Author Topic: Slin without GH  (Read 23088 times)

AlphaMaleDawg

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2881
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2015, 07:07:05 PM »
I never went over 30IU. BTW what's the best generic HGH right now? I couldn't find any HGH worth buying. I can find greys and rips but not sure those are 100% real 191-AA HGH.

It looks like grey tops and mean greens are the top brands these days. I think I'm going to give the greys a whirl. Rips aren't available anymore to my knowledge so if you have a source for them, I would be questioning the source. Either that or they still have inventory left from a long time ago that they haven't sold. Rips from 2-3 years ago was the best non pharm graded HGH ever. I have never used any other brand besides rips but I am also going by what a lot of people have said and lab testing. The greys have tested exceptionally well since they came out so they are essentially rips 2.0

AlphaMaleDawg

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2881
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2015, 07:10:41 PM »
AMD i respect you man but this is COMPLETELY wrong on so many levels.

read my previous post - rapid insulin in itself does NOT cause insulin insensitivity. there is simply ZERO scientific evidence that shows short-term-hyperinsulinemia to cause insulin insensitivity. CHRONIC hyperinsulinemia - yes. short term - no !
as i said, extremely high dosages can cause beta cells in your pancreas to die eventually leading to diabetes, but NOT insulin insensitivity. but id assume that these dosages would be well above 40iu.

its actually the GH where more is NOT better, because in the LONG TERM GH CAUSES INSULIN RESISTANCE. NOT insulin.

I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.

Jizmo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2855
  • getbigbrah
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2015, 12:05:04 AM »
the 10ml vial is much cheaper than the pens
buying in bulk is always cheaper, but i havent found a source where i can get a 10ml humalog vial for 100$ so ill stick with the penfills
and im not stealing the shit from my grandma lol

I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.

yeah i definitely agree on that
if you use slin its probably best to use it pre workout to get the most bang for the buck
then post workout, then in the morning
but i dont really see the need for pwo or morning shots. id assume the more often u use it the higher the chances of spilling over into fat tissue
this is probably pretty impossible with pre workout only use.
it would just be interesting to know if a dosage like 30iu is better split up over the day or used all pre workout

chess315

  • Guest
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2015, 06:02:38 AM »
well a morning shot and one 6hrs a few times a week it will be in your system prewoekout anyways

ritch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10673
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2015, 06:57:45 AM »
I appreciate that I have your respect and I certainly don't think 40iu will lead to diabetes short term or anything lol but I just don't think it's necessary for optimal results. That's all I'm really saying. I don't have any problem with your science, just that you don't need a ton of insulin for it to be as effective as you need it to be. I am not one of those people who thinks all pros are lying and sneak in 100iu of slin every day year round when no one is looking.

Look harder, lol! As I can easily see that happening, heard it goes waaaaayyyyy higher than that from top pro's...
?

stavios

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 760
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2015, 10:24:29 AM »
buying in bulk is always cheaper, but i havent found a source where i can get a 10ml humalog vial for 100$ so ill stick with the penfills
and im not stealing the shit from my grandma lol

yeah i definitely agree on that
if you use slin its probably best to use it pre workout to get the most bang for the buck
then post workout, then in the morning
but i dont really see the need for pwo or morning shots. id assume the more often u use it the higher the chances of spilling over into fat tissue
this is probably pretty impossible with pre workout only use.
it would just be interesting to know if a dosage like 30iu is better split up over the day or used all pre workout

Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial

Jizmo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2855
  • getbigbrah
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2015, 11:18:45 AM »
Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial
dunno wtf i was thinking with the 100$
i actually just looked it up and i pay about 60$ for 1500iu (5x300iu cartridges)
so thats not even much more than what you guys pay

have to get it from UGL sources though, it needs prescription here.
i might walk into a pharmacy and ask if they can give me a new cartridge when i show them the old one but idk if thats gonna work. no problems with getting the ugl-source stuff anyway

stavios

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 760
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2015, 03:02:41 PM »
dunno wtf i was thinking with the 100$
i actually just looked it up and i pay about 60$ for 1500iu (5x300iu cartridges)
so thats not even much more than what you guys pay

have to get it from UGL sources though, it needs prescription here.
i might walk into a pharmacy and ask if they can give me a new cartridge when i show them the old one but idk if thats gonna work. no problems with getting the ugl-source stuff anyway

Well when a muscular guy ask them for anything these fuckers are always suspicious  ;D

oni

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2015, 06:08:55 PM »
you have not done much reading it seems...

shoot it, then find out!

you will want carbs in you when that stuff is peaking and it peaks sooner than 40 min.

