Regarding Mike Tyson's place in history

[vascsurgeon]

Tyson would have a punchers chance against Wladmir.  He would be shitting his pants if
he was across the ring staring at Vitali.  You are the one whose clueless.

Klitchkos would be  adequate sparring partners for the top heavies of the past. Perhaps he beats Braddock, maybe Schmelling, maybe Patterson and Johansenn.He loses badly to Louis, Marciano, Charles,Walcott, Liston,Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Holmes,Holfield and Tyson. Bowe and Lewis would be decent fights to watch Klitchko compete in, although he can't take a punch he might last awhile.
Heavyweight boxing is dead and Klitchkos holding belts proves it.
We all have opinions but, one be hard pressed to find any boxing fan that gives Klitchkos more than a prayer against any of the above.

[fredrollon]

I like Vitali.

Stylistically, he reminds me of the Argentinian heavyweight,Oscar Bonavena,who gave Ali and Frazier fits,but taller and with a better reach.

[gracie bjj]

mike tyson was a very small heavyweight who repeatedly fought guys who outweighed him by 30-40lbs,he still whipped their asses even with those odds.like i said if cus d'amato wouldve lived longer tyson never would lost to a bum like douglas,tyson started getting high,letting people fuck his mind up ect and he went down hill from there. people r saying he fought cans on his way up guys like bonecrusher smith who had 44 wins,32 ko's,and only lost 17,trevor berbick also,49 wins,33 ko's only 11 losses,these guys dont seem like cans to me. plus guys like spinks,biggs,carl truth williams,razorruddock ect,although not the greatest HW'S r far from bums imo.tyson is one of the greats imo

[Alucard]

Both Klitschko brothers would have been decent in any era, when you are that tall, with that reach and physical attributes... Vitali was the more tough and savvy of the two, Wladimir the more technically sound and one of the very very top hardest hitter of all time... Wladimir not a great chin, Vitali better, but their physical attributes did make them not easy to hit clean... They are both usually very underrated due to their mostly very boring style and for dominating the shittiest era in the history of heavyweights... Really, i just watched Chisora-Tyson Fury, a joke to laugh at, they looked worse than amateurs, what the fuck... The 80s were bad, that's why many journeymen that Tyson fought had good records, just look at Marvis Frazier, lol... Still nowhere near as bad as this laughable era...

[Ronnie Rep]

Ali before 1968 was unbeatable, the Ali all are talking about against Frazier, Norton etc was way past his prime and he still beat them more than lost to them
Tyson was great but not great enough to beat a prime Ali, the others are open for debate
To mention the Klitchkos is to expose oneself as being clueless.

This, I would add that Foreman and possibly Shavers in their prime would beat Tyson in his prime. Both Foreman and Shavers had incredible power and had the ability to knock out Tyson. The only other factor with Tyson is he had very quick hands and a devastating uppercut. That could spell trouble if he got inside.

[Alucard]

This, I would add that Foreman and possibly Shavers in their prime would beat Tyson in his prime. Both Foreman and Shavers had incredible power and had the ability to knock out Tyson. The only other factor with Tyson is he had very quick hands and a devastating uppercut. That could spell trouble if he got inside.

Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...

[gracie bjj]

Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...

old george was a beast in his day,i remember him KO;ING micheal moore with that short chopping punch,it almost looked like a hook/jab georges strength in his punches where imo one of the most powerful ALL TIME in the HW DIVISION

[Alucard]

old george was a beast in his day,i remember him KO;ING micheal moore with that short chopping punch,it almost looked like a hook/jab georges strength in his punches where imo one of the most powerful ALL TIME in the HW DIVISION

Exactly, Foreman was a freak of nature, probably the most gifted ever in terms of crushing innate power and toughness... Having talked to people who sparred many HW like Holyfield, Lewis, Tua, Morrison, Moorer, Wladimir Klitschko and old Foreman, they said that old Foreman and W. Klischko were the hardest hitter by far... Wladimir more sting, sharper punches and power, old Foreman just pure crushing force and power, simple shots knocking heavyweights around and an unmatched piston jab that could anesthetize your face, lol... Moorer ko, sloppy nonchalant right hand that destroyed his upper lip and the gum inside...

[polychronopolous]

Tony Tucker,Michael Spinks,Larry Holmes,James Tillis.....I think would last the distance.

If Spinks could somehow jump out of the ring and beat it out of there he might have a chance.

But little Michael Spinks going 12 rounds with Vitali? No.

[SuperTed]

Klitchkos would be  adequate sparring partners for the top heavies of the past. Perhaps he beats Braddock, maybe Schmelling, maybe Patterson and Johansenn.He loses badly to Louis, Marciano, Charles,Walcott, Liston,Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Holmes,Holfield and Tyson. Bowe and Lewis would be decent fights to watch Klitchko compete in, although he can't take a punch he might last awhile.
Heavyweight boxing is dead and Klitchkos holding belts proves it.
We all have opinions but, one be hard pressed to find any boxing fan that gives Klitchkos more than a prayer against any of the above.

