Black man telling it like it is. At the same time slapping snot out of black

[tonymctones]

Of course police should be held to a higher standard. They are authority figures and representatives of the law whose job is to serve, protect and maintain the peace. Any authority figure is supposed to be held to a higher standard.

and they should be held to the letter of the law just like everybody else. It is just as unacceptable for a cop to break the law as it is for a citizen.

Its your kind of attitude that allows people to riot, loot and act an ass b/c they believe they hold that trump card. Its like a women who feels its ok to act out and get physical with a guy b/c they know that its not exceptable for a guy to get physical back. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong

[Al Doggity]

and they should be held to the letter of the law just like everybody else. It is just as unacceptable for a cop to break the law as it is for a citizen.

Its your kind of attitude that allows people to riot, loot and act an ass b/c they believe they hold that trump card. Its like a women who feels its ok to act out and get physical with a guy b/c they know that its not exceptable for a guy to get physical back. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong

No, because those things are still illegal. My "attitude" doesn't "allow" illegal behavior. The fact of the matter is that the letter of the law is more stringent for police officers and that's as it should be. Authority figures should be expected and required to act reasonably even if they are dealing with people who aren't doing the same. That doesn't prevent them from doing their job and it's not a trump card. The trump card is that leo are more legally protected when using physical force that can result in death.

[Skip8282]

There must be trust built but the responsibility for building that trust isn't the sole responsible of the police.  You're  dismissing the position of law enforcement to quickly.   One solution is to only have black police officers serve black communities and white officers serve white communities but I honestly don't think that would improve condition very much.

I would argue that the trust issue is the sole responsibility of the police.

The community has already entrusted them with a level of power and now they need to prove their worthiness.

Distrust of gov't power is what this nation was founded on.

The community should always be wary of the power they give to cops.  The cops should always be proving they're responsible enough to handle the power.

[tonymctones]

No, because those things are still illegal. My "attitude" doesn't "allow" illegal behavior. The fact of the matter is that the letter of the law is more stringent for police officers and that's as it should be. Authority figures should be expected and required to act reasonably even if they are dealing with people who aren't doing the same. That doesn't prevent them from doing their job and it's not a trump card. The trump card is that leo are more legally protected when using physical force that can result in death.

maybe you misunderstood, I believe the police have a duty to follow the law just like citizens do. I agree cops have more stringent laws that doesnt mean that they are any more obligated to follow those laws than a citizen is to follow the laws that apply to them.

Each are held to different standards but they should be held to each respective standard equally.

Authority figures should be expected and required to act reasonably even if they are dealing with people who aren't doing the same.

LMFAO spoken like a women who likes to hit guys b/c she knows they wont hit back...

A cop is expected by law to act reasonably even if someone they are dealing with isnt, a person is also expected to act reasonably when interacting with a cop by law.

[tonymctones]

I would argue that the trust issue is the sole responsibility of the police.

The community has already entrusted them with a level of power and now they need to prove their worthiness.

Distrust of gov't power is what this nation was founded on.

The community should always be wary of the power they give to cops.  The cops should always be proving they're responsible enough to handle the power.

Its both their responsibilities. The community itself needs to self police their members to help eliminate unwanted behaviors. They need to cooperate with the police and obey the law. The police need to be integrated with the community so they are trusted and seen as a member and not an occupying force. They need to abide by the law and self police their members as well.

[Al Doggity]

maybe you misunderstood, I believe the police have a duty to follow the law just like citizens do. I agree cops have more stringent laws that doesnt mean that they are any more obligated to follow those laws than a citizen is to follow the laws that apply to them.

Each are held to different standards but they should be held to each respective standard equally.

  Just a few posts ago, you wrote this:

The cops should not be held any any higher standard than citizens in the way they interact with one another. One persons bad actions doesnt justify your bad actions. This should go both ways and the cops need to abide by it as well.

And the simple fact of the matter is that they should be. It's not a two-way street. An officer's job is to enforce the law when it is being broken and to follow those higher standards while doing so. It's just retarded to say "The nature of the job is to deal with lawbreakers and they must follow the law while doing that, but if they come into contact with someone who is breaking the law, then they can break the law to enforce the law."

LMFAO spoken like a women who likes to hit guys b/c she knows they wont hit back...

...which is a stupid comparison because it is actually a job requirement for cops to use force and arrest people.

