why come off or not go on to get lean 1st?

[local hero]

This is a trend that happened around the gh15 era, and its somthing that still perplexes me...

this is pure bro science to the highest degree, yes being lean and efficient helps get the most out of your drugs, but a layer of fat does not stop them working

If anything you will achieve your goal of getting leaner much sooner, I would never recomend dieting without gear in your system, unless feeling like shit and looking skinny fat are your goals


I'm sure many 'bro's' will now dissagree

[kevthekid]

This is a trend that happened around the gh15 era, and its somthing that still perplexes me...

this is pure bro science to the highest degree, yes being lean and efficient helps get the most out of your drugs, but a layer of fat does not stop them working

If anything you will achieve your goal of getting leaner much sooner, I would never recomend dieting without gear in your system, unless feeling like shit and looking skinny fat are your goals


I'm sure many 'bro's' will now dissagree

I don't necessarily believe that you shouldn't start gear if you're not lean, but I do think that you get the most bang for your buck if you start lean. Also when you're lean and im talking 7-8% BF, it usually means you know how to diet and maintain bodyfat levels etc. which goes hand in hand with gear usage. I personally started lean during my first Test E cycle at about 8-9% BF, but this time during my tren/test cycle I started at a BF% over 10 and I feel like I could've gotten much better results if I had cruised and cut down to under 10% then started

[mazfit]

look if ur not lean enough you going to have more eostrogen floating in the system

= bitch tits, cry baby, more eostrogen = less fat loss

get to a point you can see your abs then hit

mast prop tren hgh and dont ever fucking come off

[heenok]

all steroids work much better when sub lean

you wont see shit from DHT compound if you are 12%+
you will be an estrogen fountain when using aromatizing drug

it will get you stronger, bigger, improve recovery, metabolism etc...
but visually speaking the magic will not happen.

so from a purely bodybuilding standpoint, you should never exceed 12% bodyfat for optimal results.

[mazfit]

all steroids work much better when sub lean

you wont see shit from DHT compound if you are 12%+
you will be an estrogen fountain when using aromatizing drug

it will get you stronger, bigger, improve recovery, metabolism etc...
but visually speaking the magic will not happen.

so from a purely bodybuilding standpoint, you should never exceed 12% bodyfat for optimal results.

He knows the truth. why are you bodybuilding anyway if you above 15% and im not talking water different things im talking ADIPOSE TUISSUE - IF U ARE 15% ADIPOSE TISSUE YOUR NOT A BODYBUILD your not into bodybuild and your not into gym - you as i say  - ur a wanabe never be!

[local hero]

Pure rubbish yet again from the bros... You will become lean in an anabolic state why wait and prolong the agony, these are advices that are pure internets..


Lets say you've had to have a lay off ir youve been travelling around with work etc, you've put a little bit of chub on, its a few month away from summer holls, wedding etc etc, ...so you bros are telling me you'd diet down natty then go on? I'm not buying it..

[pestosterone]

Any time off is a step back words no matter what

[mazfit]

Pure rubbish yet again from the bros... You will become lean in an anabolic state why wait and prolong the agony, these are advices that are pure internets..


Lets say you've had to have a lay off ir youve been travelling around with work etc, you've put a little bit of chub on, its a few month away from summer holls, wedding etc etc, ...so you bros are telling me you'd diet down natty then go on? I'm not buying it..

NO, if hes fat going on aromitising steroids is not the answer.

if hes sitting with a little flabbut still see abd then yeah ceertainly

but fat + steroids = gyno and bloofy and shit lucking

[local hero]

NO, if hes fat going on aromitising steroids is not the answer.

if hes sitting with a little flabbut still see abd then yeah ceertainly

but fat + steroids = gyno and bloofy and shit lucking

I don't agree, neither does any offseasin bodybuilder for the past 50yrs...

[Overload]

It depends on your goals, but it does not make a difference if you are lean or not. I personally see better gains when i start a cycle when i'm higher bodyfat and cut my way down to 7-8% BF while on cycle. 

