What is your opinion on work pensions?

[King Shizzo]

With the advent of stock purchase plans and 401k, why do some companies still feel the need to have pensions?

Why would a business continue to pay someone after they have retired? Isn't that what a paycheck is for?

And we wonder why we see layoffs and cutbacks. How about we stop paying people that do not even work for the company anymore?

Can someone please fill me in on how the armed forces, firefighters, and police retirements work?

Do they have 401k or other options besides pensions?

Are pensions dying out because of 401k?

[the trainer]

Dont worry with the way you are going you will most likely die from alcohol poisoning so old age and pension is the least of your problems. 

[King Shizzo]

I remember my grandfather retiring from Publix with a pension. I do not believe Publix offers pensions anymore.

Did people have to pay a certain amount per check to get a pension? We all know that we obviously do for 401k.

[Henda]

Over here we are auto enrolled into work based pensions where our employer matches your contribution up to a max of 4%(I think) of your pay.
I opted out, as I worked out I'd have paid in 54 grand by the time I'm 75 and it will only pay out aroun 15 grand lump sum and 100 odd quid a month. You could get a buy to let property for around a 10 grand investment and as long as it's let it will fetch near 300 quid a month after mortgage payment from now till you die, far better investment i reckon

[gym**rat]

Pensions are basically unheard of anymore. Especially since the average employee stays at a job around 3 years last I heard. I have been at the same company for 27 years this month. I have a pension and a 401 that I contribute to. About 5 years ago they gave old timers that were grandfathered like me the choice to continue get matching on 401 or keep getting pension and they contribute nothing to 401. The pension was a better deal. I should be pretty comfy in about 8 years when I retire.

[tu_holmes]

Some companies still have pensions. They are few and far between.

Government jobs are almost always pension based.

[King Shizzo]

Over here we are auto enrolled into work based pensions where our employer matches your contribution up to a max of 4%(I think) of your pay.
I opted out, as I worked out I'd have paid in 54 grand by the time I'm 75 and it will only pay out aroun 15 grand lump sum and 100 odd quid a month. You could get a buy to let property for around a 10 grand investment and as long as it's let it will fetch near 300 quid a month after mortgage payment from now till you die, far better investment i reckon

I see. I guess the 401k has replaced the pension plan somewhat.

Why would a company take 54k from you, only to offer a 15 grand lump sum?

Maybe I misjudged pension plans? Maybe it is not free money given to people after retiring.

[Nails]

the IFBB gives bodybuilders Work Pensions 

[King Shizzo]

Some companies still have pensions. They are few and far between.

Government jobs are almost always pension based.

Thats because they can't leverage a 401k correct? They don't have stocks to invest in. Right?

Although you do bring up a good point. The government is notorious for overspending and having legendary retirment packages.

Can anyone dig up some government pension plans? For congress, the senate, normal 9-5ers in the government sector?

[tu_holmes]

Thats because they can't leverage a 401k correct? They don't have stocks to invest in. Right?

Although you do bring up a good point. The government is notorious for overspending and having legendary retirment packages.

Can anyone dig up some government pension plans? For congress, the senate, normal 9-5ers in the government sector?

They can leverage what's called a 457... It's the government version of 401k

There is no stock in government, however, the 457 is built like a 401k where they take your money and invest it with other people's money to buy up private sector stock and invest it.

[ENZO]

Can't answer those questions..but here in France we have a tax funded pension and mandatory employer programs

[King Shizzo]

How Generous Are Federal Employee Pensions?

Andrew Biggs | September 30, 2011, 10:27 am


USA Today reports that “retirement programs for former federal workers—civilian and military—are growing so fast they now face a multitrillion-dollar shortfall nearly as big as Social Security’s.” USA Today’s figures include both pension and retiree health costs and are inclusive of military programs, so it is a broad figure. Nevertheless, it raises an interesting question: how did retirement costs for a small segment of the population grow to rival Social Security, a program designed to cover nearly all Americans? One big reason is that federal pension benefits are simply very generous relative to typical private sector plans.

for the rest of the article: http://www.aei-ideas.org/2011/09/how-generous-are-federal-employee-pensions/

[Shockwave]

Boeing is taking our pension come 2016. Were already paid far more than average and we have good retirements plans and 401k/stock options, but the old timers are fucking losing their mind that Boeing decided they cant afford to continue paying so many uneducated idiots exorbitant wages AND pay for them after they retire. (majority of of our line/production workers are grade 4s and 6s maxing out at 32/hr to drill a fucking hole)

Basically, theyre shifting the burden of responsibility from the company to the employee to save for their retirement, and theyre offering a decent retirement to replace it.... but people want someone else to take care of them.

[King Shizzo]

Boeing is taking our pension come 2016. Were already paid far more than average and we have good retirements plans and 401k/stock options, but the old timers are fucking losing their mind that Boeing decided they cant afford to continue paying so many uneducated idiots exorbitant wages AND pay for them after they retire. (majority of of our line/production workers are grade 4s and 6s maxing out at 32/hr to drill a fucking hole)

Basically, theyre shifting the burden of responsibility from the company to the employee to save for their retirement, and theyre offering a decent retirement to replace it.... but people want someone else to take care of them.

x2. The company should only have to provide you with a paycheck, decent working conditions, and options for your future (which you are in charge of)

People are always wanting something for nothing.

[Howard]

Pensions are basically unheard of anymore. Especially since the average employee stays at a job around 3 years last I heard. I have been at the same company for 27 years this month. I have a pension and a 401 that I contribute to. About 5 years ago they gave old timers that were grandfathered like me the choice to continue get matching on 401 or keep getting pension and they contribute nothing to 401. The pension was a better deal. I should be pretty comfy in about 8 years when I retire.