[tonymctones]

Just a few posts ago, you wrote this:

The cops should not be held any any higher standard than citizens in the way they interact with one another. One persons bad actions doesnt justify your bad actions. This should go both ways and the cops need to abide by it as well.

Jesus FACEPALM.....They shouldnt be held to a higher standard they should both be held to the standard of the law...thats why I said maybe you misunderstood but you obviously did.

And the simple fact of the matter is that they should be. It's not a two-way street. An officer's job is to enforce the law when it is being broken and to follow those higher standards while doing so. It's just retarded to say "The nature of the job is to deal with lawbreakers and they must follow the law while doing that, but if they come into contact with someone who is breaking the law, then they can break the law to enforce the law."

I agree its an officers job to enforce the law just like its a citizens job to not break the law!!!

It's just retarded to say "The nature of the job is to deal with lawbreakers and they must follow the law while doing that, but if they come into contact with someone who is breaking the law, then they can break the law to enforce the law."

I agree with you albert, and its equally retarded to say that if a citizen encounters a cop breaking the law then they to can break the law.

even if mike brown was shot illegally, IT STILL DOESNT JUSTIFY RIOTING AND LOOTING......

[tonymctones]

it is a 2 way street albert both sets citizens and cops have a duty to act right.

[Al Doggity]

Jesus FACEPALM.....They shouldnt be held to a higher standard they should both be held to the standard of the law...thats why I said maybe you misunderstood but you obviously did.


I agree its an officers job to enforce the law just like its a citizens job to not break the law!!!
I agree with you albert, and its equally retarded to say that if a citizen encounters a cop breaking the law then they to can break the law.

even if mike brown was shot illegally, IT STILL DOESNT JUSTIFY RIOTING AND LOOTING......

Who is making the argument that citizens should be able to break the law without repercussions? Option D said that officers should be held to a higher
standard- in relation to having "justified" fear and poor treatment of the people they are supposed to serve and protect. You said
that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard. No one said anything about looting being justified and I don't see where it was
implied. It was a discussion about everyday policing.


Yes, they should be held to a higher standard. The nature of the job is that they often won't be dealing with people
who are following the law. It is LITERALLY the main purpose of the job.

[Al Doggity]

it is a 2 way street albert both sets citizens and cops have a duty to act right.

No, it's not a two way street. The duty of the police to follow the law is not contingent on whether or not the
citizens they are dealing with are doing the same. It's a one way street.

[tonymctones]

Who is making the argument that citizens should be able to break the law without repercussions? Option D said that officers should be held to a higher
standard- in relation to having "justified" fear and poor treatment of the people they are supposed to serve and protect. You said
that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard. No one said anything about looting being justified and I don't see where it was
implied. It was a discussion about everyday policing.


Yes, they should be held to a higher standard. The nature of the job is that they often won't be dealing with people
who are following the law. It is LITERALLY the main purpose of the job.

who said cops should be able to break the law?

Good Lord youre fucking dense, Yes the standard of law varies for cops and citizens. Both sets should be held to the letter of the law as it relates to them. Nobody should be held to standards outside of the standard of law.

My original comment to Mal was in response to his views on whos responsibility it was to establish trust!!!!

Both groups should be expected to help establish trust.

[tonymctones]

No, it's not a two way street. The duty of the police to follow the law is not contingent on whether or not the
citizens they are dealing with are doing the same. It's a one way street.

agreed and the duty of citizens is not contingent on whether or not the cops are doing the same....

HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THAT?

if you disagree then you are saying that if the cops break the law then the citizens are no longer bound by law.

[George Whorewell]

No, it's not a two way street. The duty of the police to follow the law is not contingent on whether or not the
citizens they are dealing with are doing the same. It's a one way street.

If a "citizen" attacks a cop, should the cop cower on the floor and call for back up, try to best said citizen in fista cuffs, or pull out his gun?

I think the best solution is to withdraw the police from these hellholes completely. Let things descend into chaos. No police at all. Its not like there's any tax revenue being created in those areas to pay the police anyway.  You guys can have a nice, non judgmental, non racist self-policing force. Take care of yourselves and there should be no problem..... I mean, most of the shootings in the hood occur when racist white cops shoot black fellas just minding their own business right?  I would think that removing police officers from the equation would whittle the crime rate down to zero in no time flat.

All the big, bad racist white cops can patrol the rest of the neighborhoods in the Country.