Now if you're really fat and want the best bang for the buck, i see no reason why you shouldn't use AAS to help you cut fat.  Just don't expect it to do all the work for you.

A lot of this goes back to the belief that you should know what you're doing before using steroids.  If you can't get lean without steroids, then you probably won't be able to do it with them.  Kind of the walk before you run attitude.  However, if this isn't your first rodeo and you understand your body, it doesn't make a difference.  You won't make better gains if you start lean IME.  I found it to be the opposite actually, but everyone is different.

I have more issues with estrogen when i'm lean.  The only time i've ever had gyno flare up was when i was 6% BF and only running 600mg of Test and 900mg of Eq.

[ritch]

6-7% is very lean, no need to go so low, 10% is plenty, the gear will get you in shape must faster than getting to 6-7% natty and looking super small, nobody cares if you're that lean if you're small, just another skinny guy with abs...

[local hero]

Thank you ! Its common sense...

[Jizmo]

...
I have more issues with estrogen when i'm lean.  The only time i've ever had gyno flare up was when i was 6% BF and only running 600mg of Test and 900mg of Eq.

no. you just SEE that you get gyno at low bodyfat levels.

its a fact that you aromatize less the lower your bodyfat is.

[Mawse]

Totally agree, getting lean requires much more aas IMO than bulking because you're catabolic for months on end and likely overtrained to shit

Cutting a fattie on var, low dose test and low dose tren would result in. Ugh better,faster transformation than the retarded way of doing it

[heenok]

6-7% is very lean, no need to go so low, 10% is plenty, the gear will get you in shape must faster than getting to 6-7% natty and looking super small, nobody cares if you're that lean if you're small, just another skinny guy with abs...

6% shirtless will be much much more impressive than a 10% shirtless
even if the 10% guy is slightly more lean muscle

when in clothes you need to either be a lean mass monster or a fat fuck to look "big"

[whitewidow]

This is a trend that happened around the gh15 era, and its somthing that still perplexes me...

this is pure bro science to the highest degree, yes being lean and efficient helps get the most out of your drugs, but a layer of fat does not stop them working

If anything you will achieve your goal of getting leaner much sooner, I would never recomend dieting without gear in your system, unless feeling like shit and looking skinny fat are your goals


I'm sure many 'bro's' will now dissagree

depends if it's your first cycle! I think if it is your first cycle you should be training super hard anyway and you should be lean when you start your first cycle. I would say you should be pretty lean before you run a cycle. The only reason i would go against what I preach is if your testosterone levels are shot then you need a TRt dose to help you get lean but I wouldn;t run a hardcore stack unless you got around 7-9%BF if you have low testosterone you should do a shot of Test cyp a week and you should be able to lose the weight and BF% then use your desired stack.

[local hero]

I was pretty hefty my 1st cycle, but I was riding the wave of putting on size and lifting bigger weights, at the time a bit of bloat didn't concerne me.... I still think there's times in your life where bulking up is positive and your late teens is one of them..repeatedly bulking up then starving your self is however a pointless exercise
as you tend to gain very little and have to kill your self to get the fat off

[Overload]

no. you just SEE that you get gyno at low bodyfat levels.

its a fact that you aromatize less the lower your bodyfat is.

I've never gotten gyno symptoms in 12+ years of AAS use until last year when i was super lean.  It wasn't noticeable to the eye, but my nipples were sore all the time and i could feel the hard lumps in them.

Sure it's a true statement that you aromatize less, but the actual impact it has on your body as a whole when you use moderate doses of AAS is insignificant.  Now if you want to blast 2000mg of Test that's another story.  I've done bloodwork on myself for 8 years and it's not something that concerns me at all.  The fluctuation is almost insignificant; i noticed more issues with my diet.

[Jizmo]

I've never gotten gyno symptoms in 12+ years of AAS use until last year when i was super lean.  It wasn't noticeable to the eye, but my nipples were sore all the time and i could feel the hard lumps in them.

