Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.

[Ron Harrigan]

Yet the same word is used to describe Jesus, who is clearly more than unblemished. Sounds like semantics.

Again. The same word means several things. Perhaps 'sinless' would be a more fitting term in this context.

[Donny]

Yet the same word is used to describe Jesus, who is clearly more than unblemished. Sounds like semantics.

You should have been drowned at birth.

[The Ugly]

You should have been drowned at birth.

Wow, all this over a smiley?

[Donny]

Don´t spell my name Donnie. Only one Person had the right to spell it that way.

[The Ugly]

Don´t spell my name Donnie. Only one Person had the right to spell it that way.

Honestly, Don. Is it me, the movie, or your name that troubles you most?

[AbrahamG]

Imagine if Pope Frank lifts the ban on celibacy how much pussy will be knocking on his doorstep.

[King Shizzo]

This is exactly the type of thread I am talking about MOS.

If they move threads that have, say 100( ) replies into the proper subforum, all of the posters who made a post in that thread
Will automatically be aware of new posts through the updated topics tab.

They will be more likely to continue discussions this way.  Just look at how many threads have gone nowhere here.

[Man of Steel]

This is exactly the type of thread I am talking about MOS.

If they move threads that have, say 100( ) replies into the proper subforum, all of the posters who made a post in that thread
Will automatically be aware of new posts through the updated topics tab.

They will be more likely to continue discussions this way.  Just look at how many threads have gone nowhere here.

I think most folks on these boards that object to religion only want to "hit and run" because without similar objectors high-fiving them after mocking posts are made all they have left to do is actually discuss.   And when answers to their objections start coming their way they often bail out......quickly.

If folks were genuinely passionate about their objections they'd seek discussion, but I don't believe that's the case for the vast majority.

[Necrosis]

I think most folks on these boards that object to religion only want to "hit and run" because without similar objectors high-fiving them after mocking posts are made all they have left to do is actually discuss.   And when answers to their objections start coming their way they often bail out......quickly.

If folks were genuinely passionate about their objections they'd seek discussion, but I don't believe that's the case for the vast majority.

It;s probably because your answers include supernatural non-sense and other equally irrational things. How can anyone argue with someone not bound by logic, facts and reason?

Like God killed everyone in a flood, even the plants, he knew of the events before they happened yet choose that route. It makes no sense, if something makes no sense it can be discarded, no need for debate.


Like you discard the beliefs of Hindu's, is the earth held up by four different colour palm trees? is it turtles all the way down? it's absurd, equally as much as your myth, neither are subject to discussion because they are non-sensical.

[Man of Steel]

It;s probably because your answers include supernatural non-sense and other equally irrational things. How can anyone argue with someone not bound by logic, facts and reason?

Like God killed everyone in a flood, even the plants, he knew of the events before they happened yet choose that route. It makes no sense, if something makes no sense it can be discarded, no need for debate.


Like you discard the beliefs of Hindu's, is the earth held up by four different colour palm trees? is it turtles all the way down? it's absurd, equally as much as your myth, neither are subject to discussion because they are non-sensical.

You challenge the bible, but often do so only from your worldview.  You refuse to allow God's divine nature to be what it is.  If the providence of God is removed then you've essentially created something new that allows your arguments to hold, but it's not scripture.  Although, atheists love to step in and out of the Christian worldview as they see fit....the taxi cab fallacy I believe it's called.  

Always the flood, but always from a perspective of naturalism when the entire event was governed by God's divine providence.  Of course all of the events of the flood don't work from a purely naturalistic perspective because your argument necessitates that God can't be God.  God must only be or not be what suits your worldview and you refuse to entertain otherwise.  Although it's not my problem and it's an invention of your mind that does not represent scripture.      

You call it illogic when in fact logic itself is transcendent and exists with or without the natural world and your mind (folks get this concept backwards).....the transcendent nature of logic is consistent with the infinite, transcendent nature of God and is grounded in him.  In fact the moment you engage logic you've entered the Christian worldview (and exited atheism) and are thereby bound by it's axioms.  

