Author Topic: Does higher intensity and pain lead to more muscle? (Read 5671 times)

calfzilla · « **on:** November 28, 2014, 05:05:29 AM »

I watch guys like Dorian and see how intense they train, seem to be in a lot of pain bringing the set beyond failure and such. My question does this super high intensity equate to more mass or are you just as well off doing your sets with great form on all reps and avg intensity?

thegamechanger · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2014, 05:07:48 AM »

some claim it does, other that it doesnt. but even if it does one has to calculate the higher risk of injury (or just the mentality it requires to wanna go through that shit every time you hit the gym, although some feel they havent done enough unless they push themselves) the end result might be negligible.

gracie bjj · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2014, 05:13:15 AM »

the ole NO PAIN NO GAIN has been around forever and just like arnold said in pumping iron,IF U CAN GO THRU THIS PAIN BARRIER U MAY GET TO B A CHAMPION,IF U CANT,FORGET IT. AND THATS WHAT MOST PEOPLE LACK THE WILL TO GO IN AND SAY IM GONNA GO THRU NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS,I THREW UP MANY TIMES WHILE I WAS WORKING OUT. im not exactly sure about the rest but im sure everyones got the point by know

hench · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2014, 05:27:32 AM »

To see just how little i need to train to maintain i've recently slashed my workout time to 10 minutes! 2 exercises with a 5 minute limit fitting in as many sets as i can in that time each one to failure with about 5 seconds rest max in between each. As a result i'm actually aching later that day rather than it creeping up the next, my muscles feel harder and fuller, tighter and vascularity showing more. So i might be working out less but the intensity is much higher and it seems to be working for me right now, so i'm actually gaining some rather than maintaining, bonus!

gracie bjj · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2014, 05:31:15 AM »

Quote from: hench on November 28, 2014, 05:27:32 AM

To see just how little i need to train to maintain i've recently slashed my workout time to 10 minutes! 2 exercises with a 5 minute limit fitting in as many sets as i can in that time each one to failure with about 5 seconds rest max in between each. As a result i'm actually aching later that day rather than it creeping up the next, my muscles feel harder and fuller, tighter and vascularity showing more. So i might be working out less but the intensity is much higher and it seems to be working for me right now, so i'm actually gaining some rather than maintaining, bonus!

thats cool man,u r doing less and getting more out of it,cant beat that.higher intensity with shorter time in the gym always works well for me also

hench · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2014, 06:03:26 AM »

exactly, i don't even go to the gym though, use my stuff at home.

Quote from: gracie bjj on November 28, 2014, 05:31:15 AM

thats cool man,u r doing less and getting more out of it,cant beat that.higher intensity with shorter time in the gym always works well for me also

Donny · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2014, 06:13:21 AM »

Quote from: calfzilla on November 28, 2014, 05:05:29 AM

I watch guys like Dorian and see how intense they train, seem to be in a lot of pain bringing the set beyond failure and such. My question does this super high intensity equate to more mass or are you just as well off doing your sets with great form on all reps and avg intensity?

I think it´s about longevity in your training. I have posted 2 videoes from Mike Mentzer and i find it intresting what he says. training to failure is hard over a long time. I think Bill Pearl was correct in his comments about this subject. Moderate volume works for ME. Still Hench says he is getting good results. I know him from Iron Age, does know his training.

thebrink · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2014, 02:23:11 PM »

Leads to more muscularity on density IMO but not necessarily size for the sake of size. Compare todays pros to 70's bbers.

THEBOSS · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2014, 02:25:17 PM »

Contraction efficiency is the most important aspect for muscle growth .

Yanin · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2014, 02:28:47 PM »

I feel like when I'm cutting I do far less and focus basically all on form, when I'm fat and bulking I try to push beyond failure often

Jizmo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2014, 02:32:26 PM »

look at heath you phaggots

just go in and pump a bit

gotta pump urself full of drugs first tho

Tennisballz · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2014, 02:37:53 PM »

I think there is a difference in a pain from lifting weights and feeling the burn and a "oh fuck, i just injured myself" pain. The normal discomfort associated with lifting weights is the pain arnold was talking about. Or at least thats my take. I think regardless of natural/juicing or strong/weak, you should push yourself with intensity when in the gym. As i always say, experiment around and find what works better for YOU. Some like longer more controlled sessions not going to failure every set. Others like quick sessions of every set to failure. No right or wrong answer. The challenge lies in finding what works for you.

pellius · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2014, 03:43:11 PM »

As long as you are doing something relatively easy, working within your functional ability, how will that stimulate an adaptive response? As Jones you to say, you have to attempt the momentary impossible.