 
I actually think most unbiased, sensible fans would make either brother the strong favourite against someone like Marciano.

Foreman-Tyson is not even worth discussing, either young or fat old Foreman would badly maul any version of Tyson... Shavers different story, Tyson would knock him out in my opinion, Shavers had weak chin and not great durability... Shavers power was extremely overrated also in my opinion, he didn't ko anyone of the greats or of note, except a burned out 36yo Norton in 1979...

Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.

[fredrollon]

If Spinks could somehow jump out of the ring and beat it out of there he might have a chance.

But little Michael Spinks going 12 rounds with Vitali? No.
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You never know. Spink's arguably a top 10 ATG light heavyweight.The guy had KO power in both hands and amazing timing and footwork. He looked outstanding against Larry Holmes,the first time round, and (admittedly a shot) Gerry Cooney.You shouldn't really judge him,by his final fight with Tyson,where he decided to lay down and get out of the sport,with his brain cells intact.


 Also,Chris Byrd,who(like Spinks) boxed as a middleweight in the Olympics, did go the distance against both Vitali and Wladimir didn't he? Beat Vitali once too,if I recall.  

[polychronopolous]

I actually think most unbiased, sensible fans would make either brother the strong favourite against someone like Marciano.

Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.

At some you just have to take sheer size advantage, extremely effective jab and big time punching power into play.

It's like those people who say Dempsy, Tunney, Jack Johnson would have beaten the Klitschko brothers.

Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.

You never know. Spink's arguably a top 10 ATG light heavyweight.The guy had KO power in both hands and amazing timing and footwork. He looked outstanding against Larry Holmes,the first time round, and (admittedly a shot) Gerry Cooney.You shouldn't really judge him,by his final fight with Tyson,where he decided to lay down and get out of the sport,with his brain cells intact.


 Also,Chris Byrd,who(like Spinks) boxed as a middleweight in the Olympics, did go the distance against both Vitali and Wladimir didn't he? Beat Vitali once too,if I recall.  

That's the key word...LIGHT Heavyweight.

Vitali has the second best kayo percentage of all time in an era with 240 pound men while never even being dropped once in his entire boxing career.

What is he going to do against a little guy like Spinks?

At some point sheer size advantage does come into play.

[SuperTed]

At some you just have to take sheer size advantage, extremely effective jab and big time punching power into play.

It's like those people who say Dempsy, Tunney, Jack Johnson would have beaten the Klitschko brothers.

Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.

I could actually understand someone thinking Dempsey beating the K's because he had the style that could potentially do it. He was quick and much like Tyson, attacked from lots of angles. Marciano though was not only significantly smaller then the K's but he was also slow (probably even more so than Wlad despite being so much lighter), crude and easy to hit. I would just see him eating jabs and right hands all night unless he lands a hail mary (suzie q) punch. 

However, it's hard generally to compare the new guys against the old timers since they would not be used to +12 round fights and the other differences in the sport that has occurred.

[fredrollon]

Give me a fucking break...those guys would never even get close to being able to cover the distance necessary to land anything meaningful on those 2 monsters.
That's the key word...LIGHT Heavyweight.

Vitali has the second best kayo percentage of all time in an era with 240 pound men while never even being dropped once in his entire boxing career.

What is he going to do against a little guy like Spinks?

At some point sheer size advantage does come into play.

Just don't fight Vitali at his own game.Use speed.Use mobility. Don't compete with him in the mass game by bulking up and losing mobility.You'll just end up standing in front of him and get outmuscled and clubbed to death.

The saying goes styles make fights. I really do think Michael Spinks could go the distance with Vitali. He was that good. I wouldn't have said this if Vitali had more explosive one stop KO power(his punches are more clubbing and fights usually end in TKO stoppages,rather than in 10 counts) and Spinks didn't beat an old Larry Holmes(who was still better than the versions Tyson,Holyfield and Mercer faced).

[polychronopolous]

Just don't fight Vitali at his own game.Use speed.Use mobility. Don't compete with him in the mass game by bulking up and losing mobility.You'll just end up standing in front of him and get outmuscled and clubbed to death.

The saying goes styles make fights. I really do think Michael Spinks could go the distance with Vitali. He was that good. I wouldn't have said this if Vitali had more explosive one stop KO power(his punches are more clubbing and fights usually end in TKO stoppages,rather than in 10 counts) and Spinks didn't beat an old Larry Holmes(who was still better than the versions Tyson,Holyfield and Mercer faced).

Even if you take the Byrd fight into account, Vitali was still miles ahead on the cards and would have cruised to a easy victory before the shoulder injury. He dominated Byrd.

