Author Topic: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster  (Read 2697 times)

Soul Crusher

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ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« on: November 23, 2014, 03:26:18 PM »



 
 






No Easy Fix for One of Obamacare's Hardest Problems

Health and Human Services has some ideas for dealing with rate shock, but they have their own risks.




By Sam Baker
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HHS wants to change the way people renew their Obamacare coverage.(Karen Bleier/AFP/Getty Images)
 



November 21, 2014 The Health and Human Services Department wants to fix one of the Affordable Care Act's most difficult problems—but the potential fix raises new questions of its own.

The issue arises when people automatically renew coverage they've purchased through Obamacare's insurance exchanges. Many consumers who auto-renew are at risk for especially large premium hikes, some of which might not become apparent until tax season.



In a 324-page regulation released Friday evening, HHS said it's considering new policies for auto-renewal, to help consumers easily keep their coverage while attempting to protect them from major premium hikes.

Auto-renewal has always been tricky for HHS: The department has an obvious incentive to keep people covered, and thus to make it easy to renew a plan. Enrollees who bought a plan for 2014 and don't make any changes during the current open-enrollment period will be automatically renewed in the plan they already have.

But because auto-renewal is so easy, there's a risk some consumers might not notice that their premiums are going up. And due to the complex way the law's insurance subsidies are calculated, people who auto-renew might be eligible for a smaller subsidy—meaning their out-of-pocket costs would increase even more than any increase in their premiums.
 
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To tackle this problem, HHS said it's considering offering a menu of new options when people sign up for the first time.

Instead of being automatically renewed for their existing plan, consumers could ask to be switched into the cheapest plan with comparable benefits. Or, if their plans' premiums rise by more than a certain amount—say, 5 or 10 percent—they could be automatically assigned to one of the three cheapest plans with similar benefits.

Those options would shield enrollees from unexpected cuts to their insurance subsidies, and from most premium increases.

But there's a catch: Switching insurance plans means switching to a new network of doctors and other providers. It's not hard to imagine someone choosing to automatically move into a lower-cost plan, then being surprised a year later when they can't go to the same doctor they've been seeing. Switching plans—especially in search of a lower premium—can also mean higher co-pays and cost-sharing.



HHS is asking for comments on those issues as it weighs its options for refining the auto-renewal process.

The department said it's not planning to make any changes in the 36 federally run exchanges until next year, and might give states the flexibility to test out their own alternatives.

Kazan

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 03:32:05 PM »
What I find most amusing is the so called best and brightest worked on this mess. If this is the best America has to offer then we get what we deserve.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Bear232

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 06:15:33 PM »
Wonderful piece of bi-partisan legislation.


 8)

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 12:15:49 PM »
Did President Trump Just Kill Obamacare?
Townhall.com ^ | June 18, 2018 | Justin Haskins
Posted on 6/18/2018, 2:53:23 PM by Kaslin



If you’re not a health care policy nerd like me and don’t pay close attention to the fear-mongering commonly found in outlets like The Washington Post and CNN, you may have missed the recent explosion of news stories and opinion articles bashing the Trump administration for allegedly putting Obamacare in grave danger — and doing so in a reckless and legally questionable manner, too.

For instance, New York magazine accused the Trump administration of “standing against the rule of law.” The New York Times’ Margot Sanger-Katz wrote a recent Trump administration decision could make it “much more difficult for individuals and small businesses to buy health insurance.” OneWashington Post writer called the move “the coward’s way out on health care.”

The outrage from the Left was sparked by a decision made on June 7 by the Justice Department to choose not to defend key aspects of Obamacare in a recent lawsuit filed by 20 states and several other plaintiffs. According to the lawsuit, Obamacare will become unconstitutional on January 1, 2019, when the Obamacare individual mandate is reduced to $0. (Congress and President Trump gutted the individual mandate in December when it passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.)

As I noted in May for Townhall, the reason nearly half of all states and other legal experts believe the law will no longer be constitutional in January is:

“… in the 2012 decision upholding the legality of the Obamacare individual mandate, Chief Justice John Roberts cast the tie-breaking vote in favor of the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate on the basis that the penalty imposed for not having ‘qualifying’ health insurance is not a fine, penalty, or fee, but rather a tax. Since Congress has the power to tax, Roberts reasoned, it has the power to impose the individual mandate.”

“When Congress and the Trump administration … lowered the Obamacare penalty to $0 (effective January 1, 2019), [they eliminated] any possibility of the fine being considered a ‘tax.’ They did not, however, eliminate the mandate to purchase health insurance (because they couldn’t under the congressional rules used to pass the tax reform law). Without the so-called ‘tax’ tied to the mandate, the foundation of Roberts’ argument will completely disappear when the penalty is removed.”