Add your marcro numbers, you left out very important stuff here...

Also, if you go 0 carb in the day, then take carbs, do slin shot, your BS levels will go down much faster than if you had taken in carbs all day. 20 units is crazy here, get your feet wet before taking the plunge.

I'll have carbs in me. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. You also just guessed my previous history entirely

Jizmo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2855
  • getbigbrah
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2015, 03:30:14 AM »
Well when a muscular guy ask them for anything these fuckers are always suspicious  ;D
ill just go there when im cutting and looking flat, shave beforehand and say my granny just ate a whole apple pie and needs some of dat dere insulin :D ;D

oni

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2015, 04:48:25 AM »
From: Insulin Regulation of Human Hepatic Growth Hormone Receptors: Divergent Effects on Biosynthesis and Surface Translocation, Kin-Chuen Leung, Nathan Doyle, Mercedes Ballesteros, Michael J. Waters, And Ken K. Y. Ho, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2000 Vol. 85 No. 12 4712-4720

In the study they recognized the importance of insulin and how it interacts with growth hormone, specifically highlighting that "insulin is essential for GH stimulation of IGF-I production and growth."

They then focused on the results of their study. They found that:

- Insulin up-regulated total and intracellular GH-receptors in a concentration-dependent manner.

- The abundance of GHR messenger ribonucleic acid and protein, ... respectively, markedly increased with insulin treatment.

[So the more insulin that was used the more biosynthesis or creation of GH-receptors that occurred. Now these receptors while abundant were not necessarily moved to the surface of the cell nor where they activated. Just a pool of GHRs was created.]

CAVEAT: Parts of the GH-Receptor can move to the nucleus and mediate gene expression. See the wonderful post that follows on "Growth Hormone Receptor structure, post-biogenesis behavior and degradation"
- It increased surface GHRs in a biphasic manner, with a peak response at 10 nmol/L, and modulated GH-induced Janus kinase-2 phosphorylation in parallel with expression of surface GHRs.

[So insulin increases the number of GH-receptors that make it to the cell surface AND increase the "intensity" of activation...but up to a point. After that point is reached insulin begins to hinder both the number of GH-receptors and "intensity" of activation"]

To quote from the study on this point:

Insulin induced a concentration-dependent increase in GHR biosynthesis, but simultaneously inhibited surface translocation. However, the net effect of reducing receptor surface availability only occurred at concentrations greater than 10 nmol/L, a concentration causing 70% inhibition of surface translocation. These data suggest that up-regulation of surface GHRs can occur with as little as 30% of intracellular receptors available for translocation to the cell surface. At concentrations above 10 nmol/L, the inhibitory effect of insulin on surface translocation overrides the compensatory effect of a 4- to 5-fold increase in receptor biosynthesis.

[So this means that insulin increases GH-receptors by 400-500% but that as insulin rises it reduces the number of those GH-receptors that make it to the surface and are active. There is a point at which insulin begins to reduce the benefit of this GH-receptor creation. That point is 10 nmol/L of insulin. Just prior to that point insulin has inhibited substantially the translocation of GH-Receptors but the increased quantity made up for it and created an overall net benefit.]

So the problem becomes how to translate that pivot point (10 nmol/L) into a number we can use.

From: Correspondence Letter Regarding Article by von Lewinski et al, "Insulin Causes [Ca2+]i-Dependent and [Ca2+]i-Independent Positive Inotropic Effects in Failing Human Myocardium", Chih-Hsueng Hsu, MD; Cheng-I Lin, PhD; Jeng Wei, MD, Circulation. 2005;112:e367

...we find that "3 IU/L, equivalent to 20 nmol/L" ...so 10 nmol/L is equivalent to 1.5 IU/L

From Wiki Answers  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_l...an_beings_have

...we find that humans have 5-6 litres of blood in general.

So 5 x 1.5 = 7.5IU
So 6 x 1.5 = 9IU

Therefore the point at which the amount of insulin in plasma becomes a negative rather then a positive is approximately 7.5 to 9 IUs.

