Meadows-picture of health-cruise cycle

[SaintAnger]

I don't understand it either. One of the few I would listen and learn from about training.

Because using drugs has nothing to do with him as a person. 

[forillagorilla]

And like I said in my edit, he could easily maintain his size on that.

Thats exactly right Coach.. It does NOT take the asinine dosages these kids spew... Are there morons at every level that abuse?? Of course but when you have the right GENETICS it doesn't take as much...
The funny thing is that when idiots dispute genetics and talk about how someone looks clean versus how they look enhanced - it rei forces their ignorance...
The genetics that we are talking about is the genetic response to gear!! When I was younger I admit that OMG I used aas... I took ONE cc a week of 200mg enanthate (test) and literally grew so fast it hurt.. My heaviest use when I was 5'8" at 245 lean enough for abs with veins everywhere - I was on a little over ONE gram a week TOTAL!!!   I couldn't give a shit how much someone uses and I dont judge... I may disagree or think its dangerous but  a grown sss man can do what he wants with his body and why the fuck would I care??? But it seems like some guys get butt hurt because they take 5 grams and it just doesn't seem to get them there and they are for some insane reason jealous or something... I don't get that gay ass shit.. There is nothing wrong with not having the genes for bodybuilding... I was a pretty damn good basketball player and made all district and third team all state but hey - I had to accept I wasn't going to play that any higher level.. Played football but was basically practice team.. Was as strong as hell but there were dudes that never fucking lifted and were 6 feet close to 300 running 5 in the 40... What could I do about that??? Nothing- and would have acting like a jealous pussy have helped? No it would have made me a loser... I had to lighten WAY up to be combat ready and had to scale back twice because I was not nearly as battle efficient at a higher level of muscularity ..

Point is that as much of a guy as I act like I genuinely dont dislike anyone here.. I go off because I hate seeing people act weak... Navy Mike maybe I totally misread you.. I got a bad taste because of all the $$ that it seemed you were milking.. But I wi be honest - I am not as informed on things like PTSD... It wasn't talked about much when I was in and I guess the sick shit I saw and did fucked with my head and I just felt like I had to suck it up and deal - so maybe I am guilty of being a little jealous that no one seemed to give a shit about us.. And if so that shameful and I apologize... My father would shoot me in the leg or ass for that (I am only partially in jest there - my pops is a hard mother fucker)
I gotta stop posting man - this fucking place get addictive.. There is nothing bkdgbuilding related here but there ARE a shot load of characters...

[LittleJ]

I wish I could use but I'm afraid my liver won't hold up. I always wondered if only test safe to use. Meds I'm using fucked up my estradiol and test levels

[Belieber]

Thats exactly right Coach.. It does NOT take the asinine dosages these kids spew... Are there morons at every level that abuse?? Of course but when you have the right GENETICS it doesn't take as much...
The funny thing is that when idiots dispute genetics and talk about how someone looks clean versus how they look enhanced - it rei forces their ignorance...
The genetics that we are talking about is the genetic response to gear!! When I was younger I admit that OMG I used aas... I took ONE cc a week of 200mg enanthate (test) and literally grew so fast it hurt.. My heaviest use when I was 5'8" at 245 lean enough for abs with veins everywhere - I was on a little over ONE gram a week TOTAL!!!   I couldn't give a shit how much someone uses and I dont judge... I may disagree or think its dangerous but  a grown sss man can do what he wants with his body and why the fuck would I care??? But it seems like some guys get butt hurt because they take 5 grams and it just doesn't seem to get them there and they are for some insane reason jealous or something... I don't get that gay ass shit.. There is nothing wrong with not having the genes for bodybuilding... I was a pretty damn good basketball player and made all district and third team all state but hey - I had to accept I wasn't going to play that any higher level.. Played football but was basically practice team.. Was as strong as hell but there were dudes that never fucking lifted and were 6 feet close to 300 running 5 in the 40... What could I do about that??? Nothing- and would have acting like a jealous pussy have helped? No it would have made me a loser... I had to lighten WAY up to be combat ready and had to scale back twice because I was not nearly as battle efficient at a higher level of muscularity ..

Point is that as much of a guy as I act like I genuinely dont dislike anyone here.. I go off because I hate seeing people act weak... Navy Mike maybe I totally misread you.. I got a bad taste because of all the $$ that it seemed you were milking.. But I wi be honest - I am not as informed on things like PTSD... It wasn't talked about much when I was in and I guess the sick shit I saw and did fucked with my head and I just felt like I had to suck it up and deal - so maybe I am guilty of being a little jealous that no one seemed to give a shit about us.. And if so that shameful and I apologize... My father would shoot me in the leg or ass for that (I am only partially in jest there - my pops is a hard mother fucker)
I gotta stop posting man - this fucking place get addictive.. There is nothing bkdgbuilding related here but there ARE a shot load of characters...