Or, put simply, if Obamacare’s individual mandate is only constitutional because Congress has the power to tax, then without a tax, there’s no legal basis for the mandate.

Further, the Supreme Court has ruled in previous cases that when a specific provision of a law is determined to be unconstitutional, other provisions of that law should also be struck down if the Court determines Congress wouldn’t have approved the legislation without the eliminated, unconstitutional aspect of the law. The reason for this is simple: Courts shouldn’t be legislating from the bench.

It turns out Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the Trump administration agree. On June 7, they noted in an official court filing they concur with many of the states’ arguments and won’t be defending key aspects of the Affordable Care Act as a result.

This situation is truly remarkable. It’s extremely rare for the federal government, which has an obligation to defend most properly enacted laws in court, to acknowledge that an existing federal law violates the Constitution. Yet, that’s exactly what the Trump administration has done.

“As you know, the Executive Branch has a longstanding tradition of defending the constitutionality of duly enacted statutes if reasonable arguments can be made in their defense,” Jeff Sessions wrote in a letter to House Speaker Paul Ryan last week explaining the Department of Justice’s position. “But not every professionally responsible argument is necessarily reasonable in this context, as ‘different cases can raise very different issues with respect to statutes of doubtful constitutional validity,’ and thus there are ‘a variety of factors that bear on whether the Department will defend the constitutionality of a statute.’ Letter to Hon. Orrin G. Hatch from Assistant Attorney General Andrew Fois at 7 (Mar. 22, 1996). Weighing those considerations here, I have concluded that this is a rare case where the proper course is to forgo defense of” certain sections of the Affordable Care Act.

This decision by the Justice Department isn’t totally unprecedented. As The Hill noted recently, the Obama administration chose not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act in 2011 when it was being challenged by those who believe it’s unconstitutional to legally define marriage as being between one man and one woman.

If the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas sides with the argument presented by the government, Obamacare’s mandate requiring insurers to accept all applicants, including those with pre-existing conditions, could be eliminated. So could the provision in the ACA that forbids insurers charging people more or less money based on the health of an applicant and other factors.

Liberals are right to be concerned. It’s hard to imagine the ACA’s individual mandate could be considered constitutional on the basis of it being a tax if the tax is eliminated, and it’s equally difficult to imagine the law would have been passed by Congress without the individual mandate, which the law itself calls “essential” to the operation of the Obamacare health insurance exchanges. But what about all those people who rely on the Obamacare exchanges for their health insurance? Many liberals are arguing the Trump administration’s decision will put millions of people at risk of losing their insurance.

Several important considerations must be kept in mind. First, if the law is unconstitutional, it shouldn’t matter what the consequences are. The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the United States, and we can’t start tolerating unconstitutional laws because we’re worried what might happen if we force Congress to follow the rule of law.

Second, it’s extremely unlikely Congress would allow millions of people to suddenly lose their health insurance. Congress would almost certainly be forced to pass a new — and hopefully better — law to replace Obamacare, one that would grant power to the states to determine the best method for helping people with pre-existing conditions and lower-income families.

Third, Obamacare is already in the midst of a horrific death spiral. Health Pocket reports families enrolled in Obamacare Bronze Plans must pay a maximum out-of-pocket cost of $13,905 before health insurers will cover all costs for medical care, and Bronze Plan premiums increased by more than 20 percent from 2017 to 2018. It’s only a matter of time before the whole system comes crashing down.

Did the Trump administration kill Obamacare? No, but it may have just put this terrible law on life support. It’s up to the courts to decide what happens next.

TheGrinch

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 01:29:40 PM »
so do I have to still pay the penalty this year or not?

If so.... F' the govn't and Oturdocare is still on the books

Dos Equis

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 02:22:06 PM »
so do I have to still pay the penalty this year or not?

If so.... F' the govn't and Oturdocare is still on the books

No.

Correct, yes.   lol

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/03/news/economy/obamacare-tax-penalty/index.html

TheGrinch

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 07:17:54 PM »
No.

