Author Topic: baseball hof 2015 class. (Read 10040 times)

funk51 · « **on:** January 06, 2015, 12:15:02 PM »

randy johnson, pedro martinez, john smoltz and craig biggio all in.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2015, 04:21:15 PM »

Missing Bonds, Clemens, Raines, Piazza

funk51 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:20:00 AM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on January 06, 2015, 04:21:15 PM

Missing Bonds, Clemens, Raines, Piazza

piazza almost made it 69.9 percent close to the 75 percent needed. in the projections he was 76.6 but of course that doesn't count. next year it should be griffey jr and mike pepperoni ouazza. on a related note don mattingly off the ballot 15 years have passed.

WoogsRaven · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2015, 06:26:00 AM »

Did Edgar Martinez get left out because he played DH, primarily?

Fantastic hitter his entire career.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:02:55 AM »

Quote from: WoogsRaven on January 08, 2015, 06:26:00 AM

Did Edgar Martinez get left out because he played DH, primarily?

Fantastic hitter his entire career.

Being a DH does not help his cause.

His numbers are really good. But his cumulative stats don't feel HoF worthy. Quick glance shows 8 peak seasons, with other pretty good ones over a span.....who knows?

andreisdaman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:20:30 AM »

Ken Griffey Jr will definitely make it......Piazza will as well..his stats are too noteworthy to ignore and although some suspect that he did steroids there was never any proof of such....I'm surprised they haven't put in Jeff Bagwell yet..but he has the styeroid taint as well...

Does anyone think there will be another 300 game winner???...I don't think so....I think winning 240-250 will be the new 300

Grape Ape · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:27:39 AM »

I would think 300 wins is unlikely, but Kershaw might have a shot.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2015, 08:31:36 AM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on January 08, 2015, 07:27:39 AM

I would think 300 wins is unlikely, but Kershaw might have a shot.

My son says the same thing....If Kershaw does it he will DEFINITELY be the last

funk51 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:05:25 AM »

2 years ago it looked like c c sabatha had the best shot but after a 14-13 year in 2013 and an injury year in 2014 it doesn't look so good.

funk51 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:15:09 AM »

in a 2011 bill james's top five with a chance were= roy halladay 34 yo-188 wins-49 percent chance. cc sabatha 30-176 wins 48 percent chance. justin verlander-28-107 wins- 31 percent chance. cliff lee-32- 119 wins -24 percent chance. and dan haren-30- 107 wins- 19 percent chance. didn't look good then or now.

funk51 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:19:16 AM »

Quote from: funk51 on January 08, 2015, 09:15:09 AM

in a 2011 bill james's top five with a chance were= roy halladay 34 yo-188 wins-49 percent chance. cc sabatha 30-176 wins 48 percent chance. justin verlander-28-107 wins- 31 percent chance. cliff lee-32- 119 wins -24 percent chance. and dan haren-30- 107 wins- 19 percent chance. didn't look good then or now.

as of now halladay retired with 203 wins. sabatha has 208 wins, verlander 152 wins, lee-143 wins, and haren 142.

funk51 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:27:50 AM »

to take it one step more kershaw has 98 wins at 26 two similars were clemens and seaver at 26 they both had 95 wins and ended up over 300. palmer at 26 had 100 wins and fell short. bumgarner of the giants actually has 6 more wins at 24 years of age than kershaw 67 for madison to kershaw's 61.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:31:40 AM »

Quote from: funk51 on January 08, 2015, 09:27:50 AM

to take it one step more kershaw has 98 wins at 26 two similars were clemens and seaver at 26 they both had 95 wins and ended up over 300. palmer at 26 had 100 wins and fell short. bumgarner of the giants actually has 6 more wins at 24 years of age than kershaw 67 for madison to kershaw's 61.

I realy think Tom Seaver is the best pitcher in history if you take out old timers like Chrity Matthewson and Cy Young

Option D · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2015, 09:49:44 AM »

So...Donny Baseball?....we just forget about him i guess..

Im not even a Yankees fan and i know how full of shit this is.

funk51 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:05:23 AM »

Quote from: Option D on January 08, 2015, 09:49:44 AM

So...Donny Baseball?....we just forget about him i guess..

Im not even a Yankees fan and i know how full of shit this is.

his career was similar to kirby pucket who is in the hall. pucket's career was cut short by glaucoma. and donniy baseball's career was diminished and cut short by back problems. he was the man for 6 straight years.