LOL - no you didn't lil fella.

[Competitor 9]

Thats exactly right Coach.. It does NOT take the asinine dosages these kids spew... Are there morons at every level that abuse?? Of course but when you have the right GENETICS it doesn't take as much...
The funny thing is that when idiots dispute genetics and talk about how someone looks clean versus how they look enhanced - it rei forces their ignorance...
The genetics that we are talking about is the genetic response to gear!! When I was younger I admit that OMG I used aas... I took ONE cc a week of 200mg enanthate (test) and literally grew so fast it hurt.. My heaviest use when I was 5'8" at 245 lean enough for abs with veins everywhere - I was on a little over ONE gram a week TOTAL!!!   I couldn't give a shit how much someone uses and I dont judge... I may disagree or think its dangerous but  a grown sss man can do what he wants with his body and why the fuck would I care??? But it seems like some guys get butt hurt because they take 5 grams and it just doesn't seem to get them there and they are for some insane reason jealous or something... I don't get that gay ass shit.. There is nothing wrong with not having the genes for bodybuilding... I was a pretty damn good basketball player and made all district and third team all state but hey - I had to accept I wasn't going to play that any higher level.. Played football but was basically practice team.. Was as strong as hell but there were dudes that never fucking lifted and were 6 feet close to 300 running 5 in the 40... What could I do about that??? Nothing- and would have acting like a jealous pussy have helped? No it would have made me a loser... I had to lighten WAY up to be combat ready and had to scale back twice because I was not nearly as battle efficient at a higher level of muscularity ..

Point is that as much of a guy as I act like I genuinely dont dislike anyone here.. I go off because I hate seeing people act weak... Navy Mike maybe I totally misread you.. I got a bad taste because of all the $$ that it seemed you were milking.. But I wi be honest - I am not as informed on things like PTSD... It wasn't talked about much when I was in and I guess the sick shit I saw and did fucked with my head and I just felt like I had to suck it up and deal - so maybe I am guilty of being a little jealous that no one seemed to give a shit about us.. And if so that shameful and I apologize... My father would shoot me in the leg or ass for that (I am only partially in jest there - my pops is a hard mother fucker)
I gotta stop posting man - this fucking place get addictive.. There is nothing bkdgbuilding related here but there ARE a shot load of characters...

Hey man no worries everyone is different and process thing differently then others I can fault you in the way you feel about somthing..  PTSD and service related depression is a terrible thing, I've lost a few friends to it. But it's somthing you got to live with. Every buddy's got issues and I mean everyone. You just to to remeber someone always has it worse. Just life your life to be happy, if bodybuilding does that or if being great at what you do for a living gives your pride then by all means do it!   

[pellius]

Meadows said 400 test and 4iu GH. That's "not much" and could easily maintain size on that.

No, that's not much at all. I don't know if everyone can "easily" maintain his level of development on that. Of course it depends on how long he is on that maintenance dose. John is a very, very advance bodybuilder and I am sure he used a lot, lot more to achieve that level of size and conditioning. Maybe he could maintain that level on 400 test for maybe a couple of months before deconditioning sets in.

Of course I, nor anybody else, can know for sure but I also base this on both personal experience and the experience of others. A now pro bber said it was his friendship with Kai Greene that opened his eyes to how much it took to be a pro let alone a top level pro. He now uses 7 grams of Test a week. And that's just Test. Other anabolics are liberally added. It was dramatically increasing his use that was the turning point and allowed him to turn pro. A goal he had set for himself and was determined to reach it at all costs.

Every advance bbering have I have talk to and read has confessed that at the advance level they have maxed out on training, nutrition and rest. No training or nutritional program will do anything to advance at the top levels. It then becomes a matter of hormones and peptides and what you can afford.

Of course this is in regard to gaining additional muscle mass. When it comes to conditioning, defined here as low body fat and dryness (not athletic conditioning and performance which is vastly different and more your concern) then diet plays a much bigger role.

[Competitor 9]

No, that's not much at all. I don't know if everyone can "easily" maintain his level of development on that. Of course it depends on how long he is on that maintenance dose. John is a very, very advance bodybuilder and I am sure he used a lot, lot more to achieve that level of size and conditioning. Maybe he could maintain that level on 400 test for maybe a couple of months before deconditioning sets in.

Of course I, nor anybody else, can know for sure but I also base this on both personal experience and the experience of others. A now pro bber said it was his friendship with Kai Greene that opened his eyes to how much it took to be a pro let alone a top level pro. He now uses 7 grams of Test a week. And that's just Test. Other anabolics are liberally added. It was dramatically increasing his use that was the turning point and allowed him to turn pro. A goal he had set for himself and was determined to reach it at all costs.

