Author Topic: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics  (Read 9916 times)

Disgusted

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Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« on: October 08, 2014, 02:20:57 PM »
Through out the years we have definitely seen a change not only in the size of BBers but also the shape and conditioning too. Today it’s very common for guys to “miss their peak”. Years ago this rarely happened at the top level. Todays look has the top guys looking very big and full almost like their muscle were inflated with air. Yes we do see some striations of the muscle groups mainly the glutes and triceps. We see some good separation  but long gone are the deep claw like  striations that appeared in the shoulders and chest like the guys from the 70’s,  80’s and the early 90’s. They had a granite type look to them. It was a different look back then and I’m guessing that human evolution has little to do with the fact that they look so much different today.  ;) Enter in GH and insulin. I’ve been around this sport for longer than I care to admit been around the heart of it all growing up near Pittsburgh which is NPC country. I’ve trained a few pros and plenty of amateurs over the last 30 years. I say this only to qualify  little about what I speak of.  OK so back on point and I am going to keep this briefer than what I normally would since I am on this site and don’t really know the text limit.
 
I’ll first talk briefly about Insulin. Insulin is an aging hormone that also promotes fat storage mainly visceral fat. Normally in in a regular person when they start dieting the first fat to go is the visceral fat or the fat that is mainly stored behind the abdominal wall. If one is using insulin this visceral fat will not go away first and will be very resistant to being used as energy The distended guts that we see so much today is actually fat behind the abdominal wall not enlarged organ growth. If an organ was that inflamed as to make the stomach stick out that far number 1 we would not see it done in such an even manner through out the ab region and number 2 I suspect this person would not live very long simply because such an enlarged organ would not function properly.  
 
So why is it that we are seeing such unevenly distributed amounts of fat on the current guys today? Well there it is a two fold issue. We are seeing striated glutes right? These guys must be dieting hard right? Well in fact most of them are so it has to be genetics right? In a word NO! Look at it this way, when you go to the store to buy a cut of meat some cuts are leaner than others. Some cuts are very void of fat. I’m not talking about the part that the butcher trims off I am talking about the inner part that is marbleized with fat through out the entire cut. Some parts of the cow are leaner than other because of the fat receptors within the muscle itself. It’s the same in a human, certain parts of our anatomy as far as out musculature has a different density and fat receptors within.
 
With all the insulin that is being used today it is nearly impossible to get completely shredded. Remember earlier when I said that insulin promotes fat storage well it does and it does so in a non discriminatory way. Hence the ripped glutes striated triceps but to a lesser degree more marbilized fat storage within other muscle groups mainly in the torso area and the distended stomachs we commonly see today. So no it is not genetics that allows a person to get down to a very low level of body fat. So yes it really is easier for someone who is natural or has only used steroids to get a more striated look.
 
To touch upon GH breifly. At first GH does seems to help put on size and make one look better, but if you have noticed after years of long term high dose use a lot of the pros are unable to get back to their extremely lean ripped look they first had in their career. The one thing that GH will do after years of use is thicken the skin. Do I really need to say anymore on that matter? In fact that is one of the main benefits of GH  as peoples skin gets thinner as they age.
 
One last thing about genetics. With all things being equal as far as fat levels go the part that is genetic about striations is the actual pattern of the muscle fibers themselves. Each person will have not only have a certain number of visible rows of fibers but the actual rows themselves will sometimes be more straight and this may make one appear to be more ripped or make a flexed muscle look more impressive while flexed. You see this a lot in the glute tricep and delt area. This is one of the main reasons Doug Miller looks so impressive with a low level of body fat. He was blessed not only with a pleasing muscle shape, but also good muscle fiber placement.  

Skorp1o

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 02:31:00 PM »
Great read...thanks for sharing Disgusting
S

a_pupil

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 02:31:16 PM »
thread should be stickied with noone's

question from another thread:

for clean/nattie guys, do you think dieting without carbs can be done without looking like a string bean due to losing fullness in the muscles? are there any differences to your methods leaning down a nattie vs a juicer?

Disgusted

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 02:35:51 PM »
thread should be stickied with noone's

question from another thread:

for clean/nattie guys, do you think dieting without carbs can be done without looking like a string bean due to losing fullness in the muscles? are there any differences to your methods leaning down a nattie vs a juicer?

NO difference and if dieting correctly no loss of mass. At times fullness will not be 100% depending on amount of glycogen in the muscle.

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 02:37:58 PM »
NO difference and if dieting correctly no loss of mass. At times fullness will not be 100% depending on amount of glycogen in the muscle.
+1

and great read, thanks for that.

Disgusted

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 02:45:44 PM »
+1

and great read, thanks for that.