  

[Necrosis]

You challenge the bible, but often do so only from your worldview.  You refuse to allow God's divine nature to be what it is.  If the providence of God is removed then you've essentially created something new that allows your arguments to hold, but it's not scripture.  Although, atheists love to step in and out of the Christian worldview as they see fit....the taxi cab fallacy I believe it's called.  



  

What is my own worldview? how do you know I refuse to allow God's divine nature blah blah... you are making all these assumptions as if you are correct, that's the issue.

Always the flood, but always from a perspective of naturalism when the entire event was governed by God's divine providence.  Of course all of the events of the flood don't work from a purely naturalistic perspective because your argument necessitates that God can't be God.  God must only be or not be what suits your worldview and you refuse to entertain otherwise.  Although it's not my problem and it's an invention of your mind that does not represent scripture.       

You call it illogic when in fact logic itself is transcendent and exists with or without the natural world and your mind (folks get this concept backwards).....the transcendent nature of logic is consistent with the infinite, transcendent nature of God and is grounded in him.  In fact the moment you engage logic you've entered the Christian worldview (and exited atheism) and are thereby bound by it's axioms. 

 

The pure irony in the first post is mindblowing. My worldview is called "reality", never ever have the laws of physics been violated, predictions of the past and future are couched in the belief of a rational universe (it works). If God is up there picking and choosing when to intervene his plan or rules are poor which doesn't make any sense in light of his attributes.

So you clearly see the absurdity of a literal noah's ark, but you still actually believed it existed? but instead god divinely feed the animals etc... is that your position?

I am not sure you understand what logic is, it's the study and use of valid reasoning generally. So if reason is grounded in the almighty my friend, why does everything you say make no sense at all?

I can reason, if this is his creation, if that book is his best work etc.. then he is a moron. Which is it? faith of reason? you can't have both because it makes no fucking sense.

If actual life if an employee came up to you and said he broke something due to devil spirits forcing him too, what would you say? you would use reason to determine if he is telling the truth. God is unreasonable throughout the bible, I have a hard time buying he is all that smart, reminds me of sheep herders.

[Agnostic007]

It;s probably because your answers include supernatural non-sense and other equally irrational things. How can anyone argue with someone not bound by logic, facts and reason?

Like God killed everyone in a flood, even the plants, he knew of the events before they happened yet choose that route. It makes no sense, if something makes no sense it can be discarded, no need for debate.


Like you discard the beliefs of Hindu's, is the earth held up by four different colour palm trees? is it turtles all the way down? it's absurd, equally as much as your myth, neither are subject to discussion because they are non-sensical.

good point.. when you can introduce magic into a debate as part of your evidence, it becomes pretty pointless to continue the debate. 

[Man of Steel]

good point.. when you can introduce magic into a debate as part of your evidence, it becomes pretty pointless to continue the debate.  

Once you remove God from the equation you've stepped outside the Christian worldview and you've invented a different worldview from which to argue from.

Call God "magic" if you want, but the reality is he's trascendent, infinite and supernatural.....this can't be force fit into naturalism so the debate is typically either thrown out or mocked.....solves absolutely nothing.

Evidence must be followed to where it leads; although, it seems the only evidence allowed is that of naturalism and that won't get the job done for God....sorry, but it won't.  You must consider the transcendent nature of logic and special revelation of God to his body of believers (most apologists disagree with this approach....I don't care).  Special revelation achieved by proactively seeking God according to his terms established in scripture is a great way to go.  You can begin with the testimony of believers as a baseline (which is an enormous body of evidence), but refuse to follow (or accept) that evidence and it provides no value because it isn't utilized....it's justified away.  Demand reproduction of God in a lab and you'll always fall short......natural can't bottle the supernatural.  God must be allowed to be God.

[Man of Steel]

What is my own worldview? how do you know I refuse to allow God's divine nature blah blah... you are making all these assumptions as if you are correct, that's the issue.

Fine, do you allow God to be God in your worldview?  Do you accept that he's transcendent, supernatural and infinite?

The pure irony in the first post is mindblowing. My worldview is called "reality", never ever have the laws of physics been violated, predictions of the past and future are couched in the belief of a rational universe (it works). If God is up there picking and choosing when to intervene his plan or rules are poor which doesn't make any sense in light of his attributes.

