drugs aren't everything

[falco]

Saying it's all drugs is an excuse to admit that we are not blessed genetically and we are not tuff enough to endure the brutal workouts and we are not capable of eating pounds and pounds of food every few hours of every day of every week of every month for years.
Everybody uses drugs, only a few shine because of that.

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

Saying it's all drugs is an excuse to admit that we are not blessed genetically and we are not tuff enough to endure the brutal workouts and we are not capable of eating pounds and pounds of food every few hours of every day of every week of every month for years.
Everybody uses drugs, only a few shine because of that.

Exactly. ....

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

Disco stu, Nash , forillagorilla, and falco are dead on. They're also voices of experience. . People posting pics of dillet, have you ever competed.  It's not just that he stopped using drugs. He also stopped training, was sick, and stopped eating insane food intakes. ..  drugs just finish, not build....
This isn't to offend those that think different.  Yet just to be a voice of experience.  You build by hard work. Drugs are the top off.
Don't believe the all drugs comment. You can build a great physique without... drugs are the add on after you peak. Thousands of kids start juicing right away... and how do they look???
This is a marathon, not a sprint

[XFACTOR]

Modern bbing is ALL drugs! Grams upon grams!

No bber is wasting their time training 5 to 10 yrs natural , all pros and amateurs jump on drugs as soon as they start lifting

Drug timing and food intake are the most important

You want the truth?  This is it! You're lying to yourself thinking otherwise. It takes a person who's trained naturally for many years then has done hormones to truly understand this.

[Man of Steel]

Disco stu, Nash , forillagorilla, and falco are dead on. They're also voices of experience. . People posting pics of dillet, have you ever competed.  It's not just that he stopped using drugs. He also stopped training, was sick, and stopped eating insane food intakes. ..  drugs just finish, not build....
This isn't to offend those that think different.  Yet just to be a voice of experience.  You build by hard work. Drugs are the top off.
Don't believe the all drugs comment. You can build a great physique without... drugs are the add on after you peak. Thousands of kids start juicing right away... and how do they look???
This is a marathon, not a sprint

Yes you build with hard work, but those using often continue to work harder and harder because of the results of drugs.  

Without the drugs the consistency in training and the level of over all effort decreases because the much faster gains aren't there.  I love the weights, but my passion isn't quit there like it was in my obsession years in my 20s.

Try training consistently for decades with no "boost" and see if the hard work ethic persists.  Most quit when the juice is gone.

You can look at examples of members on this board that always trained naturally or used a little years and years ago.  Then they came into money, received some drug guidance, tried a new stack of something and suddenly they're responding to the weights like never before, training 7 days a week, training as hard as they can, posting pics every 6-8 hours, they're bold and cocky like never before and they preach against virtually everything non-bodybuilding.

I'm sorry, but PEDs are WAAAAAY more than the finishing touch.

[MAXX]

lots of naturals bench 315+. not hard with some consistency and dedication

Norwegian javelin thrower 405 sure some bounce but what ever

[SuperTed]

I'm sorry, but PEDs are WAAAAAY more than the finishing touch.

Exactly. It's pure delusion to think otherwise. You just have to look at the freak show that is female BB to see how important the drugs are. Women with full on masculine features and bodies that put the best natural males to shame.
And besides, like I said previously, why the fuck would anyone even bother taking potentially dangerous drugs if it were merely the "icing on the cake"?!

Obviously, anyone who thinks a 315lb bench can only be achieved through drugs is a dumbass. But likewise, someone who thinks that drugs are only the "finishing touch" for even the biggest and densest pro's is equally fucking dumb.

[XFACTOR]

Exactly. It's pure delusion to think otherwise. You just have to look at the freak show that is female BB to see how important the drugs are. Women with full on masculine features and bodies that put the best natural males to shame.
And besides, like I said previously, why the fuck would anyone even bother taking potentially dangerous drugs if it were merely the "icing on the cake"?!

Obviously, anyone who thinks a 315lb bench can only be achieved through drugs is a dumbass. But likewise, someone who thinks that drugs are only the "finishing touch" for even the biggest and densest pro's is equally fucking dumb.

Like I said, you only know the real truth if you have trained hard naturally for many years, then experimented with hormones.  You would never ever say they are the finishing touch. 

