Author Topic: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution  (Read 5090 times)

Al Doggity

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Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« on: January 05, 2015, 08:20:10 AM »
http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/grand-juror-sues-mcculloch-says-he-mischaracterized-wilson-case

Cliffs:

  • Grand Juror sues because he/she feels the prosecution was dishonest about why jury did not bring charges.
  • Juror believes case wrongly focused on victim and that legal standards were conveyed in a muddled manner
  • Prosecution never recommended a charge, but gave jury thousands of pages of evidence- an unusual tactic in grand jury hearings

Prosecution earlier admitted that they were aware at least one witness for Darren Wilson was obviously lying, but let her testify anyway.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 08:23:17 AM »
Oh and when and if there was a trial w the burden of proof BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT standard applied - Wilson was going to ever get convicted?


F brown - that thug and pos brought his own fate upon himself. 

youandme

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 09:11:15 AM »
Good luck on that law suit. Unless there was some type of duress outside influence it's going to get thrown out. It makes that juror look like a fool. Ha, on top of that it's not even the prosecutors decision to deny someone the right to testify for an individual even if they lie about having knowledge of the events....the P will later discredit the witness, during trial.
If anything this GJ was tilted against the officer. The P even allowed the defense to submit evidence (lying witnesses, etc.)

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 12:39:55 PM »
Who cares? 

Other than Al Sharpton, who will certainly be standing next to this person if they are successful. 

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 12:52:31 PM »
Who cares? 

Other than Al Sharpton, who will certainly be standing next to this person if they are successful. 

It's pretty obvious that the prosecution did their best to make sure the case couldn't go forward. Wilson wasn't even cross-examined when he was on the stand. He simply talked without interruption. I'd definitely be interested to hear how different the actual process was from what the prosecution describes.

youandme

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 01:06:18 PM »
It's pretty obvious that the prosecution did their best to make sure the case couldn't go forward. Wilson wasn't even cross-examined when he was on the stand. He simply talked without interruption. I'd definitely be interested to hear how different the actual process was from what the prosecution describes.
It's a grand jury, not a trial.
If you knew how the grand jury process worked, then you would know that the prosecution showed every piece of evidence even those pieces of evidence that were nothing but lies.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 01:06:26 PM »
It's pretty obvious that the prosecution did their best to make sure the case couldn't go forward. Wilson wasn't even cross-examined when he was on the stand. He simply talked without interruption. I'd definitely be interested to hear how different the actual process was from what the prosecution describes.

This doesn't change the fact Brown smoked dope, robbed a store, assaulted a cop, tried to take the cop's gun, and charged the cop.  If this wasn't a racially charged case, it probably wouldn't even have gone to a grand jury.  

youandme

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 01:09:28 PM »
This doesn't change the fact Brown smoked dope, robbed a store, assaulted a cop, tried to take the cop's gun, and charged the cop.  If this wasn't a racially charged case, it probably wouldn't even have gone to a grand jury.  
The forensics showing the gun shots were close range and from a struggle, numerous fabricated eyewitnesses, a separate DOJ autopsy, etc.
No way this should have even gone before a grand jury with the amount of evidence against the criminal.

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 02:07:05 PM »
It's a grand jury, not a trial.
If you knew how the grand jury process worked, then you would know that the prosecution showed every piece of evidence even those pieces of evidence that were nothing but lies.


Nope, because the prosecution actually cross-examined other "witnesses".

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »
Nope, because the prosecution actually cross-examined other "witnesses".

Must have been those "witnesses" who claimed Brown was shot in the back.

The officer's statements and testimony were consistent with the forensic evidence.

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 03:03:41 PM »
Must have been those "witnesses" who claimed Brown was shot in the back.

The officer's statements and testimony were consistent with the forensic evidence.
Like him being punched in the face so hard he thought he was going to black out?

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 03:12:29 PM »
Like him being punched in the face so hard he thought he was going to black out?


Absolutely.

Skip8282

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 03:34:30 PM »

I doubt it would change anything but why shouldn't grand jurors be allowed to speak in a presumably, relatively free country.  It adds openness, transparency, and legitimacy to the process.

What's the justification that it's so important that it overrides the persons first Amendment right?

Besides, the prosecutors released all the data.  It clearly seems a legit shoot.  Why can't they talk about it?


240 is Back

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 03:36:20 PM »
I have never seen a man so viciously beaten.  A beating that bad, one cannot tell 20 feet from 150 feet.


Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 03:44:32 PM »
I doubt it would change anything but why shouldn't grand jurors be allowed to speak in a presumably, relatively free country.  It adds openness, transparency, and legitimacy to the process.

What's the justification that it's so important that it overrides the persons first Amendment right?

Besides, the prosecutors released all the data.  It clearly seems a legit shoot.  Why can't they talk about it?