Every advance bbering have I have talk to and read has confessed that at the advance level they have maxed out on training, nutrition and rest. No training or nutritional program will do anything to advance at the top levels. It then becomes a matter of hormones and peptides and what you can afford.

Of course this is in regard to gaining additional muscle mass. When it comes to conditioning, defined here as low body fat and dryness (not athletic conditioning and performance which is vastly different and more your concern) then diet plays a much bigger role.

Funny you mention that I also heard from a guy that knows guy that the guys uses massive I mean massive amounts of drugs. 

Like stated above I think it comes down to your genetic response to drugs. Are all the top pros shooting up tons of gear? Yes. But their response to the drugs determines just how many grams. 

 

[SaintAnger]

Instead of wondering why people doubt John Meadow's health, how about we discuss why ForillaGorilla and others lose their shit, start talking to themselves, etc over drug dosages?  Because they cannot handle it.

Fact:  YOU USE DRUGS.  No body cares about your superior genetics to respond positively to them.

Do you hear me or what?

[Bevo]

No, that's not much at all. I don't know if everyone can "easily" maintain his level of development on that. Of course it depends on how long he is on that maintenance dose. John is a very, very advance bodybuilder and I am sure he used a lot, lot more to achieve that level of size and conditioning. Maybe he could maintain that level on 400 test for maybe a couple of months before deconditioning sets in.

Of course I, nor anybody else, can know for sure but I also base this on both personal experience and the experience of others. A now pro bber said it was his friendship with Kai Greene that opened his eyes to how much it took to be a pro let alone a top level pro. He now uses 7 grams of Test a week. And that's just Test. Other anabolics are liberally added. It was dramatically increasing his use that was the turning point and allowed him to turn pro. A goal he had set for himself and was determined to reach it at all costs.

Every advance bbering have I have talk to and read has confessed that at the advance level they have maxed out on training, nutrition and rest. No training or nutritional program will do anything to advance at the top levels. It then becomes a matter of hormones and peptides and what you can afford.

Of course this is in regard to gaining additional muscle mass. When it comes to conditioning, defined here as low body fat and dryness (not athletic conditioning and performance which is vastly different and more your concern) then diet plays a much bigger role.

X2 at least someone gets it

[BigRo]

No, that's not much at all. I don't know if everyone can "easily" maintain his level of development on that. Of course it depends on how long he is on that maintenance dose. John is a very, very advance bodybuilder and I am sure he used a lot, lot more to achieve that level of size and conditioning. Maybe he could maintain that level on 400 test for maybe a couple of months before deconditioning sets in.

Of course I, nor anybody else, can know for sure but I also base this on both personal experience and the experience of others. A now pro bber said it was his friendship with Kai Greene that opened his eyes to how much it took to be a pro let alone a top level pro. He now uses 7 grams of Test a week. And that's just Test. Other anabolics are liberally added. It was dramatically increasing his use that was the turning point and allowed him to turn pro. A goal he had set for himself and was determined to reach it at all costs.

Every advance bbering have I have talk to and read has confessed that at the advance level they have maxed out on training, nutrition and rest. No training or nutritional program will do anything to advance at the top levels. It then becomes a matter of hormones and peptides and what you can afford.

Of course this is in regard to gaining additional muscle mass. When it comes to conditioning, defined here as low body fat and dryness (not athletic conditioning and performance which is vastly different and more your concern) then diet plays a much bigger role.

What about the theory of diminishing returns when it comes to test? Beyond 2-3gms surely its all side effects?

[pellius]

Look, morons.  The dude is on DRUGS.  It doesn't matter how much or how little or when he takes more.  He's still using some dangerous shit - insulin, GH, peptides, and steroids.

He looks like it, too.

What baffles me is WHY does he do it? 

Hormones are not drugs. Insulin, HGH and AAS has done a lot to enhance a person's quality of life. They were developed for a reason and it wasn't for bodybuilding. It's the abuse that's harmful. But abuse of anything is harmful. Probably the most abused substance in this country (USA) is food.

All of life is a matter of degrees. It matters profoundly "how much or how little" one takes.

[pellius]

What about the theory of diminishing returns when it comes to test? Beyond 2-3gms surely its all side effects?

Of course there are diminishing returns. That applies to everything. How much more muscle could Ronnie have possibly put on no matter what he took? But the point is when you reach a standstill at x amount of grams and have to take exponentially more to eek out a bit more lean muscle mass then what choice do you have if you want to be number one? Your choice is eeking out that few more pounds or even ounces or nothing.

It depends on what you want in life and how far you want to go.

[Method101]

If I looked that red in the face I would probably turn vegan and get into yoga and abandon the bodybuilding lifestyle forever lol.

[DroppingPlates]

If I looked that red in the face I would probably turn vegan and get into yoga and abandon the bodybuilding lifestyle forever lol.

And ending with a feminine body (minus the tits)? No thanks!