Not sure how the Lewis fight would have ended but Vitali was slightly ahead on the cards in that one too. At the end of the day he still had that massive cut and all the praise needs to go to Lewis for the stoppage.

So basically, 2 fights he lost due to stoppage while being ahead on the cards and the rest of his career he dominated his opponents with a higher kayo percentage than even Tyson.

I see your points though. Maybe Spinks could stick and move and go the distance similar to what Byrd was on track to do before the injury. He was a great Light Heavyweight.

I would still have to put Spinks a heavy under dog in getting the victory, though stranger things have happened and I suppose it's possible.

[Alucard]

Fat old Foreman would have got absolutely battered by Tyson. It would have been sad to watch.

That's why Tyson was scared shitless and avoided him like plague during late 80s and early/mid 90s... Tyson knew history and matchups very well, he was not stupid... No swarmers or peek-a-boo would ever have a chance against any version of Foreman... The only way to beat him was fighting a very clever match, being either tall and rangy and/or very elusive, boxing from the outside on bicycle, cast iron chin a must... Even that is a 50-50 chance of taking the victory on points, knocking him out or down forget it... Had Tyson those attributes? No, he was somewhat of a Frazier on steroids, with less heart and toughness... Taking the fight to and brawl with any version of Foreman is suicide for any boxer in history...

[El Diablo Blanco]

This thread makes me miss the good days of Boxing.  Loved when the Heavy Weight Division ruled and fights were epic.  Boxing is total dogshit now with all mexicans and filipinos that weigh 90 pounds.

[Darren Avey]

Right im on the verge of a meltdown here, you think the old Foreman who lost to Saverese, Briggs, barely beat AXEL SCHULTZ!!!!!!!!!! Kos Mike fuckin Tyson easily!??!?!!? 

[Alucard]

Right im on the verge of a meltdown here, you think the old Foreman who lost to Saverese, Briggs, barely beat AXEL SCHULTZ!!!!!!!!!! Kos Mike fuckin Tyson easily!??!?!!? 

What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...

[polychronopolous]

What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...

Supposedly Foreman wanted that Tyson fight going all the way back to 1989.

[Ronnie Rep]

This thread makes me miss the good days of Boxing.  Loved when the Heavy Weight Division ruled and fights were epic.  Boxing is total dogshit now with all mexicans and filipinos that weigh 90 pounds.

Agreed we will never see an era again with all those quality Heavyweights.

[Darren Avey]

What? Foreman beat both Savarese and Schulz, and was blatantly robbed against prime Briggs... Not one of them did brawl with him, clever fighting from the outside... Foreman was also too old and slow when he fight them, close to his definitive retirement... Foreman late 80s/early 90s was lighter and much better... Regarding Old Foreman-Tyson, in this case the famous "styles makes fights" is completely correct... I didn't said that he would ko him easily in one or two rounds, but Old Foreman would wear him down and maul him to a TKO or KO after some rounds...

He only beat them cos the judges said, he didn't really. Watch the fights.

[BB]

Supposedly Foreman wanted that Tyson fight going all the way back to 1989.

Yes, Foreman use to call him out all the time in the 1980's - early 1990's. Apparently, Cus, and by extension his camp didn't want him with anyone like Foreman, and they had an out claiming Foreman was trying to ride Tyson's coattails to a big payday. King didn't either, but there was money to be made, so they were looking to make it happen mid 90, early 91. Meanwhile Tyson was never too keen to fight George, and felt that George was playing possum to lure in bigger opponents.  Then the Douglas fight happens, Tyson's confidence is shot, and so ends the thought of a Tyson - Foreman match.

That's the story I've always heard.

[Wiggs]

A crapload of full Tyson fights on youtube.

cut/paste

[polychronopolous]

Yes, Foreman use to call him out all the time in the 1980's - early 1990's. Apparently, Cus, and by extension his camp didn't want him with anyone like Foreman, and they had an out claiming Foreman was trying to ride Tyson's coattails to a big payday. King didn't either, but there was money to be made, so they were looking to make it happen mid 90, early 91. Meanwhile Tyson was never too keen to fight George, and felt that George was playing possum to lure in bigger opponents.  Then the Douglas fight happens, Tyson's confidence is shot, and so ends the thought of a Tyson - Foreman match.

That's the story I've always heard.

In some ways that prison sentence might have actually helped his overall legacy.

It saved him from ever actually fighting Lewis/Holyfield earlier and ever facing Bowe...3 fighters of a stature that he had never faced before and I would bet all 3 would have embarrassed him pretty bad, even with Mike being around 26 or 27 years of age.

I think Michael Moorer hurts a 1993 Tyson pretty bad too but I'm not so sure about George. Would have been a fun fight to watch although I think Mike out boxes George like Morrison did for the victory.