Author Topic: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?  (Read 17354 times)

BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 12:13:34 PM »
That's not ultimate freedom - that's delusion, escapism, and just plain giving up.

We're all slaves to our humanity. You cannot transcend yourself. Enlightenment is already in you and around you - you just have find it.

I did not say one had to live like this sage did to realize oneself. I asked would you or anyone be ready to look like that to attain enlightenment.

you base this conviction apon what? many have transcended the limitations of body and mind.

The True Adonis

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 12:14:08 PM »
I did not say one had to live like this sage did to realize oneself. I asked would you or anyone be ready to look like that to attain enlightenment.

you base this conviction apon what? many have transcended the limitations of body and mind.
Oh really?  Prove it. 

Natural Man

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 12:15:20 PM »
oh reality is that what getbiggers are in touch with. What a laugh. Reality is beyond the senses and mind, discovered in deep meditation. Om Tat Sat.

How can you be so vain, insecure you need to inject steroids, lifts weights to impress others with your physique, while pretending to be some kind of moral superiority/authority to anyone at the same time. You re just another lost clown desperatly looking for attention, deal with it. You re also completely delusional, which might be enhanced by your drug use but you re too uneducated to even realize your feelings of euphoria come from the very same external hormones you put in your body hoping to be feared by others instead of fearing them.  


By the way there is no such thing as freedom (except if you re in jail). Did you choose to come to life? No. Do you choose your genes, education? No. Your only "freedom" is to blindly continue what  you ve been conditionned to be, to adapt to survive facing the competition of other life forms until you re able to reproduce with another life form as clueless as you.


Many things have been discovered about "freedom" since religions exist. How original you are to try and find some "deep inner peace and sense of self realization" into .... oriental religions and philosophies.. I guess christianism isnt trendy enough ?

You re an animal playing by the same rules everyone else does, grow up and stop pretending otherwise.

When you inject steroids to try to impress and dominate other males, that's what you re doing, being an animal trying to adapt to survive and dominate.




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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2014, 12:16:06 PM »

BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2014, 12:16:57 PM »
 
This is not a thread about me claiming to be a master.

Why don't you just answer the question?

The True Adonis

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 12:21:31 PM »

FermiDirac

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2014, 12:21:50 PM »
Ultimate freedom? As in having the body of a punctured marshmallow and being devoted to life of filth, meditation and for the most time sitting on a stinky mattress "contemplating the meaning of life"?

Wolfox

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2014, 12:26:01 PM »
I did not say one had to live like this sage did to realize oneself. I asked would you or anyone be ready to look like that to attain enlightenment.

you base this conviction apon what? many have transcended the limitations of body and mind.

No, they have only showed that these previously thought of limitations were false. They pushed the boundaries of what we thought could be and what is.

They didn't transcend themselves - they found themselves.
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Natural Man

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 12:27:31 PM »

This is not a thread about me claiming to be a master.

Why don't you just answer the question?
We answered the question moron, we are animals and we re all designed by nature to fight to death for ressources and mates until we can spread our genes. All of this is automatical, mechanical preprogrammed and we didnt choose shit. You should read way more books before trying to sound like a smart ass, which is exactly what you re attempting to do in all your posts.

No life form is free, freedom, real choice is to choose to end a life you didnt even choose to be spawned into.

As Camus said it, "there's only one philosophical question that matters; suicide."

You are so uneducated, clueless, immature and insecure it's not even funny. The steroid use is just the icing on the cake. I can't imagine how tough it will be for you to come off the drugs and their euphorical side effects. 


BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 12:28:37 PM »
No, they have only showed that these previously thought of limitations were false. They pushed the boundaries of what we thought could be and what is.

They didn't transcend themselves - they found themselves.

your playing with words here now.

BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 12:32:36 PM »
We answered the question moron, we are animals and we re all designed by nature to fight to death for ressources and mates until we can spread our genes. All of this is automatical, mechanical and we didnt choose shit. You should read way more books before trying to sound like a smart ass, which is exactly what you re attempting to do in all your posts.

No life form is free, freedom, real choice is to choose to end a life you didnt even choose to be spawned into.

As camus said it, "there's only one philosophical question that matters; suicide."

You are so uneducated, clueless, immature and insecure it's not even funny. The steroid use is just the icing on the cake.



I was in to deep meditation long before steroid use came in to the picture and enjoyed the immense peace it gave me.

I really don't know why I am even acknowledging your neo nazi anti god disgusting self.

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 12:33:41 PM »
Mans ultimate conundrum is that his ego makes him believe there is something more to life than this simple birth/life/death sequence.
Unfortunately he doesn't have the mental capacity to work out what that is.

Shockwave

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 12:34:04 PM »
I would trade my life for a free country for my son.
Agreed.