Reality is subjective.  I've experienced the risen God in my life....the divine nature of God comports with my reality.   Does it with yours?  

So you clearly see the absurdity of a literal noah's ark, but you still actually believed it existed? but instead god divinely feed the animals etc... is that your position?

I am not sure you understand what logic is, it's the study and use of valid reasoning generally. So if reason is grounded in the almighty my friend, why does everything you say make no sense at all?

I can understand it seems absurd from a perspective that denies God or doesn't allow God to be God.....I don't have your problem because I know God.

I can reason, if this is his creation, if that book is his best work etc.. then he is a moron. Which is it? faith of reason? you can't have both because it makes no fucking sense.

Why is God a moron?  You've only presented a blanket statement here.  

What is faith?  What is reason?  What doesn't make sense?  Need context here.  Examples are helpful.

If actual life if an employee came up to you and said he broke something due to devil spirits forcing him too, what would you say? you would use reason to determine if he is telling the truth. God is unreasonable throughout the bible, I have a hard time buying he is all that smart, reminds me of sheep herders.

Yes, I would use reason, my experience, my worldview and presuppositions...I'd assume you'd do the same.   Just because someone presents something seemingly impossible doesn't make it impossible.

Why is God unreasonable throughout the bible?  Need context here. Examples are helpful.

[tbombz]

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

In other news, the Museum of Arts was blasted today by critics who were outraged that the Museum said that their artworks were actually "made" by somebody.  The critics, a group called "WARI" (we are really intelligent), have said that there is absolutely no evidence that any of the artworks had a maker.

[Necrosis]

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

In other news, the Museum of Arts was blasted today by critics who were outraged that the Museum said that their artworks were actually "made" by somebody.  The critics, a group called "WARI" (we are really intelligent), have said that there is absolutely no evidence that any of the artworks had a maker.

No point in arguing with you MOS, you seem to think reality is subjective which is laughable. I am sure a schizo's reality is much different then yours, who is right?


No evidence that the artworks had a maker? they are pieces of art, wtf..... this shit is so fucking stupid, grow up people, it's a scary world there isn't someone watching out for you.

The hilarious thing is you can tell this is a piece of art and not a sand dune because of it's qualities, by extension the dune was not created, otherwise how could you tell.

[Man of Steel]

No point in arguing with you MOS, you seem to think reality is subjective which is laughable. I am sure a schizo's reality is much different then yours, who is right?


No evidence that the artworks had a maker? they are pieces of art, wtf..... this shit is so fucking stupid, grow up people, it's a scary world there isn't someone watching out for you.

The hilarious thing is you can tell this is a piece of art and not a sand dune because of it's qualities, by extension the dune was not created, otherwise how could you tell.

I like how you respond to tbombz, but address me indirectly and don't answer my questions....as if they're "too ridiculous to even entertain" LOL!

I could be a lot harsher here, but I won't....it's just typical atheist thinking in that atheism somehow corners the market on asking reasonable questions.

That's ok, maybe you think about them and maybe get back to me.

[tbombz]

Man of Steel...   its obvious that the sand art had a creator, because it has "qualities" that demand one
... but the human brain, that one the other hand, well there are no qualities about it which demand a creator.

how great the sand art in comparison to the human brain!

 

No evidence that the artworks had a maker? they are pieces of art, wtf..... this shit is so fucking stupid, grow up people, it's a scary world there isn't someone watching out for you.

The hilarious thing is you can tell this is a piece of art and not a sand dune because of it's qualities, by extension the dune was not created, otherwise how could you tell.

[tbombz]

Let Everything Praise the Lord

   Praise the LORD!
   Praise God in his sanctuary;
      praise him in his mighty heavens!
   Praise him for his mighty deeds;
      praise him according to his excellent greatness!
   
   Praise him with trumpet sound;
      praise him with lute and harp!
   Praise him with tambourine and dance;
      praise him with strings and pipe!
   Praise him with sounding cymbals;
      praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
   Let everything that has breath praise the LORD!

   Praise the LORD!

