Author Topic: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.  (Read 119510 times)

SF1900

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #275 on: November 13, 2014, 12:22:54 PM »
For me, the actual existence of a Creator is less important than what he does after he created the universe.

Thus, even if the universe was started by a Creator, there is still no evidence that:

1) we need to worship Him
2) that he answers prayers
3) that he sends people to heaven or hell, depending on whether or not they masturbate or have sex before marriage
4) that he is constantly interfering with the affairs of mankind, i.e., helps the giants win a football game when the players pray, but sits idly by while children are raped and tortured.

So even if I granted you the proposition that a Creator exists, you would still need to prove the other 4 points (and MANY MANY more).

Great, a Creator created the universe, now what?
X

Natural Man

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #276 on: November 13, 2014, 01:39:43 PM »
visit the geriatric department of any hospital or mental asylum and you ll quickly understand god doesnt exist.

Ron Harrigan

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #277 on: November 13, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »
visit the geriatric department of any hospital or mental asylum and you ll quickly understand god doesnt exist.

The inmates there say the exact same thing. For real.

Ron Harrigan

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #278 on: November 13, 2014, 05:20:34 PM »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :-X

Facts are dreadfully inconvenient, aren't they?

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #279 on: November 14, 2014, 08:19:11 AM »
Facts are dreadfully inconvenient, aren't they?

Yes facts from a christian website, not biased at all. you love that lou pasteur thing, but no one in the right mind supports that notion, nor has it been relevant for a long long time. Abiogenesis is not evolution, thus the pasteur argument, albeit retarded, misses the mark for other reasons.

I find it funny that you get your science from a christian website, really digging deep there buddy.

your posts are laughably stupid. The whole god is eternal argument is absurd, using temporal language to describe the absence of time as if it is an argument.

You are super stupid, super stupid.

dr.chimps

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #280 on: November 14, 2014, 12:39:37 PM »
For me, the actual existence of a Creator is less important than what he does after he created the universe.

Thus, even if the universe was started by a Creator, there is still no evidence that:

1) we need to worship Him
2) that he answers prayers
3) that he sends people to heaven or hell, depending on whether or not they masturbate or have sex before marriage
4) that he is constantly interfering with the affairs of mankind, i.e., helps the giants win a football game when the players pray, but sits idly by while children are raped and tortured.

So even if I granted you the proposition that a Creator exists, you would still need to prove the other 4 points (and MANY MANY more).

Great, a Creator created the universe, now what?
Absentee landlord?

SF1900

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #281 on: November 14, 2014, 09:09:36 PM »
Absentee landlord?

Bingo. I think an even more important question to ask is, if a Creator did create the universe, what is his role in human affairs. If we could figure that out (hypothetically speaking), the implications would be tremendous.

X

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #282 on: November 14, 2014, 09:16:49 PM »
Bingo. I think an even more important question to ask is, if a Creator did create the universe, what is his role in human affairs. If we could figure that out (hypothetically speaking), the implications would be tremendous.



Zero.


SF1900

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #283 on: November 14, 2014, 09:20:10 PM »
Zero.



I agree it is zero.

But if by some chance we are wrong, because we could be wrong (as any atheist would tell you), I'd want to know what His role is in human affairs. And id want to know why he cares about sport teams winning while he lets children get tortured and killed.  :-\ :-\ You always see those sport players huddling around and praying for a victory.
X

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #284 on: November 15, 2014, 03:56:05 AM »
I agree it is zero.

But if by some chance we are wrong, because we could be wrong (as any atheist would tell you), I'd want to know what His role is in human affairs. And id want to know why he cares about sport teams winning while he lets children get tortured and killed.  :-\ :-\ You always see those sport players huddling around and praying for a victory.

Well, both teams usually pray and only one wins, so I can see Him not being bothered by such trivial matters and ignoring those altogether. Never understand the other one, though.

Cancer kid recovers, miracle. Dies = God's will, bigger plan, mysterious ways, or disingenuous praying.

Win/win.

SF1900

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #285 on: November 15, 2014, 08:21:07 AM »
Well, both teams usually pray and only one wins, so I can see Him not being bothered by such trivial matters and ignoring those altogether. Never understand the other one, though.

Cancer kid recovers, miracle. Dies = God's will, bigger plan, mysterious ways, or disingenuous praying.

Win/win.

Yes, religious people always hide between, "It was Gods will", when backed into a corner they cannot get out of. Its a very easy way to dismiss the conundrum of an an all-powerful, all-loving God.
X

Natural Man

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #286 on: November 16, 2014, 08:38:55 AM »
fact is the white race will disapear first, then all others. It will take time, but it will happen, our specie is condemned, we are designed by the absurd, to fail.

Interesting to read , the end of nietszche who prophetized that after killing god, we would all kill ourselves. Basically after abandoning christianism, humans are  led to beleive in atheism and nihilism, or they can embrace other religions like buddhism, islam.

http://blogs.walkerart.org/filmvideo/2012/03/16/the-madness-letters-friedrich-nietzsche-and-bela-tarr/

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_%28book%29

The True Adonis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #287 on: November 17, 2014, 10:22:51 AM »
fact is the white race will disapear first, then all others. It will take time, but it will happen, our specie is condemned, we are designed by the absurd, to fail.