How much intensity is require to stimulate an adaptive response. Does it have to be 100%? Maybe it's just 90% or 85%? But as Mentzer use to say, the only points we can reasonably and accurately measure is zero or a 100%. So he said we should strive for a 100% intensity of effort.

Of course, we all know that you can do everything right. Even take hormones and still your body won't respond. I'm sure Wolf and Dex has done everything under the sun to bring up his calves all to no avail.

tommywishbone · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2014, 04:39:12 PM »

It works for some. For others it's not necessary.

Automation · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2014, 11:06:02 PM »

I would say that when you reach 35 there is little benefit in that type of brutal, long training to failure. I much prefer short and intense, lower poundages. But I'm convinced that more brutal training, in your formative years, provides you with a solid base, some kind of muscle memory, which you can tap into, as needed, using different training methods, later in life.

local hero · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2014, 12:20:10 AM »

Quote from: Tennisballz on November 28, 2014, 02:37:53 PM

I think there is a difference in a pain from lifting weights and feeling the burn and a "oh fuck, i just injured myself" pain. The normal discomfort associated with lifting weights is the pain arnold was talking about. Or at least thats my take. I think regardless of natural/juicing or strong/weak, you should push yourself with intensity when in the gym. As i always say, experiment around and find what works better for YOU. Some like longer more controlled sessions not going to failure every set. Others like quick sessions of every set to failure. No right or wrong answer. The challenge lies in finding what works for you.

What a fucking prick, this is getbig, this isn't womens weekly, as if we don't know the difference between good pain and bad

Get the fuck out if here with that shit, you've realy fucked my day up...

Tennisballz · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2014, 12:34:36 AM »

Quote from: local hero on November 29, 2014, 12:20:10 AM

What a fucking prick, this is getbig, this isn't womens weekly, as if we don't know the difference between good pain and bad

Get the fuck out if here with that shit, you've realy fucked my day up...

good! You sound like a complete asshole so please let me know in the future how i can fuck more of your days up you psycho.

Julio Ceasar · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2014, 02:45:54 AM »

Idiots train hard! It only make u sore! High volume low/medium intensity is the shit! Never wear your body out! Its not the intensity in the gym giving the result its the everyday repeat! day out day in week out week in, year after year!

How did Dorian train the first 10 years? My guess is A LOT OF SETS IN THE GYM. I think that's a bigger factor for his result. The last years was just a change with drugs and doses, nothing so much with training

Cleanest Natural · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2014, 03:16:34 AM »

Quote from: Julio Ceasar on November 29, 2014, 02:45:54 AM

Idiots train hard! It only make u sore! High volume low/medium intensity is the shit! Never wear your body out! Its not the intensity in the gym giving the result its the everyday repeat! day out day in week out week in, year after year!

How did Dorian train the first 10 years? My guess is A LOT OF SETS IN THE GYM. I think that's a bigger factor for his result. The last years was just a change with drugs and doses, nothing so much with training

I agree

whitewidow · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2014, 03:26:29 AM »

Quote from: calfzilla on November 28, 2014, 05:05:29 AM

I watch guys like Dorian and see how intense they train, seem to be in a lot of pain bringing the set beyond failure and such. My question does this super high intensity equate to more mass or are you just as well off doing your sets with great form on all reps and avg intensity?

Yes for me it does but everybody is diffrent. When I take my pre-workout and just go balls out maybe not that heavy of sets but training for pumps I get so sore. When I have my lower volume(low reps) power days I don't seem to get as sore. I notice way more growth going a little lighter and just banging out reps and taking maybe 15 second rests. of course you do want to do a few heavy sets and have a few heavy days but best results always come from volume to me. but like i said everybody is diffrent. If you break it down to science pushing forced reps,drop sets all around doing high volume your muscles have no choice but to grow. If you do one bodypart a workout say back day and you can get through 20 sets say 10-20 reps per set in 40-45 minutes your going to feel that shit!

last back workout I started out doing 50 pull-ups on a assited pull-up machine not stopping if it got to heavy I dropped the resistance and kept going then I went into my working sets that was 2 days ago and my lats are still sore. When I do heavy day low volume but heavy weight I don't get sore like that.

