Author Topic: In the light of Ronnie's hip replacements, let's revisit smart leg training  (Read 19921 times)

anabolichalo

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How should we go about training the legs for optimal development without destroying our hips, knees, and spines?


I really find myself fighting with myself over the issue...

I quit heavy squats for 1-2 years and while my overall leg size has still grown I am convinced my legs have regressed in vastus medialis particularly and overall shape, and separation

So I have been squatting heavier again but I am a bit conflicted on the entire matter of a thing because of the Ronnie Coleman double hip fiasco, the tripple spine surgeries, and God knows what else


So... getbig, let's discuss these matters open and fairly

Mr.Mojo

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You’ll Never Squat Again: Why Physical Therapists and Doctors Should Learn Some Biomechanics

Gene Lawrence is a badass. He’s a 74 year old powerlifter who has set tons of records in his sport. He didn’t start training for powerlifting until he was 69. Last year, he squatted 225, benched 260, and deadlifted 365, all raw. Last year he also tore his left rectus femoris falling down in his driveway.

The doctor who performed his surgery told him he’d never squat again. His physical therapist told him the same. I knew better. I told Gene that within a year he’d probably be squatting his all-time best.

As a lifter, I’ve heard many stories of doctors (and sometimes physical therapists) informing lifters that their careers were finished or that they’d never be able to perform a certain lift ever again. Rarely is this advice appropriate.

Doctors and physical therapists are overly cautious due to liability issues. Their primary concern isn’t about how passionate you are for powerlifting or any other sport, it’s about keeping you injury-free so that they don’t get sued. And the best advice to keep somebody injury-free is to tell them not to lift heavy anymore.

Nevertheless, numerous powerlifters over the years have come back following “career-ending injuries” to set all-time PR’s. Donnie Thompson is the only man to total 3,000 lbs (1,265 lb squat, 950 lb bench, 785 lb deadlift). Many people don’t know this, but several years back Donnie suffered a horrendous back injury and herniated three discs. He could barely walk, but he got out of bed and rehabbed himself every day. Within three months he was back to heavy squatting and setting PR’s. Got that? Setting personal records three months following an injury that herniated 3 discs!

Following his rectus femoris repair surgery, Gene spent approximately 4 months with his physical therapist, strengthening his quads and hips and regaining flexibility. After that, he returned to training with Charles Staley and me. Immediately, Charles and I had him performing tons of bodyweight hip thrusts and back extensions to strengthen his posterior chain. We also started him off on deadlifts. For two weeks it was rack pulls with light weight, and from then on it’s been from the floor. After a month, we implemented bodyweight box squats. Two weeks later we had him performing goblet squats. Two weeks later came the barbell for squats.

In just 4 months of training with us (and 4 months with the physical therapist before that), Gene has recently squatted 215 lbs (20 lbs off of his all-time best), benched 258 lbs (3 lbs off of his all-time best), and deadlifted 330 lbs (35 lbs off of his all-time best at this weight). He’ll soon beat his squat record, just as I predicted. It’s not easy returning from a surgery when you’re 74 years old, but Gene may soon start setting PR’s due to the hard work and consistency he’s put forth (Charles and I put him on a very regimented schedule).

Here’s what Gene’s doctor and physical therapist failed to understand. Powerlifting is what makes Gene tick. It gives him strength, courage, and zeal in life. Gene’s home gym is his pride and joy – it houses his hundreds of powerlifting trophies and plaques. Setting PR’s gives him a reason to get up and train. It’s in his blood. If you’re a fellow lifter, you get it.

What if Gene had listened to his surgeon and PT? He’d probably have quit lifting, which would have negatively impacted his physical health and devastated his psychological well-being.

If you suffer a serious musculoskeletal or soft-tissue injury, here’s what you should do: Never rush the healing of an injury, embark on a gradual, progressive rehabilitation program, and find a doctor and physical therapist who understand strength & conditioning (there are indeed plenty of great doctors and PT’s out there who also understand S&C – these are the types I gravitate toward). Here’s what you should not do: Solely listen to the advice of one doctor or one physical therapist, and give up on a sport or activity before the rehab process has terminated. Nobody can know for certain how an individual will bounce back following an injury.

Ninety percent of doctors are estrogen-soaked weaklings who couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The majority don’t understand strength training, the mental attitude required to be consistent in the gym, and the pride that accompanies weight room strength. Due to their ignorance and fear of heavy strength training, they often utter ridiculous advice.