[Howard]

If the avatar pic is you - not terrible - as lean and probably as big as most natural guys know how to get.. But just because you have an aversion to AAS dont go look like a jealous bitch and badmouth the larger guys.. If you need some advice on getting bigger and a little leaner send me a PM -- no charge.. I won my first NPC show totally natural -- just wanted to move up to the heavies and eventually supers so had to dabble a little... You wouldn't believe how little it takes with proper genetics so won't go there but I can help you gain a physique you could at least be proud of instead of that my man...

I agree with you, on making gains with small amounts after  a solid natural foundation base.
I also competed and did just fine without any juice in regional NPC shows in my wt class.

The reality is , the vast majority of hardcore bodybuilders use AAS and many use extreme amounts.
So, it's no wonder that plenty of young bucks think drugs are very important in getting bigger and stronger.

To me it's similar to the modern bench shirts , competitive benchers now use.
These super-fiber shirts allow the top guys to bench 200-300 more lbs then they can without  one.
They can get quite defensive about  it too.
They often go on and on about how heavy the wt is and how you have to train hard and work with the shirt to learn the technique, etc.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Of course he could. The guy has a ton of mass and will not lose much of it at all if he cruises for a while.

This. I can't believe the rest of you fuckers believe someone will shrink to nothing and fall apart on those doses. Odds are you won't if you keep training and eating. So many stupid fucks without a clue in this thread.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

preach health by grassfed beef/healthy fats


but take G's of AAS and HGH


sorry... Im confused 

That's the whole fucking point. Eat those foods and follow a health oriented diet and AAS/HGH won't hurt your health nearly as bad. Less worrying about blood pressure, cholesterol being fucked, heart growth, etc.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Lotta people don't know that john has a big chunk of his intestines removed, this is partly why he remains so dry all the time...kind of a good thing for bodybuilding. . It fucks with his diet slightly, he has to eat more frequent smaller meals, always has to "void" post meal. Foods need to be easily digestible for quick gastric emptying.

John also hates Tren and doesn't touch the stuff. His body won't tolerate it, feels like shit on it. He's a VERY mild user and preaches hardcore training and nutrition more than anything. The guy is one of the healthier guys in the sport, he just looks like a troll.

^this above is all from a very close friend who works with John.

[heenok]

I think a lot of guys are missing the GH and SLIN part. With those two and a lot of food i dont think you need much gear
As he says save the tren, eq, orals etc for pre contest

[SuperTed]

Lotta people don't know that john has a big chunk of his intestines removed, this is partly why he remains so dry all the time...kind of a good thing for bodybuilding. . It fucks with his diet slightly, he has to eat more frequent smaller meals, always has to "void" post meal. Foods need to be easily digestible for quick gastric emptying.

John also hates Tren and doesn't touch the stuff. His body won't tolerate it, feels like shit on it. He's a VERY mild user and preaches hardcore training and nutrition more than anything. The guy is one of the healthier guys in the sport, he just looks like a troll.

^this above is all from a very close friend who works with John.

They all say this.

[Big Chiro Flex]

They all say this.

You don't know many top level guys then apparently.

[SuperTed]

You don't know many top level guys then apparently.

I don't even know one.

But whenever the top level guys talk about their drug usage to others, it appears that they rarely give the truth.
And Meadows is the same guy who claims to have gotten into contest shape "accidentally" and gained several pounds of stage weight just by taking a bio-test supplement.

[Henda]

Lotta people don't know that john has a big chunk of his intestines removed, this is partly why he remains so dry all the time...kind of a good thing for bodybuilding. . It fucks with his diet slightly, he has to eat more frequent smaller meals, always has to "void" post meal. Foods need to be easily digestible for quick gastric emptying.

John also hates Tren and doesn't touch the stuff. His body won't tolerate it, feels like shit on it. He's a VERY mild user and preaches hardcore training and nutrition more than anything. The guy is one of the healthier guys in the sport, he just looks like a troll.

^this above is all from a very close friend who works with John.

Had the same operation and this is true, it almost impossible to stay hydrated and body hardly absorbs salt.
Always enjoyed johns articles and now knowing what he's been through with the surgery shit have a good level of respect for the bloke.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I don't even know one.

But whenever the top level guys talk about their drug usage to others, it appears that they rarely give the truth.
And Meadows is the same guy who claims to have gotten into contest shape "accidentally" and gained several pounds of stage weight just by taking a bio-test supplement.

I've trained with some dudes that love bragging about the big doses they take...dummies 

[Big Chiro Flex]

Had the same operation and this is true, it almost impossible to stay hydrated and body hardly absorbs salt.
Always enjoyed johns articles and now knowing what he's been through with the surgery shit have a good level of respect for the bloke.

My buds who work with him love the guy and have nothing but good to say. He comes across the same in his vids as well.