Author Topic: Are todays pros finally willing to admit that drugs are a bigger part than what (Read 11363 times)

Wiggs · « **on:** February 11, 2006, 10:55:56 AM »

many of them say? I remember on a post on the MM board TP said that drugs are only about 10% and training and nutrition are the other 90% ( I could be worng on the numbers but it's pretty close). Many other pros will echo the same.
I don't know if they do this to protect the young kids out there, or they really believe the crap they spew. We have seen what Flex (who was't even natural when he made his "natural" comeback looked like and for a more dramatic example look at Mike Morris recently.
I'll be the first one to say bodybuilding is not all drugs but I honestly believe that drugs play an equal part to the training and nutrition so what, 33.333333%? In addition to this look at what happened when they tried drug testing back in the early 90s? I forget what Olympia it was I was too young (going on 27) but everyone looked like crap and then the drug testing magically disappears because the "Big Wigs" know.......no drugs, =freaks, =no fans, =no money, =no IFBB.
I'm just getting sick and tired of the pros saying thay only play a small part. Drugs will do something training and nutrition can't. If you have crap symmetry or frame or whatever you all want to call it. You can add loads of muscle and people will forget about the asthetically pleasing part. See JP Fux, Art Atwood, Jumbo Palumbo, Greg Kovacs, and others for examples. If these guys and other didn't possess the mass they had they would have never gone pro. I will admit all these guy looked much better when they won their pro cards with the exception of Palumbo of course. What does that say about bodybuilding? Well, it says two things, if I don't have the genetics just add a bunch of muscle, keep my belly somewhat in tact (unless I'm Mr. Olympia j/k....but not really) come in ripped and your successful. How will I add this muscle?.....Food, training and drugs, drugs drugs. Am I "hating" on the above gentlemen? Nope they are currently more successful than I am in terms of money. I'm just a fan evaluating our sport and giving facts. On the flip side you have guys like Melvin, Darrem, Mark Dugdale, Ronnie Rockel, Dexter, and Shawn who have been blessed with an asthetically pleasing physique but because they don't weigh XXX they'll never be Mr. Olympia.
To kind of get away from subject, Shawn Ray had been the most out spoken guy about this and I had and still have alot of respect for him because of this but it was sad to see a legend of our sport be forced out because he came to terms that he'd never be Mr. O because of the crappy judging system (By the way I couldn't believe the explanation on the posing round I nearly sh*t myself when they admitted it was just another muscularity round, I'll do post on that another time.)
In conclusion, I have the utmost respect for the pro bodybuilders, if I offended any of them, sorry but what I speak is the truth, I might not be a pro but I've been around bodybuilding and bodybuilders for over 10 years and in this short ten years I've seen alot and heard alot. When I post I like to try and stick to 2/3 facts and the rest opinions.
Well this rant was theraputic, I'm sure I'll get some flames but I welcome them.
See you at FIBO
Excuse the typos I'm too lazy to go back and correct anything...Ciao

DIVISION · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:00:19 AM »

I agree.

It's at least 30-50% of responsible for most success in the upper echelons of bodybuilding. You have to have decent genetics regardless, but once you are there on the stage alot of it is training, nutrition and the amount of androgens you ingest.

It's basic science.

DIV

Earl1972 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:22:22 AM »

you gotta have the right shape and structure too

E

Bluto · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:24:20 AM »

genetics play a bigger part than all that other stuff

gordiano · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:30:41 AM »

Drugs in bodybuilding............ .......no way!

BayGBM · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:32:36 AM »

There is zero incentive to admit this... so don't hold your breath waiting for the admissions. You know the truth. Move on.

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:32:52 AM »

Quote from: Bluto on February 11, 2006, 11:24:20 AM

genetics play a bigger part than all that other stuff

very true.

dirk digler · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2006, 11:37:14 AM »

Think about it. These drugs were made to work on people with wasting ilnesses like aids. Imagine what they do to someone who eats and lifts weights.Top bbers deny this because it cuts into the believed myths about bbing work ethics and healthy living.

the choad · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:27:08 PM »

drugs are impotant...However drugs alone won't make you win contests. Case in point: dave polumbo, MArkus Ruhl, Heiko, JP flux. These guys have terrible genetics.

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:33:54 PM »

i don't think they have terrible genitics.

Shawn Ray · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:34:37 PM »

Drugs dont win contests but lack of Drug Testing certainly challenges ones "Line I wont Cross" school of thought. For some there is no line, for others there's a limit. That being said, with no Testing, the door is open to walk in or out regarding competition. If the Heat is to Hot in the Kitchen, get out. If you stay, you know the deal.
At the end of the day, I never cared what others took, oly what I was willing and Not Willing to do to be the best I can. When i felt I accomplished that, I left sans a Sandow but my health in tact and my accomplishments worthy of discussion.
Why would Pro's admit to Drugs and their role unless they felt they were being cheated because of the lack of Testing?
Everyone knows the deal, therefore, none of the Pro's talk about them. All the drugs in the world would not "Make" someone better than Ronnie, Dorian or Haney. Sure they have a percentage impact but please, not many people have the work ethic, dedication, genetics or the time to be half of what these men were.
We can blame drugs or point at others who use them, bottom line, until or unless the Testing resumes, we are all whistling in the wind.......... $:-\$

SLYY · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:38:37 PM »

Quote from: the choad on February 11, 2006, 12:27:08 PM

drugs are impotant...However drugs alone won't make you win contests. Case in point: dave polumbo, MArkus Ruhl, Heiko, JP flux. These guys have terrible genetics.