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

Trained naturally for 10 years. Took drugs. Stopped 7 years ago. Still competed in untested feds, and held my own. 25 years training now. The most common reason naturals stagnate is the lack of proper training.  Someone pointed out examples using people on this board. The problem with that is you're referencing inexperienced trainees. How many here who actually compete would say all drugs? Only novice level.  If all you do is 3 to 5 sets of 8. Of course you won't grow. The people here who compete aren't saying all drugs. If a natural doesn't respond the first years it's the training. Drugs are for when you peak. The few that start with drugs burn out. To have never compete, and talk about what you've heard is erroneous. If a natural doesn't respond switch the training up. And for those that never competed before stop letting forum hear say lead you

[pellius]

Trained naturally for 10 years. Took drugs. Stopped 7 years ago. Still competed in untested feds, and held my own. 25 years training now. The most common reason naturals stagnate is the lack of proper training.  Someone pointed out examples using people on this board. The problem with that is you're referencing inexperienced trainees. How many here who actually compete would say all drugs? Only novice level.  If all you do is 3 to 5 sets of 8. Of course you won't grow. The people here who compete aren't saying all drugs. If a natural doesn't respond the first years it's the training. Drugs are for when you peak. The few that start with drugs burn out. To have never compete, and talk about what you've heard is erroneous. If a natural doesn't respond switch the training up. And for those that never competed before stop letting forum hear say lead you

When the term "all drugs" is used, I take it to mean for those in the pro ranks. At some point all progress (increasing lean muscle) stops when unenhanced. There is a natural limit for everyone. You can play with conditioning but as far as increasing lean muscle mass to any noticeable degree it's not going to happen no matter what your training or diet. If you want to compete successfully as a pro and continue to advance you will have to use anabolics and peptides. So in a very real sense it does become a matter of "all drugs" at a pro level. You are simply not going to advance without them. That's why some don't even bother to train when, or if, they go off hormones/peptides. What's the point? No matter what they do in that workout they will not improve. They will slow down the atrophy by some extenet but by then they plan to be gassed full bore and at it gain.

[pellius]

As an aside, if your concern is health and you just want to "hold your own" in competition and earn the bragging
rights for being clean then by all means. But if your goal is to win the you have to do whatever it takes.

[The Scott]

If drugs really were just the "icing on the cake", I would still rather have my cake plain thank you. 

Physical culturist for life.

[Royalty]

Mustafa

[The Scott]

Mustafa

That there is a lot of icing. 

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

When the term "all drugs" is used, I take it to mean for those in the pro ranks. At some point all progress (increasing lean muscle) stops when unenhanced. There is a natural limit for everyone. You can play with conditioning but as far as increasing lean muscle mass to any noticeable degree it's not going to happen no matter what your training or diet. If you want to compete successfully as a pro and continue to advance you will have to use anabolics and peptides. So in a very real sense it does become a matter of "all drugs" at a pro level. You are simply not going to advance without them. That's why some don't even bother to train when, or if, they go off hormones/peptides. What's the point? No matter what they do in that workout they will not improve. They will slow down the atrophy by some extenet but by then they plan to be gassed full bore and at it gain.

That is correct. As someone that qualified as an elite lifter in the past, and now trying to find a meet to qualify pro I understand that. The point of my original post is that you don't need drugs to get to a advanced level. To win at that level yes. But to make it there no. My post was to the inexperienced that get discouraged by the posts thinking they need drugs to look good. I see so many kids at meets that think they can't do anything without it. Also clients I've trained. I hate to see people get discouraged. That's my point. Merely to motivate those that get discouraged. And as someone that used to take 50iu plus of insulin a day, I'm far from a natural activist lol. Just letting people know you can get and maintain more than what you think without it. I talk from experience.  At 165lbs still touch and go 400+bp, still pull 6+ and im 35yrs. Just saying that you can get far or maintain without drugs. So kids shouldn't get discouraged. There are kids that juice their first year. That's wrong no matter how you slice it. Not going to drag this out anymore. Just want beginners to know don't give up hope, or think you need drugs out the gate. The only people who think that are those who don't speak from experience.