Thanks  :)

no one

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 02:56:17 PM »
see. this is great shit. opinion based on experience. how can you debate an opinion based on experience. you just cant. thats what makes experience so powerful. you can always have differing opinions based on differing experiences but neither will be 'wrong'.

to touch on disgusted last paragraph- that bodies way of holding fat differs from person to person as well. some guys look very impressive and even leanish, despite having higher bodyfat levels. thats the guy who once he tries to diet down, often finds himself shrinking away to nothing. he chalks it up to cardio eating his muscle, the diet being too low on protein or another myriad of excuses that he uses to salve the fact that he never really had that uch tissue to begin with. he just had a a lot of fat masquerading as muscle.

one of two things happens at this point. he pulls the plug on his diet, and decides to be a permabulker his whole life, or he guts it out, takes his lumps and grinds out the diet until the actual shape of his body finally starts to come in.

which are you going to be?

to speak on gh, i stopped using it about a year and a half ago. what i find gh does it volumises the cell. it blows you up. when you go off that disappears. they say gh creates new fiber. ok, then why when you go off does that 3d look go with it? if thats really fiber and tissue your creating where did it go? new tissue doesnt just go away. you cant take something and make it nothing. lol

so then whats the deal? i think gh is an expensive way to look full and 3 dimensional. much like with anabolics you are strictly renting that look for as long as you maintain that dosage. so to those of you thinking about doing it, but dont have the budget, be forewarned.

i think someone can look absolutely amazing without the need for gh. in fact if your not going to compete, save your money. there are compounds that will give you similar fullness but not the 3d effect- i think thats strictly the realm of gh. npp and real anavar come to mind.

this leads me to another point. the 3d look. how do you get that 'roundness' ,that 3dness without gh. for the most part thats the realm of gh and genetics. black guys in the inner cities who live on basketball courts have the genetics for roundness. thats not gh. thats genetics. as a white dude is it possible to get the same kind of roundness if you dont have the genetics for it. i 100% believe that you can. but your sure as fuck never going to get it training one body part a day for a half assed hour.



b

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 01:58:54 PM »
bump

no one

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 03:07:33 PM »
bump

no kidding.

i sometimes wonder how many serious lifters actually post here when a thread like this goes largely unnoticed.
b

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 03:15:56 PM »
see. this is great shit. opinion based on experience. how can you debate an opinion based on experience. you just cant. thats what makes experience so powerful. you can always have differing opinions based on differing experiences but neither will be 'wrong'.

to touch on disgusted last paragraph- that bodies way of holding fat differs from person to person as well. some guys look very impressive and even leanish, despite having higher bodyfat levels. thats the guy who once he tries to diet down, often finds himself shrinking away to nothing. he chalks it up to cardio eating his muscle, the diet being too low on protein or another myriad of excuses that he uses to salve the fact that he never really had that uch tissue to begin with. he just had a a lot of fat masquerading as muscle.

one of two things happens at this point. he pulls the plug on his diet, and decides to be a permabulker his whole life, or he guts it out, takes his lumps and grinds out the diet until the actual shape of his body finally starts to come in.

which are you going to be?

to speak on gh, i stopped using it about a year and a half ago. what i find gh does it volumises the cell. it blows you up. when you go off that disappears. they say gh creates new fiber. ok, then why when you go off does that 3d look go with it? if thats really fiber and tissue your creating where did it go? new tissue doesnt just go away. you cant take something and make it nothing. lol

so then whats the deal? i think gh is an expensive way to look full and 3 dimensional. much like with anabolics you are strictly renting that look for as long as you maintain that dosage. so to those of you thinking about doing it, but dont have the budget, be forewarned.

i think someone can look absolutely amazing without the need for gh. in fact if your not going to compete, save your money. there are compounds that will give you similar fullness but not the 3d effect- i think thats strictly the realm of gh. npp and real anavar come to mind.

this leads me to another point. the 3d look. how do you get that 'roundness' ,that 3dness without gh. for the most part thats the realm of gh and genetics. black guys in the inner cities who live on basketball courts have the genetics for roundness. thats not gh. thats genetics. as a white dude is it possible to get the same kind of roundness if you dont have the genetics for it. i 100% believe that you can. but your sure as fuck never going to get it training one body part a day for a half assed hour.





So true on the renting concept.. you could expand that definition to include higher doses of gear and all the rest.  These days I am good with just living life and cruising on HRT doses... for most sane people, the older you get, the more absurd the concept of jeopardizing your health for rented muscle becomes.

anabolichalo

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 03:17:08 PM »
cliffs

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 03:22:35 PM »
Impressive post, seems like you know your stuff.  I still think Doug is on the juice though

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 03:37:24 PM »
Nice observation.. But please differentiate Inflammation from actual Hyperplasia of organs...  Inflammation of organs would mean there is an immune response being triggered within the particular organ spoken of.  Hyperplasia is a completely different mechanism that will be triggered via Abuse of Growth Hormone.. As it is seen in individuals of Acromegaly.  Hyperplasia of bone densities, soft tissue, organs, etc. are inevitable consequences of GH - FACT !     Not Inflammation..    I am not speaking of the the genetic allocation of adipocytes.(which is partially correct in your observation).  But in a GH abuser> Organs ARE going through hyperplasia.. Paranchymal receptors of all these tissues, organs, etc. have a binding affinity to GH , which will eventually trigger the cascade events of Gene Transcription within that particular cell.  Further, this will induce the proliferation of these targeted cells via enzyme construction, scaffolding of new tissue, and all other necessary proteins involved in creating growth.       Once again,  organs that are inflamed exhibit a completely different mechanism in comparison to cell proliferation via hyperplasia(where there are actual cells dividing and increasing in #)     Hypertrophy (if you guys are getting confused w/ terminology) is increase in Size of that particular cell i.e/ skeletal muscle fiber   ...   We can have hypertrophy of skeletal muscle but not hyperplasia

the trainer

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 03:38:31 PM »
I just beat noone in nutrition discussion so I am enjoying the victory right now, the next step is to beat you in steroid discussion but we will get to that soon enough.