Correct, yes.   lol

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/03/news/economy/obamacare-tax-penalty/index.html


exactly... Oturdocare still exists and by 2019 they'll figure out another way to extend the tax ...er... I mean penality


Love how they can legally penalize me for not buying something from a private company

Agnostic007

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 09:59:52 PM »

exactly... Oturdocare still exists and by 2019 they'll figure out another way to extend the tax ...er... I mean penality


Love how they can legally penalize me for not buying something from a private company

like car insurance

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 02:01:04 AM »
like car insurance

You have the choice not to own a car.  You don’t need insurance to be able to drive

chaos

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 03:52:26 AM »
like car insurance
You get a fine in TX if you don't have auto ins?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Agnostic007

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 09:45:43 AM »
You get a fine in TX if you don't have auto ins?

ticket up to 500 bucks if I recall. Failure to Maintain Insurance. Listen, I don't like the government forcing people to get health insurance. But I also don't like people who don't get health insurance driving up the cost of health care because they still use the facilities when they need medical treatment. So I'm all for being personally responsible and if we all agreed, if you don't have health insurance that's fine, but you either pay up front when you show up at the hospital or you don't get treated, I'd be fine with that. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 09:46:45 AM »
ticket up to 500 bucks if I recall. Failure to Maintain Insurance. Listen, I don't like the government forcing people to get health insurance. But I also don't like people who don't get health insurance driving up the cost of health care because they still use the facilities when they need medical treatment. So I'm all for being personally responsible and if we all agreed, if you don't have health insurance that's fine, but you either pay up front when you show up at the hospital or you don't get treated, I'd be fine with that. 

Also - with a auto policy you get a break for good driving and penalized for bad driving record.  Obamathefagcare outlaws that.   

Agnostic007

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
Also - with a auto policy you get a break for good driving and penalized for bad driving record.  Obamathefagcare outlaws that.   

There were a lot of issues with Obama Care but the premise was sound. Rather than scrap it all, it would have been great if our two party government could have put on their big boy pants and ironed out the issues.

chaos

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 10:15:21 AM »
it would have been great if our two party government could have put on their big boy pants and ironed out the issues.
lmao, we had to pass it to find out what was in it.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 12:04:41 PM »
I heard Trump campaign that he was going to give us something great for heath care.
What happened? Where's the great new coverage?

You have obamaSTDcare - be happy   

IroNat

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2018, 03:09:02 PM »
It's how insurance works that you need everybody in the risk pool so you can spread the cost over not only the people who need it (the sick) but also the people who don't need it (the young/healthy).

Otherwise the only people who sign up are the sick and the costs can't be spread out to keep premiums affordable for all.  

Naturally, a 25 year old doesn't want to pay for health insurance when he is not sick.  But when he gets sick/hurt/old you can bet he wants it NOW.

That's how homeowners and life insurance work.  You can't just sell life insurance to people who have cancer and are going to die in 3 months.  Why would any insurance company do that?

Most houses don't burn down but maybe 1 out of 200 does.  The rest pay in and it spreads out the cost for everybody.

That's also why you don't sell health insurance to people who have pre-existing conditions that will cost a fortune to treat.

You have to get people insured BEFORE they get sick, i.e. when they are young or healthy.

That's why universal coverage makes sense.  


Agnostic007

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2018, 09:44:28 PM »
It's how insurance works that you need everybody in the risk pool so you can spread the cost over not only the people who need it (the sick) but also the people who don't need it (the young/healthy).

Otherwise the only people who sign up are the sick and the costs can't be spread out to keep premiums affordable for all.  

Naturally, a 25 year old doesn't want to pay for health insurance when he is not sick.  But when he gets sick/hurt/old you can bet he wants it NOW.

That's how homeowners and life insurance work.  You can't just sell life insurance to people who have cancer and are going to die in 3 months.  Why would any insurance company do that?

Most houses don't burn down but maybe 1 out of 200 does.  The rest pay in and it spreads out the cost for everybody.

That's also why you don't sell health insurance to people who have pre-existing conditions that will cost a fortune to treat.

You have to get people insured BEFORE they get sick, i.e. when they are young or healthy.

That's why universal coverage makes sense.  



excellent post

IroNat

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 03:58:32 AM »
excellent post

The doctors, hospitals and pharma companies don't want change because they are making a killing as it is.

They don't want financial reform of health care.  The insurance companies win either way, they just keep raising the premiums to offset increased costs.

It's quite a messed up system with no easy solution.

They probably should expand Medicare into a universal program.  Everybody in Medicare.  Raise the Medicare tax to pay for it or something.  It has to be funded somehow.  Costs are also out of whack.  Hospitals, doctors and pharma make too much money.

For the individual the solution is one or more of the following:

1) get a job with health insurance (if possible)
2) make a lot of money so you can afford health care
3) save/invest for the the future when you may need to pay for health insurance or care
4) don't get sick or injured
5) move to a country with universal healthcare and high taxes.
6) die

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 04:24:23 AM »
The doctors, hospitals and pharma companies don't want change because they are making a killing as it is.