For example, doctors will usually tell you to stop lifting weights at the slightest sign of danger. Elbow hurts? Don’t lift. Knee hurts? Don’t lift. Back hurts? Don’t lift. Why can’t you just work around the problem? If your knee hurts you can still likely perform weighted back extensions and keep your posterior chain strong. If your elbow hurts you can still train legs, core, and some upper body muscles. If your back hurts you can still perform single leg exercises and certain upper body exercises. There may be times where it’s wise to completely avoid strength training, but this is far more rare than what the doctors tell you, and a savvy lifter can always work around an injury.

Moreover, the vast majority of doctors and PT’s don’t adequately comprehend biomechanics. In our Hip Extension Torque product, Chris and I teach readers how to calculate estimations of torque loading during squats, deadlifts, and other hip extension exercises. I believe that this is a skill that many physical therapists and orthopedic doctors would benefit from – it’s definitely improved my skills as a personal trainer.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve trained a client whose doctor or PT informed them that they weren’t allowed to perform an exercise such as a squat or a deadlift, only to find out that they were prescribing an exercise that put just as much torque loading (or more) on the joint in question as the exercise they condemned. Upon inquiry, I discover that the doctor or PT did not examine the client’s form in order to reach his conclusion; he just offered a blanket statement to cover his ass.

Another common fallacy I see with doctors – they’ll often tell certain clients (let’s say a pregnant lady a back surgery recipient) that they’re never to lift anything greater than a certain weight, for example 30 pounds. However, biomechanics determines the loading on different parts of the body; the interplay between the body position, posture, load, gravity, and inertia need to be considered. A 30-lb kettlebell deadlift positioned directly underneath the center of mass and lifted with proper form with neutral spinal alignment will create far less spinal loading than lifting a 30-lb oddly shaped object positioned out in front of the lifter with a twisted set-up. Contorted body weight exercises can be more harmful for the spine than 135 pound barbell exercises performed with perfect form. Never is a very strong word. With proper progressive training and excellent form, people can usually build themselves up to be quite strong. It would be far more fruitful to teach proper mechanics than to place a limit on loading and thereby instilling a lifelong fear of strength training.

The squat is well-tolerated if you understand progression-regression continuums. If you start at the appropriate level and perform the movement properly by sitting far back and ensuring that the knees track over the feet, then there’s no reason to worry. You can start with high box squats and work your way down in ROM, then add load in the goblet position. People have to squat in their every day lives, so there’s no avoiding the movement pattern. You can either pretend the squat doesn’t exist, or you can take the time to make sure the individual is squatting correctly; distributing the load properly to the hips to spare the knees.

Many lifters with knee problems shouldn’t avoid squats altogether; they should learn how to squat properly with low load joint-friendly squatting variations. If volume, intensity, and frequency are kept low, these drills are usually therapeutic and prevent future injury.

Lifters with back problems shouldn’t automatically avoid hip-hinging. They should learn how to hinge at the hips while preventing excessive motion in the spine and develop their gluteals. Rack pulls, deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts, kettlebell deadlifts, kettlebell swings, 45 degree hypers, back extensions, and even bodyweight reverse hypers are all good choices as long as proper form is utilized. Many individuals do not keep a relatively neutral spine during many of these movements because they compensate for weak glutes by utilizing excessive spinal motion. If these individuals never master hip hinging mechanics, how will their form look when they pick things up off the ground or perform yard work? Again, the solution isn’t to avoid the movements, it’s to teach and ingrain proper mechanics.

There are indeed plenty of situations where certain individuals would be better off avoiding heavy loading with certain exercises. For example, not everyone is well-suited for squatting and deadlifting. But this doesn’t mean that they couldn’t include goblet squats and dynamic effort deadlifts into their warm-ups so their squat and hip-hinge form remains solid throughout life. But these same folks can find other lifts that they tolerate well, for example Bulgarian split squats, hip thrusts, and Russian leg curls, and they can build up incredible size and strength through these lifts.

It is not my intention to bash all doctors and physical therapists. I’m friends with plenty of world-class docs and PT’s who possess incredible knowledge of S&C. But just as with any profession, there’s a huge gap between the top tier and the average doc or PT when it comes to S&C knowledge (same goes for strength coaches and personal trainers).

Luckily, Gene has two competent strength coach friends (Charles and me) who know what makes him tick and helped him formulate a plan of action. Last weekend, Gene competed in a PL contest and met a fellow 91 year old powerlifter. That’s how I want to be – pullin’ heavy deads til the day I die. Keep doing your thing Gene!