Psalms 150

[Necrosis]

I like how you respond to tbombz, but address me indirectly and don't answer my questions....as if they're "too ridiculous to even entertain" LOL!

I could be a lot harsher here, but I won't....it's just typical atheist thinking in that atheism somehow corners the market on asking reasonable questions.

That's ok, maybe you think about them and maybe get back to me.

They are too ridiculous. Your argument is basically god is supernatural etc etc.. you say you are using reason.

There is nothing to think about at all, it's the same old tired non-sense. God is all powerful, he is eternal so needs no beginning blah blah. Meanwhile the very terms you are using negate what you say,you just don't understand them. So in order to explain complexity you evoke a hyper complex being, one infinitely more complex then the universe and you see nothing wrong with this? if the complexity of the universe demands an explanation and we take your argument to it's logical conclusion, then god requires a explanation doubly.

The flood is example of god being unreasonable, particularly if he knows the future. This also negates free will, you don't know what you will do but he does, it's pre-ordained.

How can we have an argument if you aren't even in the ballpark? you purport to be using logic, I see nothing but special arguments, none of which can even be scrutinized. How could I argue against supernatural things? there name alone indicates we cannot.

[Necrosis]

Man of Steel...   its obvious that the sand art had a creator, because it has "qualities" that demand one
... but the human brain, that one the other hand, well there are no qualities about it which demand a creator.

how great the sand art in comparison to the human brain!

 

That's my point, the fact that we can both tell the art was created is because the fucking surrounding sand is not, do you understand what I am saying? If you come across a watch on the beach you are going to assume it was created, by logical extension the beach was not. If all is created by god, it would all have properties of being "created". Can you tell a rock apart from a watch, is one created? if both are they should share the same properties of created things.

The art also has a maker you can meet, you can see how it is made, where it is made etc. this is another attribute of created things.

This is also another key point, if this is his creation we should be able to determine things about the creator. Like if the watch was rolex we know it's expensive, expensive materials, took time to create, appearance is key etc.. so god created brain eating parasites that kill kids brutally for trying to drink some water, sounds like a moron to me.  This is the point, the creation blows, The sun will kill us all eventually, some creation. Imagine building a watch with a timebomb in it, makes sense but carry on, you guys are reasonable.

[Man of Steel]

That's my point, the fact that we can both tell the art was created is because the fucking surrounding sand is not, do you understand what I am saying? If you come across a watch on the beach you are going to assume it was created, by logical extension the beach was not. If all is created by god, it would all have properties of being "created". Can you tell a rock apart from a watch, is one created? if both are they should share the same properties of created things.

The art also has a maker you can meet, you can see how it is made, where it is made etc. this is another attribute of created things.

This is also another key point, if this is his creation we should be able to determine things about the creator. Like if the watch was rolex we know it's expensive, expensive materials, took time to create, appearance is key etc.. so god created brain eating parasites that kill kids brutally for trying to drink some water, sounds like a moron to me.  This is the point, the creation blows, The sun will kill us all eventually, some creation. Imagine building a watch with a timebomb in it, makes sense but carry on, you guys are reasonable.

I've spent the last several years pleading with folks and letting them know that they can "meet the maker" in this life......I desperately desire for others to understand this!!  Come unto him now.....you don't want to meet him for the first time during his judgement.

It is our sin that introduced death, decay and disease upon the world.

Your curiosities about "why God did this" or "why God did that" don't negate or cancel anything....they're just curiosities and nothing more.  See you again step in and out of worldviews.  You implant the naturalistic worldview of an exploding sun into the Christian worldview and call that a "bad creation".   I'm not suggesting stars don't explode....they certainly do....we've witnessed it.  Although, an exploding star won't be our end.....neither scripture nor science adhere to that view.

Actually according to cosmology the expansion of the universe will kill us via way of dark, cold death (Lawrence Krauss affirms this).  Given that scientists view the human species as a cancer of sorts upon this planet, mother earth will eventually eliminate us on her own.   The sun could go supernova one day, but according to science we'd be gone already.  

Romans 1:20
20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

[Necrosis]

Fine, do you allow God to be God in your worldview?  Do you accept that he's transcendent, supernatural and infinite?