Option D · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:13:29 AM »

Quote from: funk51 on January 08, 2015, 10:05:23 AM

his career was similar to kirby pucket who is in the hall. pucket's career was cut short by glaucoma. and donniy baseball's career was diminished and cut short by back problems. he was the man for 6 straight years.

he was super clutch

6 Grand Slams in one season. Amazing

i swear i dont understand HOF sometimes

andreisdaman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:27:54 AM »

Quote from: funk51 on January 08, 2015, 10:05:23 AM

his career was similar to kirby pucket who is in the hall. pucket's career was cut short by glaucoma. and donniy baseball's career was diminished and cut short by back problems. he was the man for 6 straight years.

I don't think his career was HOF caliber though...he was very good however....what do you think about Jason Giambi?...I say no...Jorge Posada?...not sure

WoogsRaven · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2015, 11:01:02 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on January 08, 2015, 10:27:54 AM

I don't think his career was HOF caliber though...he was very good however....what do you think about Jason Giambi?...I say no...Jorge Posada?...not sure

Guys like Bonds, Bagwell, Giambi, Gonzalez, Walker were obviously juiced to the gills and don't deserve to go in. True, steroids don't make you hit the ball better but the advantages in recovery times enables you to play more games and thus, put up higher numbers in volume. Giambi was a beady-eyed shithead anyway

funk51 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2015, 11:33:03 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on January 08, 2015, 10:27:54 AM

I don't think his career was HOF caliber though...he was very good however....what do you think about Jason Giambi?...I say no...Jorge Posada?...not sure

posada won't career somewhat like hof" er gary carter but carter had more home runs, runs scored, rbi's and over 2000 hits. posada low 1600 hits. giambi won't because of reputation and era, he is similar to delgado, canseco who are completely off the ballot. in old days 400 hrs got you in not anymore.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:14:27 PM »

Quote from: funk51 on January 08, 2015, 10:05:23 AM

his career was similar to kirby pucket who is in the hall. pucket's career was cut short by glaucoma. and donniy baseball's career was diminished and cut short by back problems. he was the man for 6 straight years.

Donny Baseball was my favorite player of that era.

But even I don't think he should be in the Hall - same for Puckett and Jim Rice.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:17:12 PM »

Quote from: WoogsRaven on January 08, 2015, 11:01:02 AM

Guys like Bonds, Bagwell, Giambi, Gonzalez, Walker were obviously juiced to the gills and don't deserve to go in. True, steroids don't make you hit the ball better but the advantages in recovery times enables you to play more games and thus, put up higher numbers in volume. Giambi was a beady-eyed shithead anyway

I think they do. For two reasons:

1. The Hall celebrates baseball history. Good or bad, this is a big part of it, and these guys resurrected baseball when it screwed up with the strike.
2. So many others used steroids too, but nobody did what Bonds did. Not even close. I'm more bothered by those who got off scott free because they weren't as good, than getting upset over those who did use.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:18:05 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on January 08, 2015, 12:14:27 PM

Donny Baseball was my favorite player of that era.

But even I don't think he should be in the Hall - same for Puckett and Jim Rice.

Pucket and Rice , I say yes....Mattingly no......A case can be made for Carlos Delgado but I think there was steroid suspicions with him.....Alex Rodriguez will make it to heaven before he gets to the HOF..and heaven doesn't look too likely at this point...

WoogsRaven · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on January 08, 2015, 12:17:12 PM

I think they do. For two reasons:

1. The Hall celebrates baseball history. Good or bad, this is a big part of it, and these guys resurrected baseball when it screwed up with the strike.
2. So many others used steroids too, but nobody did what Bonds did. Not even close. I'm more bothered by those who got off scott free because they weren't as good, than getting upset over those who did use.

Forget history, how about credibility?

How do you know what Bonds was taking was above and beyond anyone else? You don't think McGwire and Sosa were taking just as much shit? McGwire hit 70 + 65 homers at 35 and 36 years old. Just like Bonds hit 73 at 37 years old. Baggs, Caminiti, McGwire, Sosa, Walker,Galarraga, Luis and Juan Gonzales etc....all those top power guys were on growth hormones, anabolics and recovery agents.

The steroid era brought the long ball back and reinvigorated plenty of fan bases, but I don't think that warrants spots for all of those players in the hall based on that merit. But I see where you're coming from.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2015, 05:37:08 PM »

You misinterpreted my post.

I mean nobody did what Bonds did in the context of production. I'm saying they all took steroids, but nobody put up the numbers he did. He was so much better than anyone else, steroids or not. He belongs in the Hall.

WoogsRaven · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2015, 06:57:44 PM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on January 08, 2015, 05:37:08 PM

You misinterpreted my post.

I mean nobody did what Bonds did in the context of production. I'm saying they all took steroids, but nobody put up the numbers he did. He was so much better than anyone else, steroids or not. He belongs in the Hall.

I gotcha. And yes, I agree. Bonds does belong.