This was posted in Strength Training and tagged age and lifting, gene lawerence, injury, physical therapy on June 15, 2013 by Bret Contreras [blogger, author, personal trainer, CSCS, lifter, and PhD student] www.BretContreras.Com

Mr.Mojo

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Looking At The Squat Through The Eyes Of A Sports Therapist

The Squat

The squat is one of the most commonly used exercises for strengthening the lower body. It is excellent for training the muscles of the buttocks and thighs. It is the quintessential hip extension exercise and hip extension is the foundation of all good human movement. Powerful, controlled hip extension is necessary and nearly sufficient for elite athleticism. Necessary, in that without powerful, controlled hip extension you are not functioning anywhere near your full potential. Sufficient, in the sense that the majority with the capacity to explosively open the hip, could run, jump, throw and punch with impressive force.

Why do we need to be able to squat?

The squat is essential to one’s wellbeing. The squat can both improve your athleticism and maintain correct function at the knees, hips and back, which will benefit you now and later in life. It will play a major roll in whether you can climb the stairs with or without ease when the tender ages of 70 and above arrive. Additionally, the squat is used fundamentally in tasks throughout your day. The bottom position is nature’s intended sitting position, and the rise from the bottom to the stand is the biomechanically sound method by which we stand up.

How hard would every day life be if we were unable to stand properly from the toilet, or had difficulty in getting up off of the floor? The squat technique is used in both of these motions.
What damage can a bad squat do?

It is entirely possible to injure yourself squatting with bad form, just as easily as injuring your back when twisting and bending while picking up your shopping. The key with staying injury free is lifting with CORRECT FORM! The majority of injuries that arise from squatting come from a combination of factors:

    Poor warm up (muscle strain)
    Squatting with the knees over your toes (anterior knee pain)
    Bending your back (lower back problems)
    Lifting too heavy compromising stability
    Allowing your knees to adduct inwards
    Allowing the chest to collapse and the neck to bend forwards
    Poor hip and ankle mobility (hip issues)

Is squatting bad for my knees?

It is common knowledge amongst the uneducated mind that if you have bad knees, avoid squatting. In most cases this is totally WRONG!

Not only is the squat not detrimental to the knees, it is the ideal exercise to rehabilitate and fix so many acute & chronic problems that arise here. For instance, many people suffer from patello-femoral pain (pain around the knee cap). The patella (knee cap) is dynamically controlled and stabilised mostly by the quadriceps (thigh) muscle and if the quadriceps are weak and imbalanced, then there is a high probability that dysfunction at the patello-femoral joint will occur. Squatting meanwhile can help strengthen the quadriceps and stabilise the knee because it is the best exercise to activate this group of muscles.


If you do not squat, your knees may not be healthy, regardless of how free of pain or discomfort you are. With that being said, it is extremely easy to bring the squat to a level of safety, matched by walking.

Maintaining a good squat

There are numerous amounts of cues identified for a perfect squat. It is essential that these top 5 cues are adhered to:

1. Never surrender your lumbar curve (keep a straight back)
2. Keep your midsection tight and activated (core)
3. Squat back onto your heels (this will help prevent your knees going over your toes)

4. Keep your head looking slightly above parallel
3. Don’t let your knees roll inside the foot

Summary

The squat is one of the best exercises you can perform. Squatting will make you stronger, more explosive, more stable and much less likely to injure specific joints such as the knee and hip. If you don’t squat, then start! If you are already squatting, then squat often and always make sure form is over numbers!!!

 

Written by Craig Hardingham

BSc Hons Sports Therapy

anabolichalo

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reality is tho that many have fucked themselves with squatting

Skorp1o

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Chris Chormier eliminated squats from his training for the bulk of his IFBB career following an injury:


S

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Hurt my back squatting in 1988, its never been the same since.
Putting a heavy bar across your shoulders and squatting down with it puts way more stress on the lower back than the legs, and your legs can push way more weight than your low back can take.
Im not saying squats are useless as an excercise, Im saying they are not all that important to building great legs.

anabolichalo

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Hurt my back squatting in 1988, its never been the same since.
Putting a heavy bar across your shoulders and squatting down with it puts way more stress on the lower back than the legs, and your legs can push way more weight than your low back can take.
Im not saying squats are useless as an excercise, Im saying they are not all that important to building great legs.
i feeel it waaay more in my legs than my back tho

legs are always failing not the back

but maybe that's just what it feels like and not what is actually going on ???


you a leg pressing guy then? or hack squats?

or leg extention? i never did leg extentions

Simple Simon

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i feeel it waaay more in my legs than my back tho

legs are always failing not the back

but maybe that's just what it feels like and not what is actually going on ???


you a leg pressing guy then? or hack squats?

or leg extention? i never did leg extentions

10 minutes high intensity bike
6 sets leg press
6 sets leg curls
4 sets standing calfs

BigCyp

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Heavy Squats = Big legs, is on par with creatine loading for extra size, Eat big to get big and so on.