[Al Doggity]

who said cops should be able to break the law?

Good Lord youre fucking dense, Yes the standard of law varies for cops and citizens. Both sets should be held to the letter of the law as it relates to them. Nobody should be held to standards outside of the standard of law.

My original comment to Mal was in response to his views on whos responsibility it was to establish trust!!!!

Both groups should be expected to help establish trust.

This was not only in reference to this thread, but to a previous thread in which you made the same claims. You tried to claim that an officer using an illegal chokehold is a rational and foreseeable outcome when a citizen is unruly. It's not. Police are held to a higher standard.

Why would both groups be expected to help establish trust? One side is a group only in the sense that they belong to a "minority demographic",  not sharing ideals or common goals, while the other is a government entity whose members seek out membership and adhere to set policies, which are often antagonistic towards the people they are allegedly sworn to serve. The onus is clearly on one side to create a relationship of trust.

[Al Doggity]

agreed and the duty of citizens is not contingent on whether or not the cops are doing the same....

HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THAT?

if you disagree then you are saying that if the cops break the law then the citizens are no longer bound by law.

Just as your previous statement wasn't a two way street, neither is this one.

[Al Doggity]

If a "citizen" attacks a cop, should the cop cower on the floor and call for back up, try to best said citizen in fista cuffs, or pull out his gun?

I think the best solution is to withdraw the police from these hellholes completely. Let things descend into chaos. No police at all. Its not like there's any tax revenue being created in those areas to pay the police anyway.  You guys can have a nice, non judgmental, non racist self-policing force. Take care of yourselves and there should be no problem..... I mean, most of the shootings in the hood occur when racist white cops shoot black fellas just minding their own business right?  I would think that removing police officers from the equation would whittle the crime rate down to zero in no time flat.

All the big, bad racist white cops can patrol the rest of the neighborhoods in the Country.

Do you believe police abusing their authority is an imaginary problem? Or that it is so small that it is almost non-existent?

[24KT]

It's cringe inducing when Canadians try to show their out moral superiority over the US and get it all wrong. I wonder if any if those white folks protesting we're carrying impeach bush signs?

How about some protests for the natives who's land you stole instead of a thug who attacked a far smaller cop?

Oh we have those too. Canadians have many protests, and demand much accountability from our Gov'ts.
You might not hear of them south of our mutual border, which is entirely understandable...
given how full your hands have been lately... coupled with the fact that we don't have storm troopers busting in to bust heads. When Canadians protest it's quite peaceful, solemn, and in many cases healing.

The odd times when it has gone bad, was when the cause of native protestors started gaining traction with the rest of Canadians, and the Ontario Conservative Premiere at the time ordered the OPP to end the protest. It went south real fast, lots of violence, lots of bloodshed, and the Conservatives with an even worse PR nightmare on their hands. It always ends badly when the police show up as provocateurs.

Our latest protests are for inquiries into the high rates of dead & missing native aboriginal females.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/inquiry-fate-aboriginal-women-isn-t-justified-death-212350617.html

[24KT]

Another racist libtard. So a black conservative can never exist?

A liberal white man making statements about how a black man should think, what the black man's values should be and even how the black man's voice should sound:

I didn't see a White man stating how a Black man should think, what his values should be or how he should sound.
I saw a man stating his opinion of the situation, and parodying another man who he believes to be disingenuous.

[24KT]

To address the vid. I totally understand what he is trying to get across, but its not my experience.

I grew up on 78th and Normandie. 2 Blocks from ground zero of the 1992 LA riots. I grew up in the heart of it. Went to Washington High, which is one of the toughest schools in the city. And yeah i had my fears of being approached by the street element. But to be totally honest, i was equally afraid of the police and its because of what i saw happening. It was common knowledge that LA Co. Sherriffs would beat the living shit out of you (and not get caught) if you "back talked" them. It was a running joke in LA on how you would get picked up in one neighborhood and get dropped off in another one. In torrance where my office is located, they had a police code when they would see a black driving through their fair city, NIT...Ni66er in Torrance. I know that its sometimes hard for you guys to grasp because you havent experienced it and foreign to you. But there is a real fear of police. Shit, 333386, you didnt even know of the Iran Contra drugs shit that happened to south central LA. Just as i dont know the commings and goings on Bronx from your POV, son you dont know innercity living as a black/latino.