thegamechanger · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2014, 03:49:00 AM »

what if being sore has no relevance as far as muscle growth go

gracie bjj · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2014, 03:54:27 AM »

it comes down to one word GENETICS AND DRUGS, lee haney was known for not going balls to the wall in his training,LEES philosophy was STIMULATE DONT ANNIHILATE,he trained just hard enough but not to hard. then look at GASPARI, he buried LEE HANEY in training sessions when they trained together yet lee beat him everytime onstage,GENETICS MY FREIND. u either got them or u dont, be pissed off at mother nature or god,who ever u believe gave all of u your bodies. look at paul dillet,he was the laziest fuck to come down the pike and to top it off he used weights that a 15yr old newb used,yet he was a monster. some guys have it and some guys dont

whitewidow · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2014, 04:00:25 AM »

Quote from: thegamechanger on November 29, 2014, 03:49:00 AM

what if being sore has no relevance as far as muscle growth go

It does. I even am a enhanced bodybuilder so usually I don't get as sore as a natural bodybuilder but if I really get that good mind muscle connection and literally push say 400-500 reps per back say doing 20-25 sets within 45 minutes you should be sore or your not using strict form. I get pissed off when I don't get sore. everyday here knows the goal is to get a crazy pump and fuck up your muscle fibers a little so they grow back stronger. I am noit saying go tear a pec but you do want the fibers to tear a little and you def want to stretch out the fascia of the muscle.

The more blood and nutrients you can push into the muscle the better. they have no choice but to grown when your pushing 400-500 reps per bodypart/ smaller bodyparts at least 250 biceps/250 Triceps on a superset. Also if you use juice and eat right your going to get so many nutrients and blood to the target muscle of course you should get a little sore if not your doing something wrong.

gracie bjj · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2014, 04:10:50 AM »

Quote from: whitewidow on November 29, 2014, 04:00:25 AM

It does. I even am a enhanced bodybuilder so usually I don't get as sore as a natural bodybuilder but if I really get that good mind muscle connection and literally push say 400-500 reps per back say doing 20-25 sets within 45 minutes you should be sore or your not using strict form. I get pissed off when I don't get sore. everyday here knows the goal is to get a crazy pump and fuck up your muscle fibers a little so they grow back stronger. I am noit saying go tear a pec but you do want the fibers to tear a little and you def want to stretch out the fascia of the muscle.

The more blood and nutrients you can push into the muscle the better. they have no choice but to grown when your pushing 400-500 reps per bodypart/ smaller bodyparts at least 250 biceps/250 Triceps on a superset. Also if you use juice and eat right your going to get so many nutrients and blood to the target muscle of course you should get a little sore if not your doing something wrong.

same here,i dont care if i had the best workout of my life if i aint sore the next day im dissapointed bigtime, to me soreness means the muscle was overloaded and to me overloaded means growth,providing what whitewillow just said about the nutrients and stuff.when ones been lifting for as long as me u get to know your body and u can distinguish the difference between tendon and joint soreness compared to muscle soreness, to b honest if u push your muscles super hard u will always have a little soreness everywhere,alot will be lactic acid but alot will be just muscle breakdown damage thats begging for protien to repair itself,especially if u r a high rep person,the lactic acid seems to get me more when i do a super high rep workout compared to a higher intensity low volume workout

whitewidow · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2014, 05:05:01 AM »

Quote from: gracie bjj on November 29, 2014, 04:10:50 AM

same here,i dont care if i had the best workout of my life if i aint sore the next day im dissapointed bigtime, to me soreness means the muscle was overloaded and to me overloaded means growth,providing what whitewillow just said about the nutrients and stuff.when ones been lifting for as long as me u get to know your body and u can distinguish the difference between tendon and joint soreness compared to muscle soreness, to b honest if u push your muscles super hard u will always have a little soreness everywhere,alot will be lactic acid but alot will be just muscle breakdown damage thats begging for protien to repair itself,especially if u r a high rep person,the lactic acid seems to get me more when i do a super high rep workout compared to a higher intensity low volume workout

True when it comes down to it we want to be working muscle not joints. I have had heavy days where all I got was sore joints the target muscle was not sore. I can tell the same exact thing you want the actually muscle tissue to be sore not your joints. I still say some low volume heavy days or good even if you are working some a little of the joint. Overall you want balls to the walls training. I think the gaspari/haney comment is great point I train more like rich, rich used to train balls to the walls. Lee just had better genetics and more muscle maturity.