calfzilla

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 04:13:30 PM »
So basically pros need to stick to steroids and get rid of gh and insulin to look good.

oldschoolfan

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2014, 04:19:00 PM »
great article disgusted 

one quick question do you feel , anyone can get reasonably cut,  im not saying contest cut,  but say like stallone looked like in the 90's  like for cliffhanger, and the specialist, or is that

level of leaness  unattainable without drugs,  thanks for answering my question. 

the trainer

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2014, 04:26:41 PM »
Listen to me disgusted
If you are caught with steroids it means you are busted
But I wonder if your advice can really be trusted
My flow is sweet like when a cake is crusted 

MC trainer in da house.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 04:48:07 PM »
Good points by Disgusted.

Something I mentioned before as the reason for lack of cuts in the delts in particular
is site injections,  particularly with UG gear. Most pros' delts are completely fucked by repeated injections. Tons of scar tissue and lumps and bumps.

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2014, 05:04:59 PM »
When my stomach is falt, my arms and legs become dry and veiny!

When my friends stomach is flat his armes and legs are just bulky! I have seen several people with this bodytype, bulky arms and legs while stomach flat. Guess they have the fatmuscles...nice to fry! Bad for bb stage!

I guess Big Ramys leg are fatmuscles! He cant get the cuts and ryness! Dorian was pure muscle! And....MUNZER : )

Disgusted

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2014, 05:20:52 PM »
Nice observation.. But please differentiate Inflammation from actual Hyperplasia of organs...  Inflammation of organs would mean there is an immune response being triggered within the particular organ spoken of.  Hyperplasia is a completely different mechanism that will be triggered via Abuse of Growth Hormone.. As it is seen in individuals of Acromegaly.  Hyperplasia of bone densities, soft tissue, organs, etc. are inevitable consequences of GH - FACT !     Not Inflammation..    I am not speaking of the the genetic allocation of adipocytes.(which is partially correct in your observation).  But in a GH abuser> Organs ARE going through hyperplasia.. Paranchymal receptors of all these tissues, organs, etc. have a binding affinity to GH , which will eventually trigger the cascade events of Gene Transcription within that particular cell.  Further, this will induce the proliferation of these targeted cells via enzyme construction, scaffolding of new tissue, and all other necessary proteins involved in creating growth.       Once again,  organs that are inflamed exhibit a completely different mechanism in comparison to cell proliferation via hyperplasia(where there are actual cells dividing and increasing in #)     Hypertrophy (if you guys are getting confused w/ terminology) is increase in Size of that particular cell i.e/ skeletal muscle fiber   ...   We can have hypertrophy of skeletal muscle but not hyperplasia

I am talking about visceral fat behind the abdominal wall being the culprit in the case of distended stomachs we see on stage not inflammation nor hyperplasia of any giving organ. For example, I have seen up close someone with an inflamed liver from sclerosis and it's not in anyway a symmetrical look like you see from these guy on stage. He had an extremely lumpy look almost like a bowling ball was sticking  out from under his lower rib cage.

Disgusted

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2014, 05:22:25 PM »
great article disgusted 

one quick question do you feel , anyone can get reasonably cut,  im not saying contest cut,  but say like stallone looked like in the 90's  like for cliffhanger, and the specialist, or is that

level of leaness  unattainable without drugs,  thanks for answering my question. 

Any level of leanness can be achieved through diet. Drugs have nothing to do with it.

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2014, 05:41:55 PM »
GREAT read !!

Bevo

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2014, 06:28:05 PM »
Awesome!

GH in low dosages do u recommend?

It's the high dosages obviously that's contributing to the look but with low 2-5 IUS daily serious sides shouldn't happen right? Even after yrs of use?

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2014, 06:36:47 PM »
Good factoid about fullness from real var. I noticed that as well running 40mg/daily, fullness and vascularity were crazy even though im not very lean.

Antonio fella

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Re: Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2014, 07:51:23 PM »
Disgusted,

Thank you for sharing, very informative. I just have one concern regarding your gh statement.

Quote
To touch upon GH breifly. At first GH does seems to help put on size and make one look better, but if you have noticed after years of long term high dose use a lot of the pros are unable to get back to their extremely lean ripped look they first had in their career. The one thing that GH will do after years of use is thicken the skin. Do I really need to say anymore on that matter? In fact that is one of the main benefits of GH  as peoples skin gets thinner as they age.

If you say long use of gh will make things bad and it won't be possible to achieve that same look from years before, how come then we see Dexter still competing, or Tony Freeman? How old are they.... pushing 50? They look phenomenal - of course not their best BEST, but amazingly beating much much younger guys on stage.
!