Terrible genetics? They are huge pro' s and therefore have the ablity to hold a ton of muscle. Can you do that on steroids? How many of your average juicers at your gym look like them? How many fans at Bodybuilding shows are as large as them?......Only their fellow pro or top amatures.
So, no they do not have terrible genetics....

the choad · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:40:26 PM »

Quote from: SLYY on February 11, 2006, 12:38:37 PM

Terrible genetics? They are huge pro' s and therefore have the ablity to hold a ton of muscle. Can you do that on steroids? How many of your average juicers at your gym look like them? How many fans at Bodybuilding shows are as large as them?......Only their fellow pro or top amatures.
So, no they do not have terrible genetics....

i suppose they got beaten with the ugly stick..

SLYY · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:41:25 PM »

Quote from: the choad on February 11, 2006, 12:40:26 PM

i suppose they got beaten with the ugly stick..

They are bodybuilders, not male models....

240 is Back · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:42:26 PM »

Quote from: Shawn Ray on February 11, 2006, 12:34:37 PM

until or unless the Testing resumes, we are all whistling in the wind.......... $:-\$

Shawn, why don't you call for testing at your own contest, the Colorado Pro?

You'll put your name and face on a contest, but won't use this positional power to change things for the better?

Wiggs · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:58:25 PM »

Quote from: SLYY on February 11, 2006, 12:38:37 PM

Terrible genetics? They are huge pro' s and therefore have the ablity to hold a ton of muscle. Can you do that on steroids? How many of your average juicers at your gym look like them? How many fans at Bodybuilding shows are as large as them?......Only their fellow pro or top amatures.
So, no they do not have terrible genetics....

If you want a recipe for a pro I guess it would go something like, consistant training nutrition, and drugs. Key word being CONSISTANT. Then you gotta have decent genetics. What is meant by genetics? Well, in terms of bodybuilding it means the ability to build and hold onto muscle, response to "drugs", asthetics, and then conditioning, (some people bodies will only get so dry in terms of conditioning ie: Melvin Anthony). It's simple but that's it.
Many of us don't have the consistancy part down that's why when it comes to the elite pros it's their constancy ie: Ronnie, Jay and Dorian that sets these guys apart from us normal folk........in addition to their genetics of course.
240 read the latest edition of MD, you start drug testing shows, you get just average looking guys on stage and I myself will not pay to see something average. Neither will about 75% of the audience. An unfortunate catch 22

240 is Back · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:02:04 PM »

Quote from: Big_Wiggs on February 11, 2006, 12:58:25 PM

240 read the latest edition of MD, you start drug testing shows, you get just average looking guys on stage and I myself will not pay to see something average. Neither will about 75% of the audience.

I agree, drugs are required and drugs are necessary for business. I just dislike reading hypocrites talking about "there are too much drugs in this sport", then putting on pro shows this May 12 in Colorado.

Or, those that brag about gear use, then enter Musclemania shows.

FreakBB7243 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:40:54 PM »

you mean like Matt T.?

Childish///AMG · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:52:20 PM »

I met an old pro who told me that he maintained his body with a "Supply" of
roids. He was the first pro, that admitted this to me. Not that I was shocked by the roid fact, but by his honest admission. This happened when mi-espousa and I were at the 05 Olympia Expo

The Luke · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2006, 03:07:32 PM »

Has anyone considered that if average looking guys were winning contests maybe more of the spectators would considered competing??

The Luke

hangclean · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2006, 03:21:54 PM »

Quote from: The Luke on February 11, 2006, 03:07:32 PM

Has anyone considered that if average looking guys were winning contests maybe more of the spectators would considered competing??
The Luke

The bar has been rising higher and higher each year. What your saying is that the amount of muscle on the competitors would have to be less and the "sport" is called bodybuilding. That wont work.

rufjunk · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2006, 04:25:18 PM »

I think there's two comon points that try to be made in debates of this fashion.

Drugs aren't what make pro's, it's only a small part when compared to the work ethic and dedication it takes. Anyone can take drugs, its the hardwork and genetics that sets people apart.

Drugs do play a role, obviously gear can put a lot of mass on a persons frame. It's easy for outsiders looking in to assume its all drugs because that individual casually lifts weights and isn't nearly as big. It really comes down to work ethic I think.

Hendrix · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2006, 04:38:47 PM »

Its 50/50 Genetics, Diet,Hunger to lift weights properly and efficiantly.Then its Drugs for the remaining 50%no matter how good your genetics are no drugs you will not be competetive sad really.
Steroids in general i have know problem with but Insulin,HGH,IGF scare the living shit out of me anyone with some knowledge could they ansew how much weight do you gain just with these drugs not including roids.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2006, 05:35:11 PM »

Pros don't need to admit that drugs are a big part of the sport. It's pretty obvious. But even with drug use/abuse, you don't get to be Mr. Olympia without doing things like 100 yard lunges with 3 plates or investing the kind of time and effort that gave Shawn Ray one of the best physiques in bodybuilding history.

I agree that testing is the real issue.

Drugs aren't just a big part of bodybuilding. Football, baseball, basketball, track, and even cycling all have their fair share of abusers. Only track and cycling, of all sports, are serious about drug testing IMO.

Vince G, CSN MFT · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2006, 09:25:14 AM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on February 11, 2006, 12:42:26 PM

Shawn, why don't you call for testing at your own contest, the Colorado Pro?
You'll put your name and face on a contest, but won't use this positional power to change things for the better?

Drug testing is very expensive and cost thousands of dollars. Even with all of that, there are still ways to get away with it. Read some of my article in my "Keeping it Real Newsletter"