To get big legs, you need to contract the muscles in your leg under a heavy load and adequately rest/feed to promote repair. There are many machines and exercises that facilitate this.

If you like to squat, cool - but it will not give you any extra 'size' or release masses of 'natural GH & Testosterone' lol, maybe if you're 15 and starting out it will give you a hormone boost.

BigCyp

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Saying that, I have a squat rack in my home gym and squat regularly - but I limit it at 2 plates a side and go for 20 reps a set (sometimes 30)

I could do a 1 rep max cold, of 4 plates if I wanted to but....


"My spine's telling me noooooooooo"

"But my ego's, telling me ye e e e eyeyeyeess"

anabolichalo

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Heavy Squats = Big legs, is on par with creatine loading for extra size, Eat big to get big and so on.

To get big legs, you need to contract the muscles in your leg under a heavy load and adequately rest/feed to promote repair. There are many machines and exercises that facilitate this.

If you like to squat, cool - but it will not give you any extra 'size' or release masses of 'natural GH & Testosterone' lol, maybe if you're 15 and starting out it will give you a hormone boost.
i'm going to get to the bottom of these matters


study ifbb training methods and such

seems most dont squat

BigRo

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squats are so demanding on the body they leave less recuperative juices for other muscles, however they are so satisfying in a sick way.

anabolichalo

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squats are so demanding on the body they leave less recuperative juices for other muscles, however they are so satisfying in a sick way.

the champion bodybuilder in my gym does hack squats first full rom with not sure how much weight but a lot, and then goes to do high bar full squats with like 180kg for sets of 8-10

then goes on to do machine hack squat,

then goes on to regular hack squat again, doing some sort of front squat on it, facing the machine

then goes on to do leg extentions


it's fucking insane to witness


and his legs are like they belong to some large cattle animal

BigRo

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thats alot of squat variations, does he go close to failure in his sets or more cutler style

Simple Simon

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thats alot of squat variations, does he go close to failure in his sets or more cutler style
Yep, and they all do pretty much the same thing.

anabolichalo

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thats alot of squat variations, does he go close to failure in his sets or more cutler style
hard to tell

he uses a lot of weigfhts and good form so i would think it's close to failure

but then again i'm not sure  ???

he looks like he's dying in between sets

Mawse

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two days ago I had hip surgery to fix the impingement in my left hip, thank fuck nothing as bad as Ronnie but still not fun

Hopefully it'll be ok in the next six months but pretty much all I'm planning on doing is belt squats, higher rep goblet squats and leg press from now on, with front squats eventually if they work ok

Thinking about buying a nautilus xpload leg press for the garage

Not planning on back squatting again, ever which sucks as I was a pretty good high bar squatter

Nick Danger

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I can't seem to get a good leg workout in without squatting. Although I squat heavy (relative) and deep, I don't have a good natural movement. I've recently incorporated walking lunges with a barbell...those things kill me.

anabolichalo

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todays leg workout

5 sets hack squat, slow down, contracted pause at full bottom, press up, no lockout

only used 70kg for sets of 12-8 which fried legs


5 sets leg press 250kg 15-8 reps

5 sets lying legcurl

5 sets seated legcurl

5sets standing calf
5sets seated calf


feels safe man

anabolichalo

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Chris Chormier eliminated squats from his training for the bulk of his IFBB career following an injury:



CC had sick wheels


calfzilla

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Re: In the light of Ronnie's hip replacements, let's revisit smart leg training
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2014, 03:36:14 AM »
Be honest did you name your son after Ronnie in any way? 

anabolichalo

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Re: In the light of Ronnie's hip replacements, let's revisit smart leg training
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2014, 04:12:29 AM »
Be honest did you name your son after Ronnie in any way? 
nope



i think ronnie is more of a truck drivers name rly

Teutonic Knight

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Re: In the light of Ronnie's hip replacements, let's revisit smart leg training
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2014, 02:16:59 PM »
Gironda legs training is smart 1, no squats  ;)