Here is one explanation:

Secrecy
Grand jury proceedings are secret. No judge is present; the proceedings are led by a prosecutor;[16] and the defendant has no right to present his case or (in many instances) to be informed of the proceedings at all. While court reporters usually transcribe the proceedings, the records are sealed. The case for such secrecy was unanimously upheld by the Burger Court in Douglas Oil Co. of Cal. v. Petrol Stops Northwest, 441 US 211 (1979).[17][18] The dissenting opinion was joined by Justices Burger and Stewart but concurred with the Court's opinion as to the importance and rationale of grand jury secrecy. Writing for the Court, Justice Powell found that "if preindictment proceedings were made public, many prospective witnesses would be hesitant to come forward voluntarily"; "witnesses who appeared before the grand jury would be less likely to testify fully and frankly"; and "there also would be the risk that those about to be indicted would flee, or would try to influence individual grand jurors". Further, "persons who are accused but exonerated by the grand jury [should] not be held up to public ridicule".[17]

United States v. Procter & Gamble Co., 356 US 677 (1958), permitted the disclosure of grand jury transcripts under certain restrictions: "a private party seeking to obtain grand jury transcripts must demonstrate that 'without the transcript a defense would be greatly prejudiced or that without reference to it an injustice would be done'" and must make its requests "with particularity".[17] Further, First Amendment protections generally permit the witnesses summoned by a grand jury to discuss their testimony, although Dennis v. United States, 384 US 855 (1966), found that such public discussion permits release of the transcripts of their actual testimony.[17]

The Jencks Act, 18 U.S.C. § 3500, requires the government to disclose to the defense any statements made by the accused to the grand jury, and, with respect to non-party witnesses, that after a witness has testified on direct examination at trial, any statement made to the grand jury by such witness be disclosed to the defense.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States#Secrecy

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 03:50:47 PM »
Here is one explanation:



This stuff wouldn't even apply to this case. Some grand jury transcripts were released and this isn't about grand jury proceedings it's about the grand jurors being able to speak to the media.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2015, 03:55:17 PM »
This stuff wouldn't even apply to this case. Some grand jury transcripts were released and this isn't about grand jury proceedings it's about the grand jurors being able to speak to the media.

The policy is in place for the greater good, not for one specific case.

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2015, 04:02:57 PM »
The policy is in place for the greater good, not for one specific case.


No, you missed the point. What you posted described why grand juries are secret, not why grand jurors are prevented from speaking about the case afterwards. It's not practiced uniformly by states.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2015, 04:10:25 PM »

No, you missed the point. What you posted described why grand juries are secret, not why grand jurors are prevented from speaking about the case afterwards. It's not practiced uniformly by states.

What??  Some pretty retarded logic there.  The reason they cannot speak is because the proceedings are secret. 

Skip8282

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2015, 04:12:56 PM »

No, you missed the point. What you posted described why grand juries are secret, not why grand jurors are prevented from speaking about the case afterwards. It's not practiced uniformly by states.



Agreed.  I can understand keeping the proceedings secret (though I'm not big on it), but once over I'm not clear why a grand juror can't comment.  Hell, even if they say something to the effect of they can't call out witnesses, etc...that might be fine.  They can just talk about the process, what they felt was right/wrong, etc.


tonymctones

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2015, 04:36:05 PM »
LOL continue to grab at straws morons, this wont go anywhere and Wilson is rightfully a free man.

Skip8282

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 04:44:23 PM »
LOL continue to grab at straws morons, this wont go anywhere and Wilson is rightfully a free man.


No, I don't think it will go anywhere, and Wilson is probably a victim in the sense that he had to quit his job.  But I'm not comfortable with the whole secrecy surrounding the grand jury.  At least not once it's over.

Beach posted some good reasons to keep it secret during, but once done, I would think it should be ok to speak about (within certain bounds as I noted above).


tonymctones

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 04:48:20 PM »

No, I don't think it will go anywhere, and Wilson is probably a victim in the sense that he had to quit his job.  But I'm not comfortable with the whole secrecy surrounding the grand jury.  At least not once it's over.

Beach posted some good reasons to keep it secret during, but once done, I would think it should be ok to speak about (within certain bounds as I noted above).


for certain people (albert probably included) nothing that will or could come out about the grand jury will ever be enough. I can gree that the process should be more public but you would certainly have to leave names out especially in a case like this.

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 04:50:53 PM »
for certain people (albert probably included) nothing that will or could come out about the grand jury will ever be enough. I can gree that the process should be more public but you would certainly have to leave names out especially in a case like this.

Retardo, you can barely manage to speak for yourself in a coherent way. Don't speak for others.

Al Doggity

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Re: Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2015, 04:52:08 PM »
What??  Some pretty retarded logic there.  The reason they cannot speak is because the proceedings are secret. 

The basis of the lawsuit is that the prosecution HAS been speaking to the media and misrepresenting what was presented to and concluded by the jury.