Federal Appeals Court Reinstates Texas Voter ID Law

[Shockwave]

if you're going to look the other way while someone rips YOU off and fraudulently votes in YOUR elections then you have nothing to complain about regard requiring a photo ID to vote or even in a debate about welfare fraud or illegal immigration

We're not talking about turning your neighbor in who cheats on his taxes

These are illegal aliens committing multiple crimes and you have a civic duty to not look the other way

I'm sure you're aware that law enforcement depends on help from citizens all the time so your excuse that it's "their job" to catch criminals is complete bullshit

yeah, well thats all well and good for you. You go crusading then. I don't, and won't. The only time i'd intervene in someones personal life is if someone is in mortal danger, and possibly a few others.


Your post is so full of bullshit that i dont even know where to start, but it definitely shows me your character.

[Tedim]

The law will prevent over 600,000 US citizens from voting in the election...period.   

Too bad they're all dead and vote democrat......oh wait, win 

[Straw Man]

yeah, well thats all well and good for you. You go crusading then. I don't, and won't. The only time i'd intervene in someones personal life is if someone is in mortal danger, and possibly a few others.


Your post is so full of bullshit that i dont even know where to start, but it definitely shows me your character.

It shows my character ?

that's a laugh

you turn a blind eye to multiple criminal activities while at the same time complaining about them

kind of hard to justify those two positions

[Straw Man]

Too bad they're all dead and vote democrat......oh wait, win 

yep, that is the intent of the law

glad to see someone here who is honest about it

of course it is the antithesis of democracy but who gives a shit about that

[Shockwave]

It shows my character ?

that's a laugh

you turn a blind eye to multiple criminal activities while at the same time complaining about them

kind of hard to justify those two positions

I refuse to meddle in other people lives when theyre not directly harming someone. Period.

That in no way invalidates my opinion that they should have to prove their identity to vote to help keep that from happening and to keep the system functioning correctly, and you assertation that by not turning them invalidates my right to want voter ID is another pathetic leao of logic akin to "of you dont vote you have no right to comment/have an opinion".

Its asinine.

I

[Straw Man]

I refuse to meddle in other people lives when theyre not directly harming someone. Period.

That in no way invalidates my opinion that they should have to prove their identity to vote to help keep that from happening and to keep the system functioning correctly, and you assertation that by not turning them invalidates my right to want voter ID is another pathetic leao of logic akin to "of you dont vote you have no right to comment/have an opinion".

Its asinine.

I

how to you figure that fraudulently drawing disability income, selling ss cards and fraudulently voting is not directly harming ALL OF US

WTF man??

[Shockwave]

how to you figure that fraudulently drawing disability income, selling ss cards and fraudulently voting is not directly harming ALL OF US

WTF man??

Look man, if you want their name and address, YOU can turn them in.

I will NOT intervene in someones personal life if theyre not DIRECTLY (keyword, as in physically taking someones shit or violently assaulting someone).

I am not the law, and until they start to fuck with someone elses livelyhood i wont fuck with theirs just because i vehemently disagree with their life choices.

[Straw Man]

Look man, if you want their name and address, YOU can turn them in.

I will NOT intervene in someones personal life if theyre not DIRECTLY (keyword, as in physically taking someones shit or violently assaulting someone).

I am not the law, and until they start to fuck with someone elses livelyhood i wont fuck with theirs just because i vehemently disagree with their life choices.

I have no way of knowing if you're telling the truth or just completely full of shit

you're the person with first hand knowledge

If you want to post their name and address on this thread that is fine with me

[Dos Equis]

No, that was a poor example. If it was a hardship for a voter to get to the poll, they have the option of voting by absentee ballot. Why is there an option to do that? To make the process as accessible and easy for as many people possible!

So what happens when a poor person with no phone, internet, or car who lives in rural area miles from the polling station wants to vote via absentee ballot? 

[Dos Equis]

Virginia gives free ids but Texas doesn't....not to mention that most people would need to get a birth certificate to get a new ID...in Texas that's 42 dollars for a copy btw.  Elderly people who live on Social Security cannot afford that and people living paycheck to paycheck would rather buy food for their kids with the 52 dollars....lets not forget that they would miss a few hours or even a day of work getting all of these things.


You know good and well that the Republicans passed the law not because they care about "integrity in the voting booth" but to simply keep the poor and elderly who overwhelmingly do not vote Republican from voting at all.   Its a scumbag move and its why a number of judges are throwing them out.  Eventually Texas will endure the same fate.

Yes, Texas charges a whopping $6 to $16 for an ID, and people have had three years to get one. 

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/id-cards.php

[RRKore]

Yes, Texas charges a whopping $6 to $16 for an ID, and people have had three years to get one. 

http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/id-cards.php

Besides the ID card fee, aren't there fees for obtaining the documents needed to get an ID card?  (For the poor and/or elderly, it seems reasonable that many wouldn't have copies of the necessary documents, right?)