Wolfox

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 12:35:21 PM »
your playing with words here now.

Semantics matter.

Especially in logic and philosophy.

Can't argue with words without meaning.

Its like a questionable foundation. Can't build on it.

A

The True Adonis

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2014, 12:36:58 PM »
Mans ultimate conundrum is that his ego makes him believe there is something more to life than this simple birth/life/death sequence.
Unfortunately he doesn't have the mental capacity to work out what that is.

Wolfox

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2014, 12:38:41 PM »
he was immersed in the bliss and freedom of the Self from a young age. Your the one who is deluded.

Here in Los Angeles we call his enlightened brothers and sisters, 'homeless'.

A

Natural Man

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2014, 12:40:34 PM »
Mans ultimate conundrum is that his ego makes him believe there is something more to life than this simple birth/life/death sequence.
Unfortunately he doesn't have the mental capacity to work out what that is.
Has nothing to do with mental capacity or incapacity to figure something "hidden", it's more about the fact there's simply nothing else to understand other than we re an animal specie among others that is destined to disapear because one day it won't be able to adapt anymore. Scientists came to the conclusion we re probably never ever going to be able to leave earth cause we re simply not adapted to do so which leaves us with the conclusion that we re just going to kill each others indefinitely and randomly for ressources until they re dry or that one day the sun explodes and annihilate  the solar system , earth included at the same time. We ll probably eradicate ourselves or be wiped by some random natural cataclysm before we even get there anyway.


Oh well... There we go again. I doubt Big Childish Pussy is going to read this tho. It's easier to feel content in some random drug induced bullshit pseudo philosophical/spiritual system of belief for some people than facing the truth.


The human condition

Zapffe views the human condition as tragically overdeveloped, calling it "a biological paradox, an abomination, an absurdity, an exaggeration of disastrous nature."[1] Zapffe viewed the world as beyond humanity's need for meaning, unable to provide any of the answers to the fundamental existential questions.

    The tragedy of a species becoming unfit for life by over-evolving one ability is not confined to humankind. Thus it is thought, for instance, that certain deer in paleontological times succumbed as they acquired overly-heavy horns. The mutations must be considered blind, they work, are thrown forth, without any contact of interest with their environment.

    In depressive states, the mind may be seen in the image of such an antler, in all its fantastic splendour pinning its bearer to the ground.

    — Peter Wessel Zapffe, The Last Messiah[1]

Throughout the essay, Zapffe alludes to Nietzsche, "the poster case, as it were, of seeing too much for sanity."[2]

After placing the source of anguish in human intellect, Zapffe then sought as to why humanity simply didn't just perish. He concluded humanity "performs, to extend a settled phrase, a more or less self-conscious repression of its damaging surplus of consciousness" and that this was "a requirement of social adaptability and of everything commonly referred to as healthy and normal living."[1] He provided four defined mechanisms of defense that allowed an individual to overcome their burden of intellect.
Remedies against panic

    Isolation is the first method Zapffe noted, who defined it as "a fully arbitrary dismissal from consciousness of all disturbing and destructive thought and feeling" and cites "One should not think, it is just confusing" as an example.[1]

    Anchoring, according to Zapffe, is the "fixation of points within, or construction of walls around, the liquid fray of consciousness". The anchoring mechanism provides individuals a value or an ideal that allows them to focus their attentions in a consistent manner. Zapffe compared this mechanism to Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen's concept of the life-lie from the play The Wild Duck, where the family has achieved a tolerable modus vivendi by ignoring the skeletons and by permitting each member to live in a dreamworld of his own. Zapffe also applied the anchoring principle to society, and stated "God, the Church, the State, morality, fate, the laws of life, the people, the future" are all examples of collective primary anchoring firmaments. He noted flaws in the principle's ability to properly address the human condition, and warned against the despair provoked resulting from discovering one's anchoring mechanism was false. Another shortcoming of anchoring is conflict between contradicting anchoring mechanisms, which Zapffe posits will bring one to destructive nihilism.[1]

    Distraction is when "one limits attention to the critical bounds by constantly enthralling it with impressions."[1] Distraction focuses all of one's energy on a task or idea to prevent the mind from turning in on itself.

    Sublimation is the refocusing of energy away from negative outlets, toward positive ones.

    Through stylistic or artistic gifts can the very pain of living at times be converted into valuable experiences. Positive impulses engage the evil and put it to their own ends, fastening onto its pictorial, dramatic, heroic, lyric or even comic aspects.... To write a tragedy, one must to some extent free oneself from- betray- the very feeling of tragedy and regard it from an outer, e.g. aesthetic, point of view. Here is, by the way, an opportunity for the wildest round-dancing through ever higher ironic levels, into a most embarrassing circulus vitiosus. Here one can chase one's ego across numerous habitats, enjoying the capacity of the various layers of consciousness to dispel one another.