They don't want financial reform of health care.  The insurance companies win either way, they just keep raising the premiums to offset increased costs.

It's quite a messed up system with no easy solution.

They probably should expand Medicare into a universal program.  Everybody in Medicare.  Raise the Medicare tax to pay for it or something.  It has to be funded somehow.  Costs are also out of whack.  Hospitals, doctors and pharma make too much money.

For the individual the solution is one or more of the following:

1) get a job with health insurance (if possible)
2) make a lot of money so you can afford health care
3) save/invest for the the future when you may need to pay for health insurance or care
4) don't get sick or injured
5) move to a country with universal healthcare and high taxes.
6) die

Or - you can allow more choices and have people in subsidized high risk pools so that the massive increases on most people are not necessary to offset the sick.  Most of the costs are incurred by something like 5% of the population.

IroNat

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 04:40:24 AM »
Or - you can allow more choices and have people in subsidized high risk pools so that the massive increases on most people are not necessary to offset the sick.  Most of the costs are incurred by something like 5% of the population.

The payouts for life insurance are to dead people.

The payouts for homeowners/fire insurance are for houses that burn down.

The payouts for car insurance are for wrecked or stolen cars.

Naturally, the biggest payouts for healthcare are for really sick and seriously injured people.

We already have socialized medicine.  It's called Medicare and Medicaid.

The subsidies you recommend would have to be paid by somebody.  Who would that be?  Taxpayers?

So you and me.

There is no easy, cheap answer.  

Someday you too will get old or sick or seriously injured and need healthcare.  It sucks and if you are not insured or wealthy it will bankrupt you and your family.

We need a dictator for a year or so to fix this stuff.


chaos

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 05:10:13 AM »
It's how insurance works that you need everybody in the risk pool so you can spread the cost over not only the people who need it (the sick) but also the people who don't need it (the young/healthy).

Otherwise the only people who sign up are the sick and the costs can't be spread out to keep premiums affordable for all.  

Naturally, a 25 year old doesn't want to pay for health insurance when he is not sick.  But when he gets sick/hurt/old you can bet he wants it NOW.

That's how homeowners and life insurance work.  You can't just sell life insurance to people who have cancer and are going to die in 3 months.  Why would any insurance company do that?

Most houses don't burn down but maybe 1 out of 200 does.  The rest pay in and it spreads out the cost for everybody.

That's also why you don't sell health insurance to people who have pre-existing conditions that will cost a fortune to treat.

You have to get people insured BEFORE they get sick, i.e. when they are young or healthy.

That's why universal coverage makes sense.  


My auto, homeowners, dental insurance is all a fraction of what I pay for medical. The entire obamacare program should have been thought out better. Possibly offering a low cost insurance option for people that can't afford ins? The free markets reaction to everyone being forced to buy insurance was to raise prices and fuck the consumer. Any lower priced option has extremely high copays. It's ridiculous that that bullshit was allowed to be put into law.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

IroNat

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 05:26:22 AM »
My auto, homeowners, dental insurance is all a fraction of what I pay for medical. The entire obamacare program should have been thought out better. Possibly offering a low cost insurance option for people that can't afford ins? The free markets reaction to everyone being forced to buy insurance was to raise prices and fuck the consumer. Any lower priced option has extremely high copays. It's ridiculous that that bullshit was allowed to be put into law.


It is a disaster for sure.

Of course auto insurance is mandatory and for most people who have mortgages, homeowners insurance is mandatory.

Since there are no price controls the doctors, hospitals, and pharma just keep raising prices and the insurance companies keep paying them.

The way the insurance system is setup it encourages the above to raise their costs.

And it goes on and on.

It's scary when you need healthcare.  It is so expensive it will bankrupt you.

These high tech treatments cost a fortune.  A wrecked car is replaced for $20-$50k.  A serious operation or treatment cost hundreds of thousands.

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare is a complete FNG disaster
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2018, 05:27:24 AM »
The payouts for life insurance are to dead people.

The payouts for homeowners/fire insurance are for houses that burn down.

The payouts for car insurance are for wrecked or stolen cars.

Naturally, the biggest payouts for healthcare are for really sick and seriously injured people.

We already have socialized medicine.  It's called Medicare and Medicaid.

The subsidies you recommend would have to be paid by somebody.  Who would that be?  Taxpayers?

So you and me.

There is no easy, cheap answer.  

Someday you too will get old or sick or seriously injured and need healthcare.  It sucks and if you are not insured or wealthy it will bankrupt you and your family.

We need a dictator for a year or so to fix this stuff.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20180613/HEALTH_CARE/180619943

Check this out. 

IroNat

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