According to your link, here are the requirements (other than having $6- to $16-) for obtaining an ID card in Texas:

Apply for a Texas Identification Card

The Department of Public Safety (DPS) does NOT allow you to apply for an original Texas ID card online or by phone. You must apply in person at a local DPS office and submit:

    An Application For Texas Driver License or Identification Card (Form DL 14-A).
    Proof of identity. The DPS designates that you may bring either:
        1 document from the primary list (e.g. valid U.S. passport, U.S. military ID card, Texas driver’s license, U.S. Certificate of Citizenship or Certificate of Naturalization).
        2 documents from the secondary list (e.g. original or certified birth certificate, U.S. Department of State Certification of Birth Abroad, court order showing your name and date of birth).
        A combination of 1 document from the secondary list and 2 documents from the “supporting” list (e.g. Social Security card, Form W-2 or 1099, TX voter registration card).
            The DPS provides a list of acceptable documentation for each category.
    Proof of U.S. citizenship and lawful presence for non-residents (e.g. original or certified birth certificate, U.S. passport, permanent resident card).
        The DPS has a list of documents for non-residents to prove lawful status.
    Proof of Texas residency (2 documents - e.g. deed or mortgage, rental/lease agreement, TX voter registration card).
        One of these documents must show that you’ve lived in Texas for at least 30 days. Please see the state’s list of residency documents for details.
   

[Al Doggity]

So what happens when a poor person with no phone, internet, or car who lives in rural area miles from the polling station wants to vote via absentee ballot? 

Mail.

[Dos Equis]

Besides the ID card fee, aren't there fees for obtaining the documents needed to get an ID card?  (For the poor and/or elderly, it seems reasonable that many wouldn't have copies of the necessary documents, right?)

According to your link, here are the requirements (other than having $6- to $16-) for obtaining an ID card in Texas:

Apply for a Texas Identification Card

The Department of Public Safety (DPS) does NOT allow you to apply for an original Texas ID card online or by phone. You must apply in person at a local DPS office and submit:

    An Application For Texas Driver License or Identification Card (Form DL 14-A).
    Proof of identity. The DPS designates that you may bring either:
        1 document from the primary list (e.g. valid U.S. passport, U.S. military ID card, Texas driver’s license, U.S. Certificate of Citizenship or Certificate of Naturalization).
        2 documents from the secondary list (e.g. original or certified birth certificate, U.S. Department of State Certification of Birth Abroad, court order showing your name and date of birth).
        A combination of 1 document from the secondary list and 2 documents from the “supporting” list (e.g. Social Security card, Form W-2 or 1099, TX voter registration card).
            The DPS provides a list of acceptable documentation for each category.
    Proof of U.S. citizenship and lawful presence for non-residents (e.g. original or certified birth certificate, U.S. passport, permanent resident card).
        The DPS has a list of documents for non-residents to prove lawful status.
    Proof of Texas residency (2 documents - e.g. deed or mortgage, rental/lease agreement, TX voter registration card).
        One of these documents must show that you’ve lived in Texas for at least 30 days. Please see the state’s list of residency documents for details.
   

So?

[Dos Equis]

Mail.

Which requires them to travel to the nearest government office that has absentee ballot applications, which means they have to work harder than the person who drives a BMW and lives one mile from the polling station, or the person who has internet access and can order the forms online. 

[Tedim]

So what happens when a poor person with no phone, internet, or car who lives in rural area miles from the polling station wants to vote via absentee ballot? 

No one gives a fk for such a lazy stupid shit, walk, bike, crawl for all I care

[Al Doggity]

Which requires them to travel to the nearest government office that has absentee ballot applications, which means they have to work harder than the person who drives a BMW and lives one mile from the polling station, or the person who has internet access and can order the forms online. 

So, my position is that voting should be as easy and accessible to everyone who is eligible as possible.

Certain aspects of new voter ID laws make voting less accessible to many. There are realistic ways to make it more accessible to them. We have used them before and they have been effective in maintaining the integrity of elections.

Realistically, what policy not currently in place could  be instituted that would make it easier for the person you're describing to vote?

[Dos Equis]

So, my position is that voting should be as easy and accessible to everyone who is eligible as possible.

Certain aspects of new voter ID laws make voting less accessible to many. There are realistic ways to make it more accessible to them. We have used them before and they have been effective in maintaining the integrity of elections.

Realistically, what policy not currently in place could  be instituted that would make it easier for the person you're describing to vote?

Actually, the specific point we were addressing was whether it is harder for some people to vote than others.   

There are lots of policies we could adopt to make things easier, but that's not the government's role and I don't want to spend my tax dollars trying to help people who don't have the motivation to get off their butts and do what everyone does to take part in the voting process. 