So to arrive at a net benefit an insulin amount below that threshold point such as 5-6 ius is desirabl

Jizmo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2855
  • getbigbrah
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2015, 05:10:48 AM »
very interesting study! thanks for sharing

this ONLY translates to GH output though
not the effectiveness of insulin in general (where i think the actual benefits only start at 10+ iu)

it would also be different when exogenous GH is present i guess

but theoretically you could use insulin at lower dosages to increase GH output... i think i read that when you go hypo GH is also secreted.
sooo theoretically a low dose of insulin that makes your blood sugar drop low (and only at that point you eat) could actually cause a decent GH increase.

id also like to know if this translates 1:1 to us

for some reason my hands go numb much more often at night since i started using insulin
that has always been an indicator for higher GH levels for me since it only ever happens when im on GH peps

oni

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2015, 03:04:02 PM »
very interesting study! thanks for sharing

this ONLY translates to GH output though
not the effectiveness of insulin in general (where i think the actual benefits only start at 10+ iu)

it would also be different when exogenous GH is present i guess

but theoretically you could use insulin at lower dosages to increase GH output... i think i read that when you go hypo GH is also secreted.
sooo theoretically a low dose of insulin that makes your blood sugar drop low (and only at that point you eat) could actually cause a decent GH increase.

id also like to know if this translates 1:1 to us

for some reason my hands go numb much more often at night since i started using insulin
that has always been an indicator for higher GH levels for me since it only ever happens when im on GH peps

Yeah you should be able to time it or use blended slin so that you get the best of both worlds.
Pre-workout I'd use fast acting humalog and then a slow acting slin post workout that worked throughout the night.
I bought a 70/30 blend and I going by the peak graphs, 20ui an hour before training seems just about ideal. If you need more slin then you could stack it with whatever dose of humalog as well pre-workout

ritch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10673
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2015, 04:47:46 PM »
if there is a gh benefit the carbs eaten to not die will probably ruin what we are all hoping that could mean...
?

ritch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10673
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2015, 04:49:00 PM »
Damn in quebec they sell it with no script for 33$ the 10ml vial

even better, go to diabetesexpress.com and order it, have it delievered, no hassle at all.
?

ritch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10673
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2015, 04:52:38 PM »
I'll have carbs in me. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. You also just guessed my previous history entirely

Don't wanna argue but here is what you wrote and I answered based on that. I'm supposed to know your entire history now, lol? C'mon man, can't expect me to know that or blame me for replying as I did as you don't fill me in on much.

I got myself some of the Humulin 70/30 insulin online. 1000ui of it and it was very cheap!
I looked up the peak times of it I will be doing the following protocol.

Training 4 days a week, training days only.
Fats + protein in the AM
Protein only lunch like chicken breast + veg
Carb meal like rice at 2-3pm on my last break at work
20ui shot at 4pm
Shake at 4:45pm (protein, dextrose, creatine)
Leave work at 5pm, drive to gym, stretch and roll out my muscles
Start training at 5:30
Drink another shake at 6pm
Finish training by 7-7:30
Get home by 7:45, cook and eat protein + carb dinner like chicken with rice
?

oni

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2015, 10:01:29 PM »
if there is a gh benefit the carbs eaten to not die will probably ruin what we are all hoping that could mean...

No it won't, the pituitary will still dump gh post workout.
If you take gh as well, even better. Even ghrp2 would work ok

oni

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Slin without GH
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2015, 01:32:32 AM »
So my insulin arrived today.
I took 20ui and drove to the gym. My diet had been protein only all day. I ate 3% lean beef that was cooked without oil
I had with me 2L of water with 45g of sugar in it, 6g leucine, 4g alanine, 3g glycine and 10g glutamine.

Got to the gym about 10 minutes post shot and warmed up on the recumbent bike. Did 20 minutes of cardio keeping the HR around 150. Got a crazy pump! I delayed drinking as long as possible to gauge response. I trained legs with fairly high volume but really just going for the biggest pump. I got to about an hour post shot before I felt like I wanted to drink some of my shake or whatever you'd call that.

I ended up drinking around about half of it then went home and ate some white fish with maybe 200-250g of pumpkin and an onion that I again fried without oil. Did not feel hypo at any point. I think this 70/30 mixture is ideal pre-workout and very safe. The pump and vascularity was crazy! Not as good as the novorapid though! But still very good and only one pre-workout shot needed.

I think next time I'll do this I'll take the shot an hour to 45 minutes before I leave work and then drink half of my "shake" on the way to the gym and then the rest of it while I train.