool info, thanks.   there has been a media blackout on it, but word has slowly leaked.  police weren't saying anything.  Local media were climbing thru canals to get around police roadblocks.


Cop told resident everything was fine, while the kid was either under his car or launched.  I guess that's his job.  Either way, very scary.


CAPE CORAL: -
Authorities are investigating an early morning crash on Kismet Parkway in Cape Coral that involved a Lee County Sheriff's Office deputy and a bicyclist. 

A 15-year-old was transported to a Tampa hospital.

The investigation blocked traffic for hours between NW 6th Place and NW 7th Place, but all roadways have reopened.
 
When our crews arrived on scene, the BMX-style bicycle was lodged under the patrol car. A forensics team also removed a backpack from the scene.
 
Witnesses tell us an ambulance drove someone away at around 6 a.m. We learned that person suffered serious injuries during the crash.
 
"All she heard was a loud screech and bang, she ran outside to see what happened and she asked the cop if he was OK cause she thought something happened to him. He said he was fine, 10 minutes later a swarm of cops came, shut down the whole street," explained Nicholes Quinones, who rushed outside after hearing the crash.
 
The names of the people involved have not been released. The investigation is ongoing.




Appears the boy has passed away.

:(


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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2014, 01:55:10 PM »


Appears the boy has passed away.

:(



yes.  very sad.  locally, people are pissed about the cop... still on active duty, no news on investigation, his cell minutes, or dash cam, which they all have up there. 

cops speed her constantly, suburb/rural roads, they're always doing 60 in a 45.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2014, 01:55:46 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/14/nypd-body-camera_n_3756828.html

NYPD is about to start using them.  Bloomberg is pissed, said it's an invasion of privacy.  This mayor, who is okay with limiting soda size, in a town with tens of thousands of cameras everywhere, is worried about privacy?  lol

No, Bloomy knows we're gonna see a rash of abuse of civilians rights, some high profile firings, then things will be cleaned up.  He doesn't wanna be the face/mayor of the corruption and abuses we'll see with cameras.


It will be appealed and probably not go anywhere.  The police state is strong in NY.


Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 02:00:20 PM »
yes.  very sad.  locally, people are pissed about the cop... still on active duty, no news on investigation, his cell minutes, or dash cam, which they all have up there. 

cops speed her constantly, suburb/rural roads, they're always doing 60 in a 45.



Fuck yea, they are horrible in Washington/Baltimore/Northern VA.  I don't think I've ever seen them below 70 on I-495 except when it's bumper to bumper of course.  But, they don't even bother people until the speeder is well over 80.  And they constantly have people pulled over - no shortage of civilian speeders to be sure.


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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2014, 03:11:09 PM »
Fuck yea, they are horrible in Washington/Baltimore/Northern VA.  I don't think I've ever seen them below 70 on I-495 except when it's bumper to bumper of course.  But, they don't even bother people until the speeder is well over 80.  And they constantly have people pulled over - no shortage of civilian speeders to be sure.

If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.

If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.

This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".   

He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser.  He left some LONG skid marks.  He was fcking flying.  This isn't up for debate.  When you're going 44 mph, you can stop.  When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder.   This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard.  He was flying.  Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.

Skip8282

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2014, 03:57:14 PM »
If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.

If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.

This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".   

He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser.  He left some LONG skid marks.  He was fcking flying.  This isn't up for debate.  When you're going 44 mph, you can stop.  When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder.   This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard.  He was flying.  Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.



Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else.  They should not receive special treatment.

If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.


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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2014, 04:55:58 PM »
Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else.  They should not receive special treatment.
If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.

Cops are swarming that area looking for speeders.   I'm disgusted by it.  Cop still on FULL DUTY.  At the very least, he's probably a little traumatized for it.  At worst, he was goofing off and didn't see kid.  Brake skid marks are described as 30 to 40 feet long.  Not sure how one does that at 45 mph on a dry morning, if he's paying attention.   IMO, it was either speeding and/or distracted driving.  Cops are always on these dashboard mounted laptops all day.  Eyes always looking down.  I know it's part of the job, but wow... skid marks, kid flew thru a yard, and bike was entirely under the cop car afterwards.  I don't see 45 mph.  We're talking WIDE OPEN streets here.  almost rural.  Houses every third lot. 

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2014, 12:30:06 AM »
The footage would just mysteriously get 'lost' or 'damaged'


^^^^ THIS

Meet another of St. Louis Missori's finest

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24KT

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2014, 12:41:46 AM »
put something into place, so that any time a policeman "loses" camera - particularly when there is an incident - he gets 6 months of desk duty.

seriously, the solution would be to get police leadership that aren't police.  Too much of "we came up together for 20 years, I can't put these guys in the clink for something shady".

No, they take an oath.  Get a cilivian in there running the PD.  A nice heartless lawyer who will promote the shit out of the good cops, and prosecute the shit out of the bad eggs.  Nobody here can defend bad cops... but we all know they get more breaks than they should.

The problem with civilian oversight is they usually haven't got the first clue of what it is like to be a cop, and what they have to face day to day. The quickest way to mess something up is to have inexperienced layman in charge of and making policy for professionals. Oversight by cops needs to occur, but that blue wall of silence needs to be torn down... dismantled brick by brick.
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24KT

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2014, 12:51:14 AM »


Absolutely, in the other thread we've pointed out countless times that when being investigated for a crime, cops should be treated the same as everyone else.  They should not receive special treatment.

If anything, they need to be held to a higher standard.



If anything it would at least help them to understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of police investigations. They shouldn't have a problem with rude, impertinent, or invasive questions,
...not if they've got nothing to hide... right?  ;)   :P
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Agnostic007

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Re: Should police be required to have uniform cameras?
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2014, 08:22:47 AM »
If any of us were to run a kid over, they'd have our phone in 2 minutes, and in a day, the newspapers would have the story that at 6:02 AM, we were texting our mistress lol.

If any of us were to run a kid over, and there was video footage, it'd be all over the place, with them calling us horrible and careless.

This time, it's just quiet and "oh, we'll let you know".   

He was in a heavy Crown vic police cruiser.  He left some LONG skid marks.  He was fcking flying.  This isn't up for debate.  When you're going 44 mph, you can stop.  When you're going 64, it becomes a lot harder.   This cop locked up brakes and still shot the kid thru a yard.  He was flying.  Comments all over local media, people are really upset on this one.

I would figure a Crown Vic would have anti lock brakes.