No, how can he be infinite, that means he would be the universe also, that is without bounds. You don't understand the words you are using.

Reality is subjective.  I've experienced the risen God in my life....the divine nature of God comports with my reality.   Does it with yours?  

Absolutely not, reality is objective, ever hear of delusion or hallucinations? I cannot see them, hence it's not subjective. It must be nice living in a world where logic and common sense take a back seat. Truth is truth, it's the same for everyone otherwise you cannot determine if it is true. If you think gravity doesn't effect you jump off a building, I bet reality will smack that nonsense right out your mouth.

I can understand it seems absurd from a perspective that denies God or doesn't allow God to be God.....I don't have your problem because I know God.

You don't know god, because I don't, you are a human, you do not have special information etc. You are just another human who is clinging to the god hypothesis.

Why is God a moron?  You've only presented a blanket statement here.  

The flood. Why not just snap his fingers and make them disappear, no, let's drown everyone, every plant etc it's stupid. Applying logic to it as you seem to think you are doing indicates it's moronic.

What is faith?  What is reason?  What doesn't make sense?  Need context here.  Examples are helpful.

definitions for these things exist

Yes, I would use reason, my experience, my worldview and presuppositions...I'd assume you'd do the same.   Just because someone presents something seemingly impossible doesn't make it impossible.

you are not using your reason, as you are continuously asking for it to be suspended.

Why is God unreasonable throughout the bible?  Need context here. Examples are helpful.

[Necrosis]

I've spent the last several years pleading with folks and letting them know that they can "meet the maker" in this life......I desperately desire for others to understand this!!  Come unto him now.....you don't want to meet him for the first time during his judgement.

Two way street, he should know how to reveal himself to me if he so covets. I don't particularly like the guy if this is his idea of a creation.

It is our sin that introduced death, decay and disease upon the world.

So before us animals never suffered or decayed? fossils contradict you. If there was a world with no sin, then god is responsible for the sin, why even have it as a possibility, he controls the parameters does he not? He would have put the apple there, would have required incest to populate the earth, again god resembles a stupid sheep herder, I wonder why? (jesus this is absurd). I will stop there.

Your curiosities about "why God did this" or "why God did that" don't negate or cancel anything....they're just curiosities and nothing more.  See you again step in and out of worldviews.  You implant the naturalistic worldview of an exploding sun into the Christian worldview and call that a "bad creation".   I'm not suggesting stars don't explode....they certainly do....we've witnessed it.  Although, an exploding star won't be our end.....neither scripture nor science adhere to that view.

Actually according to cosmology the expansion of the universe will kill us via way of dark, cold death (Lawrence Krauss affirms this).  Given that scientists view the human species as a cancer of sorts upon this planet, mother earth will eventually eliminate us on her own.   The sun could go supernova one day, but according to science we'd be gone already.  

According to science? Krauss is correct, however, the sun will supernova before this. Who would say mother earth will eliminate us, as if it's a conscious decision. Regardless the point is we are in a death trap, the whole universe is.

Romans 1:20
20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Again not the same thing, I can go to his shop, see where he made it, talk to him, others can verify him etc. You are basically saying there is an immaterial thing creating the material, it makes no sense.

[Necrosis]

I've spent the last several years pleading with folks and letting them know that they can "meet the maker" in this life......I desperately desire for others to understand this!!  Come unto him now.....you don't want to meet him for the first time during his judgement.

It is our sin that introduced death, decay and disease upon the world.

Your curiosities about "why God did this" or "why God did that" don't negate or cancel anything....they're just curiosities and nothing more.  See you again step in and out of worldviews.  You implant the naturalistic worldview of an exploding sun into the Christian worldview and call that a "bad creation".   I'm not suggesting stars don't explode....they certainly do....we've witnessed it.  Although, an exploding star won't be our end.....neither scripture nor science adhere to that view.

Actually according to cosmology the expansion of the universe will kill us via way of dark, cold death (Lawrence Krauss affirms this).  Given that scientists view the human species as a cancer of sorts upon this planet, mother earth will eventually eliminate us on her own.   The sun could go supernova one day, but according to science we'd be gone already.  

Romans 1:20
20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.