[THE ARS]

That is correct. As someone that qualified as an elite lifter in the past, and now trying to find a meet to qualify pro I understand that. The point of my original post is that you don't need drugs to get to a advanced level. To win at that level yes. But to make it there no. My post was to the inexperienced that get discouraged by the posts thinking they need drugs to look good. I see so many kids at meets that think they can't do anything without it. Also clients I've trained. I hate to see people get discouraged. That's my point. Merely to motivate those that get discouraged. And as someone that used to take 50iu plus of insulin a day, I'm far from a natural activist lol. Just letting people know you can get and maintain more than what you think without it. I talk from experience.  At 165lbs still touch and go 400+bp, still pull 6+ and im 35yrs. Just saying that you can get far or maintain without drugs. So kids shouldn't get discouraged. There are kids that juice their first year. That's wrong no matter how you slice it. Not going to drag this out anymore. Just want beginners to know don't give up hope, or think you need drugs out the gate. The only people who think that are those who don't speak from experience.

Hit that enter bar once in a while muscleman.

That block of nonsense makes you look like a manic retard.

When people say "It's all drugs" they mean you cannot win without them.

And they are right.

Right?

[pellius]

That is correct. As someone that qualified as an elite lifter in the past, and now trying to find a meet to qualify pro I understand that. The point of my original post is that you don't need drugs to get to a advanced level. To win at that level yes. But to make it there no. My post was to the inexperienced that get discouraged by the posts thinking they need drugs to look good. I see so many kids at meets that think they can't do anything without it. Also clients I've trained. I hate to see people get discouraged. That's my point. Merely to motivate those that get discouraged. And as someone that used to take 50iu plus of insulin a day, I'm far from a natural activist lol. Just letting people know you can get and maintain more than what you think without it. I talk from experience.  At 165lbs still touch and go 400+bp, still pull 6+ and im 35yrs. Just saying that you can get far or maintain without drugs. So kids shouldn't get discouraged. There are kids that juice their first year. That's wrong no matter how you slice it. Not going to drag this out anymore. Just want beginners to know don't give up hope, or think you need drugs out the gate. The only people who think that are those who don't speak from experience.

Fair point. Everyone can improve with proper training and nutrition. It all depends on how much "improvement" you want. But as far as "anyone can look good" with just proper training and diet... hmm, I'm not sure. Depends what your definition of looking good is. Everyone can look better than in their untrained state but if you're striving for that six pack and some nicely defined lean muscle it's a very individual thing. Some people, a lot of people, just got handed the short end of the gene pool. Every locker room of every gym that I've trained at are full of pretty damn dedicated individuals. Right now I'm training at midnight to avoid the crowds and this attracts a more dedicated group. I watch them and they train hard and consistently and all say that they
come at this hour so that they can focus and not be distracted or slowed down by the normal gym crowd that infect all gyms. These are serious guys and gals. But if you were to see them at the mall or on the beach there is nothing about them that would lead you to believe they have ever stepped into a gym ever.

But I'm sure they are very, very healthy and in good physical shape and can run rings around 90% of the population.

[epic_alien]

Fair point. Everyone can improve with proper training and nutrition. It all depends on how much "improvement" you want. But as far as "anyone can look good" with just proper training and diet... hmm, I'm not sure. Depends what your definition of looking good is. Everyone can look better than in their untrained state but if you're striving for that six pack and some nicely defined lean muscle it's a very individual thing. Some people, a lot of people, just got handed the short end of the gene pool. Every locker room of every gym that I've trained at are full of pretty damn dedicated individuals. Right now I'm training at midnight to avoid the crowds and this attracts a more dedicated group. I watch them and they train hard and consistently and all say that they
come at this hour so that they can focus and not be distracted or slowed down by the normal gym crowd that infect all gyms. These are serious guys and gals. But if you were to see them at the mall or on the beach there is nothing about them that would lead you to believe they have ever stepped into a gym ever.

But I'm sure they are very, very healthy and in good physical shape and can run rings around 90% of the population.

aren't you about 155lbs?

[Big Chiro Flex]

aren't you about 155lbs?

Lower your tone when addressing Pallius.

[Bevo]

Disco stu, Nash , forillagorilla, and falco are dead on. They're also voices of experience. . People posting pics of dillet, have you ever competed.  It's not just that he stopped using drugs. He also stopped training, was sick, and stopped eating insane food intakes. ..  drugs just finish, not build....
This isn't to offend those that think different.  Yet just to be a voice of experience.  You build by hard work. Drugs are the top off.
Don't believe the all drugs comment. You can build a great physique without... drugs are the add on after you peak. Thousands of kids start juicing right away... and how do they look???
This is a marathon, not a sprint

Drugs are NOT the finish , they BUILD what do u think steroids do??