Option D, this is so far from their reality, many will never get it until it smacks them in the face.

I know what you're talking about. I've seen it first hand.

I grew up a kid in the suburbs of Canada where the cops could be respected, and relied upon to protect & serve their communities. As a kid, it wasn't unheard of, if you happened to be out late, and miss the last bus to flag down a patrol car and ask for a ride home. Sometimes, they'd even let you play with the lights (but no sirens). I went from that to living in Southern Cali. The city I lived in, I was always treated with the utmost respect by Police officers. Being from the Canadian suburbs, I didn't think it unusual. I later realized it was. Because the mayor of that city was Black, and there were so few Blacks living in the city, every where I went, people mistook me for the mayor's daughter... including the cops. After moving from that city, I moved to the Valley. The cops there were quite different. I found myself getting repeatedly hassled while walking home from the 7/11. Not unbearably so, but about 5 or so times within a two week period to feel a little stand-offish about it. VanNuys sucked, so after two weeks I moved. The worst part was witnessing the treatment of young Black males.

[24KT]

Not a bad point. But between the two, the  responsibility to treat the other in a professional manner falls on the police. A citizen can run their mouth  off all day long at an officer, doesn't mean it's right, but the officer should never return the favor. Having said that, until the community addresses their issues while asking the police to address theirs, the us against them mentality of both sides will likely not go away anytime soon, which is sad. the majority of both sides want the same thing. 

Agreed. And above all... Common sense must prevail. A friend of mine was required to defend a police office in one of the stupidest cases I've ever heard brought forth against an officer. Seems the police were called to break up one of those notorious Canadian bush parties. One of the officers who happened to be Black, was greeted with racist epithets from one of the drunken revelers which he chose to ignore while writing out his citations. He figured it would only escalate the situation.

He was later put up on police internal charges for failing to properly investigate a racist assault; his own. How is that for a kick in the pants? This guy used common sense, and decided to forego the unnecessary escalation of a situation, and ignore the fact that a drunken slob called him the N-word, and he gets charged? Go figure.

[24KT]

and they should be held to the letter of the law just like everybody else. It is just as unacceptable for a cop to break the law as it is for a citizen.

Its your kind of attitude that allows people to riot, loot and act an ass b/c they believe they hold that trump card. Its like a women who feels its ok to act out and get physical with a guy b/c they know that its not exceptable for a guy to get physical back. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong

Who says it's not acceptable for a guy to get physical back? It ABSOLUTELY is acceptable!
If ANYBODY, and I don't care who they are, if anybody violates or abuses you physically, it is ALWAYS acceptable to defend yourself. I've only ever met one person in my life who held the conviction it wasn't ever acceptable for a male to physically defend himself from a female, and that was a kid I knew when we were 10 years old. I hope he's since changed him mind. If I have a son, I'm raising him to defend himself, ...even if his assailant is a woman.

[24KT]

Until da community honestly deals w its dysfunctions and bullshit - nothing will improve.   Same bs for generations

How right you are... ya little troll.
Until the law enforcement community deals with it's dysfunction and bullshit, nothing will improve.

[24KT]

LMFAO spoken like a women who likes to hit guys b/c she knows they wont hit back...

What is this? ...is this the groundwork for laying the argument for what he got his clock cleaned in Macy's.
I didn't fight back because I thought it was a woman? ...when it was really a man dressed up as a woman?
OK, I see where he's going with this... 

[tonymctones]

This was not only in reference to this thread, but to a previous thread in which you made the same claims. You tried to claim that an officer using an illegal chokehold is a rational and foreseeable outcome when a citizen is unruly. It's not. Police are held to a higher standard.

Why would both groups be expected to help establish trust? One side is a group only in the sense that they belong to a "minority demographic",  not sharing ideals or common goals, while the other is a government entity whose members seek out membership and adhere to set policies, which are often antagonistic towards the people they are allegedly sworn to serve. The onus is clearly on one side to create a relationship of trust.

I never said it was rational only a possible outcome.

So you dont think citizens and cops have common goals? who said anything about the community being mainly minorities?

It doesnt matter what demographic the community is they still have a responsibility to help foster a trusting relationship with cops

[tonymctones]

Do you believe police abusing their authority is an imaginary problem? Or that it is so small that it is almost non-existent?

Do you believe that police being assaulted/abused is an imaginary problem? or that it is so small that it is almost non-existent?