That said, I don't have a problem with waiving fee requirements for people who have trouble paying for an ID or even providing transportation to the polls if the person is disabled or has financial difficulty getting to the polls.  But the ID requirement?  I'm sorry, it's just not a burdensome or unreasonable requirement. 

[Al Doggity]

Actually, the specific point we were addressing was whether it is harder for some people to vote than others.    

MY specific point was accessibility. Then you made a specious comparison to how  children from lower income families have it harder in school and farms. The point I was making was easy accessibility.

The question points to the fact that pretty much every policy possible is in place to make voting as easy and accessible for the person you described. Many of these voter ID laws have aspects that are deliberate hurdles for many. There really is nothing that can be done for the person in your example to make voting more accessible. That is how it should be. If it is common knowledge that a policy is going to effectively disenfranchise a sizable number of potential voters, then that policy needs to be rethought until it accommodates as many as possible.
 

There are lots of policies we could adopt to make things easier, but that's not the government's role and I don't want to spend my tax dollars trying to help people who don't have the motivation to get off their butts and do what everyone does to take part in the voting process.  

But this discussion is about new requirements. They aren't things that everyone does or has always done or have even done for very long. And it is the government's role to make voting as easy and accessible as possible.

[Dos Equis]

MY specific point was accessibility. Then you made a specious comparison to how  children from lower income families have it harder in school and farms. The point I was making was easy accessibility.

The question points to the fact that pretty much every policy possible is in place to make voting as easy and accessible for the person you described. Many of these voter ID laws have aspects that are deliberate hurdles for many. There really is nothing that can be done for the person in your example to make voting more accessible. That is how it should be. If it is common knowledge that a policy is going to effectively disenfranchise a sizable number of potential voters, then that policy needs to be rethought until it accommodates as many as possible.
 
[qoute]
There are lots of policies we could adopt to make things easier, but that's not the government's role and I don't want to spend my tax dollars trying to help people who don't have the motivation to get off their butts and do what everyone does to take part in the voting process. 

But this discussion is about new requirements. They aren't things that everyone does or has always done or have even done for very long. And it is the government's role to make voting as easy and accessible as possible.

Actually, your point was right here:

People shouldn't have to work harder to be able to vote.

I just showed you how that isn't reality. 

Requiring an ID isn't a "deliberate hurdle."  It's a reasonable requirement that applies to everyone.  Some states allow you to get them for free and in most every other state the cost is nominal.  And a person has years to come up with the $6 or $10, or so for an ID. 

The government has already made voting incredibly easy.  Even with the ID requirement it's incredibly easy.  And I don't even know what the ID law is in Hawaii, but every election I've voted in I've had to show an ID. 

[Straw Man]

Even the Supreme Court that overturned the initial ruling doesn't agree with that. The ruling acknowledged that requiring ID is  likely a discriminatory practice, but that wasn't the basis of the case. It was whether or not it's too close to the election to reverse course.

This a great point that needs to be repeated

[Al Doggity]

Actually, your point was right here:

I just showed you how that isn't reality. 

You made 3 or 4 posts with that BMW/ farm analogy. My post following the first one:

This example is silly. First of all, there's not one polling station.
There are several. Why are there several? To make it as easy as possible to give the most people access. To limit the amount of work people have to do to vote. It would be impossible to have a polling station the same distance from everyone's home. It is not impossible to hold an election without attempting to disenfranchise voters along economic lines.

As for your comparison between voting access and the hard knock lives of lower income children, does your volunteer work entail intentionally making their lives more difficult? If there was a  way to even the playing field so that the kids you work with were able to get the same results from the same amount of work, wouldn't that be the better option? That's not something possible to enforce insitutionally. But it is possible to create as level a playing field as possible for a basic right.

[Al Doggity]

My post immediately preceding the "people shouldn't have to work harder post:

Obviously, I meant this extra bullshit. I was just being glib in response to Shockwave's temper tantrum. For clarity's sake, I also think you should have to show up to the poll or at least vote by absentee ballot to have your vote counted. I don't think ballot officials should be expected to read your mind.

[Dos Equis]

Ok?  That doesn't change your point at all that some people shouldn't have to work harder than others to vote. 

[Al Doggity]

Ok?  That doesn't change your point at all that some people shouldn't have to work harder than others to vote. 

 

YOU:
Actually, the specific point we were addressing was whether it is harder for some people to vote than others.    

ME:
MY specific point was accessibility.


YOU:
Actually, your point was right this.
I just showed you how that isn't reality.

SEE MY TWO POSTS DIRECTLY PRECEDING THIS ONE. REPEAT AS MANY TIMES AS NECESSARY.

[Dos Equis]

YOU:
Actually, the specific point we were addressing was whether it is harder for some people to vote than others.    

ME:
MY specific point was accessibility.


YOU:
Actually, your point was right this.
I just showed you how that isn't reality.

SEE MY TWO POSTS DIRECTLY PRECEDING THIS ONE. REPEAT AS MANY TIMES AS NECESSARY.