Sure it's a true statement that you aromatize less, but the actual impact it has on your body as a whole when you use moderate doses of AAS is insignificant.  Now if you want to blast 2000mg of Test that's another story.  I've done bloodwork on myself for 8 years and it's not something that concerns me at all.  The fluctuation is almost insignificant; i noticed more issues with my diet.

you didnt get gyno because you were lean though. correlation =/= causation
you just happened to be lean  - at the time you got gyno

maybe your AI was bunk at that time or one of your AAS was not what the label said or whatever.

i agree that diet plays a role too. 

[whitewidow]

I think it's fine to use a HRT dose of Test to get lean only if you need it! If you are hitting 750-800NG'dl why would you need steroids to cutt? If your Test levels are that high but your BF% is 15% you should be able to cutt down to 8-10% without any gear with proper diet! Now if your Test level is fucked! and you are a long time user and say like in my case I couldn;t work out after my car accident so I put on some BF% and not only that my Test levels were fucked! so in a case like that you do need to use a TRt dose to get your Test levels back around 750-1,000Ng/Dl wich is just a normal (kind of on the high side normal) and then diet and cutt down to 8-10% and then use the desired stack!

I am in that ballpark right as we speak! It took me a few months now of being on 400-500mg of Test and I still should lose another 2%BF. I'm about 10-11% BF right now but I am not going to run that cycle I listed for about a month so I can get to 8-9% BF plus I have to wait for caber now since you guys talked me into it and I am waiting for HGH as well so probably won;t have everything 100% I need for about 3-4 weeks. I have all the oils and the Methyl-Trenbolone but need a kit of HGH and a few tabs of caber and my stuff comes from overseas so I have to wait a few weeks anyway.

I apprexciate the tips from some of the top competitors on this board and the few guys I know locally who have been doing al they can to help me back to hit my desired BF% and Mentor me a little through this TRt cruise and soon harsh cycle.I got some great tips I didn't know about from a few guys and you guys know who you are!

[local hero]

I think this has drifted away from what the point I was making... Alot of guys are coming on here for advices and are being told to stay away from gear until they are 10% or lower, I will say yet again, this is pure bro science internet mumbo jumbo

[oni]

I think this has drifted away from what the point I was making... Alot of guys are coming on here for advices and are being told to stay away from gear until they are 10% or lower, I will say yet again, this is pure bro science internet mumbo jumbo

I think it's the same reason that beginners are told to do a 5x5 routine.
Its a very easy, convenient answer that will "work" in 100% of cases but is far from optimal

[MastHead]

I'm kinda new here, but I can tell u it's not just here, it's every fck'n board u go on, & I think it's total BS! Now, if ur a fatass, drugs "might help alittle"(DNP), but u gotta do some work in the kitchen...but anyone that has some fat on them, it can really help IMO

[whitewidow]

I'm kinda new here, but I can tell u it's not just here, it's every fck'n board u go on, & I think it's total BS! Now, if ur a fatass, drugs "might help alittle"(DNP), but u gotta do some work in the kitchen...but anyone that has some fat on them, it can really help IMO

maybe drugs like HGH and very few AAS drugs I might advise but only after you try doing it naturally and get some blodwork done. if you were on a strict diet and were training like a maniac on some Anavar,HGH and Test prop couldn't hurt .

g But honestly the best results I have ever seen inlcludin mself I was 8%BF or lower wich is pretty damn low! That is why I used alot more when I was in my early to mid 20's BF% is usually lower and even if it gets a few points higher it is much easier to get the body fat off,( when your in your early 20's your test levels are way higher and your thyroid is working better) your metabolism is just generally working better when you are in that age group.

at least try to diet for a few months and see if it helps then use your gear just make sure you know how to diet and prior to jumping on cycle go get some bloodwork and see what is low! You should not have a problem losing weight and bF% unless your Test levels are low or your thyroid hormone is low.

[Overload]

I think this has drifted away from what the point I was making... Alot of guys are coming on here for advices and are being told to stay away from gear until they are 10% or lower, I will say yet again, this is pure bro science internet mumbo jumbo

I agree 100%.