Interesting to read , the end of nietszche who prophetized that after killing god, we would all kill ourselves. Basically after abandoning christianism, humans are  led to beleive in atheism and nihilism, or they can embrace other religions like buddhism, islam.

http://blogs.walkerart.org/filmvideo/2012/03/16/the-madness-letters-friedrich-nietzsche-and-bela-tarr/

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_%28book%29
Nietzsche was a moron with syphilis who was kicked by a horse.

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #288 on: November 17, 2014, 10:50:07 AM »
We know, from science, that the universe had a beginning.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=3572&topic=56

No we don;t there are multiple theories, one being a multiverse that is eternal and infinite, you are talking out of your ass again. We have defined a singularity which doesn't exist in reality due to us not having the math to describe it, is this the beginning? no one knows.

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #289 on: November 17, 2014, 12:06:59 PM »
Yes facts from a christian website, not biased at all. you love that lou pasteur thing, but no one in the right mind supports that notion, nor has it been relevant for a long long time. Abiogenesis is not evolution, thus the pasteur argument, albeit retarded, misses the mark for other reasons.

I find it funny that you get your science from a christian website, really digging deep there buddy.

your posts are laughably stupid. The whole god is eternal argument is absurd, using temporal language to describe the absence of time as if it is an argument.

You are super stupid, super stupid.

No we don;t there are multiple theories, one being a multiverse that is eternal and infinite, you are talking out of your ass again. We have defined a singularity which doesn't exist in reality due to us not having the math to describe it, is this the beginning? no one knows.

Typically cosmologists use metaphysical positions such as string theory (which gave way to the multiverse theory) as a method to eliminate any singularity event...not create one.    From what I've read the majority of cosmologists and physicists prefer the notion of the eternality of the universe in that has no beginning, singularity or causal event.  It simply "is what it is" but is self-sustaining and theoretically regenerative or healing....yet without purpose.  Even Lawrence Krauss and Neil deGrasse Tyson seemingly concur that the universe is purposeless....a singularity event would substantiate a notion of purpose.

Krauss repeatedly states the following:

The universe is flat.
The universe has zero total energy.
The universe could’ve begun from nothing.

Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is "there had to be". If you have nothing in quantum mechanics you’ll always get something.  It’s that simple, but it’s true.

Quantum fluctuations produced the flat universe out of nothing....virtual particles popping in and out of existence.  How is this possible?  No idea, but we've defined that their nature is to do so.

Within metaphysics the impossible is allowed......better, it's acceptable provided the caveat of "we just haven't discovered the reason yet" or "we don't have the math yet" is applied then all impossibilities are reasonably justified.  It's perfectly acceptable to not have an answer, but that can't be the crutch on which the premise is grounded.   For example, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle allows for changes in mass, energy, position, momentum and time that are basically impossible.  

In the end, as long as the "singularity event" isn't God all else is justifiably fair game.  Just too much accountability appended to that idea.....who needs that noise, right?!  Let's concentrate on reasoning that one away, disguised in the noble yet generic endeavour of "the name of science". As long as we define terms and state that things within our metaphysical ideas have been "reasonably observed" all is good and acceptable.    

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #290 on: November 17, 2014, 12:56:16 PM »
Typically cosmologists use metaphysical positions such as string theory (which gave way to the multiverse theory) as a method to eliminate any singularity event...not create one.    From what I've read the majority of cosmologists and physicists prefer the notion of the eternality of the universe in that has no beginning, singularity or causal event.  It simply "is what it is" but is self-sustaining and theoretically regenerative or healing....yet without purpose.  Even Lawrence Krauss and Neil deGrasse Tyson seemingly concur that the universe is purposeless....a singularity event would substantiate a notion of purpose.

Krauss repeatedly states the following:

The universe is flat.
The universe has zero total energy.
The universe could’ve begun from nothing.

Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is "there had to be". If you have nothing in quantum mechanics you’ll always get something.  It’s that simple, but it’s true.

Quantum fluctuations produced the flat universe out of nothing....virtual particles popping in and out of existence.  How is this possible?  No idea, but we've defined that their nature is to do so.

Within metaphysics the impossible is allowed......better, it's acceptable provided the caveat of "we just haven't discovered the reason yet" or "we don't have the math yet" is applied then all impossibilities are reasonably justified.  It's perfectly acceptable to not have an answer, but that can't be the crutch on which the premise is grounded.   For example, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle allows for changes in mass, energy, position, momentum and time that are basically impossible.  

In the end, as long as the "singularity event" isn't God all else is justifiably fair game.  Just too much accountability appended to that idea.....who needs that noise, right?!  Let's concentrate on reasoning that one away, disguised in the noble yet generic endeavour of "the name of science". As long as we define terms and state that things within our metaphysical ideas have been "reasonably observed" all is good and acceptable.    

string theory is not metaphysical, real math and predictions are made.



Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #291 on: November 17, 2014, 01:14:12 PM »
string theory is not metaphysical, real math and predictions are made.




traditional math (advanced yet traditional) and predictions are also used in metaphysical scenarios.

what do you mean by "real math"?

what are the predictions?

what are the predictions compared against?


King Shizzo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #292 on: November 17, 2014, 02:21:00 PM »
Did we find out if god exists yet?

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #293 on: November 17, 2014, 03:12:16 PM »
Did we find out if god exists yet?

told you a long time ago he does LOL

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #294 on: November 18, 2014, 05:05:54 AM »
traditional math (advanced yet traditional) and predictions are also used in metaphysical scenarios.

what do you mean by "real math"?

what are the predictions?

what are the predictions compared against?



serious question?

real math in the way a singularity is not.

Metaphysical things can be tested experimentally? any examples? are you talking about theoretical physics?


Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #295 on: November 18, 2014, 08:06:55 AM »
serious question?

real math in the way a singularity is not.

Metaphysical things can be tested experimentally? any examples? are you talking about theoretical physics?



String theory is considered theoretical when it attempts to unify the natural world, but when it attempts to eliminate a singularity event (or invent one) it degrades into metaphysics (ex: multiverse theory).  It's "science's" attempt at engaging and justifying the transcendent yet making every effort to negate the problem of God.  The problem is scientific methods are incompatible with the transcendant yet ironically are demanded to be forcefit into discussions of spirituality.  Natural methods can't measure or replicate supernatural properties (God).  Since God stands outside the natural, testable, observable world he must be approached on his terms as set forth in scripture.  Either you are willing and desire to do so or you aren't and don't.   You don't demand things of God, you willfully submit to him....that's when he reveals himself......on his terms, not the world's.  

So again, from a metaphysical perspective:

what do you mean by "real math"?
what are the predictions?
what are the predictions compared against?

I'm not cornering you, I'm just asking questions.  

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #296 on: November 18, 2014, 08:47:21 AM »
String theory is considered theoretical when it attempts to unify the natural world, but when it attempts to eliminate a singularity event (or invent one) it degrades into metaphysics (ex: multiverse theory).  It's "science's" attempt at engaging and justifying the transcendent yet making every effort to negate the problem of God.  The problem is scientific methods are incompatible with the transcendant yet ironically are demanded to be forcefit into discussions of spirituality.  Natural methods can't measure or replicate supernatural properties (God).  Since God stands outside the natural, testable, observable world he must be approached on his terms as set forth in scripture.  Either you are willing and desire to do so or you aren't and don't.   You don't demand things of God, you willfully submit to him....that's when he reveals himself......on his terms, not the world's.  

You are missing my point, there is NO SUCH THING AS A SINGULARITY, it is a failure of our observations and mathematics. I got raped on this years ago on a cosmology board, it's a simplified account of the math.  We can eliminate the god of bible straight away imo.

So again, from a metaphysical perspective:

what do you mean by "real math"?
what are the predictions?
what are the predictions compared against?

I'm not cornering you, I'm just asking questions.  

ed whitten for example condensed the dimensions to 11, using mathematics that can be used to make predictions about these dimensions, this is what I am referring to as real math, not elegant numbers with no bearing on reality, several theoretical theories, like loop quantum gravity have been accused of elegant solutions with no applicability.

If you know about string theory I am unsure why you are asking about the predictions. It also depends on which theory you are talking about, there are several, however, super symmetry is one prediction,string harmonics (untestable currently), phase energy and eternal inflation in areas of vaccum ie the expansion of space and the curvature of it, gravitational lensing etc. there are many more but again that's neither here no there, because to be honest, neither one of us is equipped to understand it truly.

We need a better particle accelerator. However, it's laughable to compare string theory to god, one makes sense the other does not. The bible is clearly written by a human or humans, where is god now? could we get some updated info?


Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #297 on: November 18, 2014, 08:48:18 AM »
String theory is considered theoretical when it attempts to unify the natural world, but when it attempts to eliminate a singularity event (or invent one) it degrades into metaphysics (ex: multiverse theory).  
what are the predictions compared against?

I'm not cornering you, I'm just asking questions.  

again, incorrect, multiverse theory has predictions unlike your god.

loco

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #298 on: November 18, 2014, 08:49:21 AM »
Ignorance of History is strong in this thread.



Monseigneur Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic Priest, was the originator of what would become known as the "Big Bang Theory".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Big_Bang_theory

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #299 on: November 18, 2014, 10:35:09 AM »
Ignorance of History is strong in this thread.



Monseigneur Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic Priest, was the originator of what would become known as the "Big Bang Theory".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Big_Bang_theory

There is nothing wrong with being religious and scientific, however, you can't let it interfere with your science. If this guy for example said "then the planck epoch begins and boom god did it" it wouldn't be taken seriously. Nor does the fact that he is religious add any strength to the case for god, there is no connection. Hitler could have came up with the theory, it wouldn't mean the nazis were right.