    The present essay is a typical attempt at sublimation. The author does not suffer, he is filling pages and is going to be published in a journal.

    — Peter Wessel Zapffe, The Last Messiah[1]

The last messiah

Zapffe concluded that "As long as humankind recklessly proceeds in the fateful delusion of being biologically fated for triumph, nothing essential will change." Mankind will get increasingly desperate until 'the last messiah' arrives, "the man who, as the first of all, has dared strip his soul naked and submit it alive to the outmost thought of the lineage, the very idea of doom. A man who has fathomed life and its cosmic ground, and whose pain is the Earth's collective pain."[1] Zapffe compares his messiah to Moses, but ultimately rejects the precept to “be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,” by saying “Know yourselves – be infertile, and let the earth be silent after ye.”[2]

Zapffe's theory is that humans are born with an overdeveloped skill (understanding, self-knowledge) which does not fit into nature's design. The human craving for justification on matters such as life and death cannot be satisfied—an idea closely related to that popularly established by Albert Camus and absurdist philosophy—hence humanity has a need that nature cannot satisfy. The tragedy, following this theory, is that humans spend all their time trying not to be human. The human being, therefore, is a paradox.
In The Last Messiah Zapffe described four principal defense mechanisms that humankind uses to avoid facing this paradox:

    Isolation is "a fully arbitrary dismissal from consciousness of all disturbing and destructive thought and feeling".[2]
    Anchoring is the "fixation of points within, or construction of walls around, the liquid fray of consciousness".[2] The anchoring mechanism provides individuals a value or an ideal that allows them to focus their attentions in a consistent manner. Zapffe also applied the anchoring principle to society, and stated "God, the Church, the State, morality, fate, the laws of life, the people, the future"[2] are all examples of collective primary anchoring firmaments.
    Distraction is when "one limits attention to the critical bounds by constantly enthralling it with impressions".[2] Distraction focuses all of one's energy on a task or idea to prevent the mind from turning in on itself.
    Sublimation is the refocusing of energy away from negative outlets, toward positive ones. The individuals distance themselves and look at their existence from an aesthetic point of view (e.g., writers, poets, painters). Zapffe himself pointed out that his produced works were the product of sublimation.

Zapffe was a prolific mountaineer and took a very early interest in environmentalism. This form of nature conservationism sprung from the intent, not of protecting nature, but to avoid human culturalization of nature. He is the author of many humorous short stories about climbing and other adventures in nature.

Zapffe married twice. He remained married to his second wife Berit Zapffe until his death in 1990. Berit herself died in May 2008. Zapffe believed that having children should be problematised and remained childless by choice.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life

The elusiveness of hapiness
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/359/1449/1333.full.pdf

BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 12:41:07 PM »
Semantics matter.

Especially in logic and philosophy.

Can't argue with words without meaning.

Its like a questionable foundation. Can't build on it.



they matter in mental philosophy but that does not bring one to liberation.

FermiDirac

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2014, 12:41:21 PM »
Every person on Earth could vanish over night, and the universe wouldn't even notice. That's the profound and sad truth, nothing we do matters in the big pictor. We are just reconstituted carbon molecules, no more no less.


D.O.A.

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2014, 12:42:20 PM »
ultimate freedom would be great. People that get there are very fortunate.
But unless you experience it and get there you never know what its like.

We have a saying =Suicide is the ultimate freedom.

heenok

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2014, 12:43:56 PM »
big ro

define freedom. is it like the budhist, "get rid of all desire so you dont suffer"
sounds like being braindead to me...

but yeah i would trade my little gains for ultimate peace and freedom of mind
bodybuilding is nothing but a pipe dream

SF1900

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2014, 12:44:49 PM »
Mans ultimate conundrum is that his ego makes him believe there is something more to life than this simple birth/life/death sequence.
Unfortunately he doesn't have the mental capacity to work out what that is.

and even if he tries, he ultimately falls short
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BigRo

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2014, 12:44:56 PM »
The verdict is in, getbiggers would not look like that even if it meant the abolishment of their mental suffering and living in the beatitude of the Self.

Kwon_2

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2014, 12:45:30 PM »
If you have Ultimate Freedom you don't even need Tea, which is apparent that the ole bloke in the pic still needs.

SF1900

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Re: Would you trade your gains for ultimate freedom?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2014, 12:45:53 PM »
All this bullshit about people finding themselves, having the right answer, finding the truth, is a bunch of bullshit. This guy is no more enlightened than the beggar on the street corner.

Two good quotes:

"Respect Those Who Seek the Truth, Be Wary of Those Who Claim to have Found It."

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.
X