First genetics matter no one is denying that but more important it's genetic response and durability with the least side effects that makes one have "genetics" not talking structure, shape, here

Drugs are VERY important that's a FACT!

Funny thing is in competitive bbing no drugs = no winning bber

All things considered it's:

Genetics + drugs + food + training = top competitors

Let's not fool ourselves to say drugs are the finishing touch cause it is NOT

[Bevo]

Saying it's all drugs is an excuse to admit that we are not blessed genetically and we are not tuff enough to endure the brutal workouts and we are not capable of eating pounds and pounds of food every few hours of every day of every week of every month for years.
Everybody uses drugs, only a few shine because of that.

 

Yeah u got branch warren winning shows

Dan hill, Peter Putnam turning pro.... Yeah top genetics haha

Like I said top genetics can be defined in today's bbing as being able to tolerate grams of drugs and still have a kidney and liver...

[Bevo]

Yes you build with hard work, but those using often continue to work harder and harder because of the results of drugs.  

Without the drugs the consistency in training and the level of over all effort decreases because the much faster gains aren't there.  I love the weights, but my passion isn't quit there like it was in my obsession years in my 20s.

Try training consistently for decades with no "boost" and see if the hard work ethic persists.  Most quit when the juice is gone.

You can look at examples of members on this board that always trained naturally or used a little years and years ago.  Then they came into money, received some drug guidance, tried a new stack of something and suddenly they're responding to the weights like never before, training 7 days a week, training as hard as they can, posting pics every 6-8 hours, they're bold and cocky like never before and they preach against virtually everything non-bodybuilding.

I'm sorry, but PEDs are WAAAAAY more than the finishing touch.

Someone with some sense 

[D.O.U.P]

Yes you build with hard work, but those using often continue to work harder and harder because of the results of drugs.  

Without the drugs the consistency in training and the level of over all effort decreases because the much faster gains aren't there.  I love the weights, but my passion isn't quit there like it was in my obsession years in my 20s.

Try training consistently for decades with no "boost" and see if the hard work ethic persists.  Most quit when the juice is gone.

You can look at examples of members on this board that always trained naturally or used a little years and years ago.  Then they came into money, received some drug guidance, tried a new stack of something and suddenly they're responding to the weights like never before, training 7 days a week, training as hard as they can, posting pics every 6-8 hours, they're bold and cocky like never before and they preach against virtually everything non-bodybuilding.

I'm sorry, but PEDs are WAAAAAY more than the finishing touch.

The truth.

Are drugs EVERYTHING? No. You have to train intensely (somewhat) eat decent meals, and do cardio.

If someone is over 35,can we all agree that anabolics/hgh are at least 30% to 50% of a good build?

[pellius]

aren't you about 155lbs?

Aren't you the guy who stuffs his bodybuild thong to make his cock appear bigger?

Still butt hurt that I didn't hook you up, a complete stranger, to an HGH source?

epic alien? More like epic insecurity.

Fake Cock!

i saw your post in the gh15 thread regaurding nordic. can i ask how i go about finding how to order from nordic? i live in the usa and have not ordered online before. i live close to mexico and usually go there, but im moving to idaho next week and wont have a source anymore!!

if you can help id appreciate

thanks

[pellius]

The truth.

Are drugs EVERYTHING? No. You have to train intensely (somewhat) eat decent meals, and do cardio.

If someone is over 35,can we all agree that anabolics/hgh are at least 30% to 50% of a good build?

Of course you need adequate nutrition, rest and proper training. But you soon reach your natural limit doing that. Things slow
down considerably after the first year of training. Dr. Walczak claimed that you max out after about 3 years if you know
what you are doing. Then it becomes all hormones. When gh15 use to say that pro bodybuilding is all hormones he was very specific
when he said "pro" bodybuilding.

Obviously, you need rest, proper nutrition and training. At the advance levels it's a given. It's like saying bodybuilding is all oxygen. Without it
you  can't bodybuild (or live). But pro bodybuilding is all hormones. You cannot win as a pro without it.