I'll have a pension from my state post secondary retirement fund ( I teach at a medium sized public college).
My dad and grandfathers all had pensions along with my uncles.

The avg CEO back in the 1980's made 30x what the avg company worker made. Now it's 400x as much or more.
By ending pensions the top 1% were better able to afford that 2nd yacht or vacation villa in the Virgin Islands.

The corporations  realized you make a lot more pure profit at the top end IF you shafted the workers.
Conservative talk did their part , by constantly saying pensions and benefits were forms of socialism and welfare.

People are now tricked into actually believing this and won't have much $$ when they retire.
Most people live paycheck to paycheck and must magically think the retirement fairy will be there when they get old.

[King Shizzo]

What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
 
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)

Do they use that money ( that the workers put in)  as leverage/operating income?

What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?

[tu_holmes]

What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
 
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)

Do they use that money ( that the workers put in)  as leverage/operating income?

What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?

They can often drop the money into their own stock... often there's a certain percentage of any 401K fund that is dropped into their own stock (keeping the value at a certain level hopefully and giving them operating funds) the rest then goes towards other stocks.

[King Shizzo]

They can often drop the money into their own stock... often there's a certain percentage of any 401K fund that is dropped into their own stock (keeping the value at a certain level hopefully and giving them operating funds) the rest then goes towards other stocks.

So we are giving them more money, and hoping that it pays off in 20-30 years?

[tu_holmes]

So we are giving them more money, and hoping that it pays off in 20-30 years?

Sometimes... yes.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Remember, if the place you work at is doing well, you should and would in this scenario, reap that benefit.

Now of course, you can have your Enron type places that bleed the employees dry and leave them with nothing, but realistically, they are not common incidents.

Still good to be on the lookout, just in case.

[Henda]

I see. I guess the 401k has replaced the pension plan somewhat.

Why would a company take 54k from you, only to offer a 15 grand lump sum?

Maybe I misjudged pension plans? Maybe it is not free money given to people after retiring.

With our private pension you get a lump sum and the rest as a monthly payment.

If you took that 50 k and bought 5 buy to let's with a 10 k deposit on each after 25 years when the mortgages are paid off you will be collecting 2500 a month in rent or you could have spent 40 years paying in 60 grand into pension and be lucky if you get 200 quid a month.

[ProudVirgin69]

What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
 
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)

Do they use that money ( that the workers put in)  as leverage/operating income?

What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?

Companies will typically offer similar compensation for similar positions.  The companies who offer pensions will pay their employees less salary than the companies who don't have pensions for their employees, so the total money paid out to employees will be similar.

With that being said, I don't think guaranteed pensions exist anymore outside of government jobs...the pensions that are offered nowadays are typically based on the company's performance.  If the company does well that year, you get your full pension.  If it has a bad year, you get less.

Guaranteed pensions paid out to autoworkers are partly what bankrupted the American car companies.

[Primemuscle]

With the advent of stock purchase plans and 401k, why do some companies still feel the need to have pensions?

Why would a business continue to pay someone after they have retired? Isn't that what a paycheck is for?

And we wonder why we see layoffs and cutbacks. How about we stop paying people that do not even work for the company anymore?

Can someone please fill me in on how the armed forces, firefighters, and police retirements work?

Do they have 401k or other options besides pensions?

Are pensions dying out because of 401k?

Often times, employers offer retirement plans and benefits instead of better pay. Since not everyone takes advantage of these offers, it actually saves the employer money.

Firefighters and Police personal, etc. are public employees. Public employees are usually offered PERS (Public Employees Retirement System) which is different from a 401K and which varies from state to state.

Military personal receive federal retirement based on length of service and rank/pay.

The is nothing prohibiting folks with employer provided retirement, whether public or private, from investing additional money in their own retirement via a 401K. Often the only barrier is having enough cash flow to afford this additional investment. The money you put into a 401K is taken out of your pay as pre tax dollars. You pay taxes on it when you draw it out of the account after you retire. It is required that you begin drawing money out in the year you reach 70 1/2 or you are penalized.

Many companies have scaled back on pensions. Public Employees Retirement Systems have also been reduced in many states. I don't know if 401K's have much to do with this or if it is just a result of the downturn in the economy.

[Primemuscle]

I remember my grandfather retiring from Publix with a pension. I do not believe Publix offers pensions anymore.

Did people have to pay a certain amount per check to get a pension? We all know that we obviously do for 401k.

Oregon PERS requires employees pay 6% of their pay into a retirement account. That money is currently held in a separate account from PERS and distributed at the time of retirement with a variety of options. It no longer counts towards one's monthly payout. Before someone can qualify for PERS they must have a certain number of hours worked within a year. Many public employers keep employees just below this threshold to avoid paying into their retirement.

[Primemuscle]

x2. The company should only have to provide you with a paycheck, decent working conditions, and options for your future (which you are in charge of)

People are always wanting something for nothing.

The job market is more competitive during flush times than it is in lean times. Wages and benefits are driven by this. Employers, whether private or public only pay as much as they have to in order to attract qualified personnel. Whether it's wages or benefits makes little difference to employers, it is all considered employee costs.

[Primemuscle]

The average Social Security award is a little over $15K a year. It would be pretty difficult for anyone to survive today on such a meager amount of money. This is why folks are encouraged to save or invest for their own retirement. Unfortunately, the bulk of the population fail to do this. The average retirement savings in the U.S. is currently less then $20K with a large sector having less then $5k in retirement savings. Personally, I would barely make it a month on 5K.