NFL - Playoffs Jan 2015

[El Diablo Blanco]

The Colts are not a very good team...Denver's game plan and Manning being hurt made them look much better than they are...Pats probably could have laid 70 points on the Colts if they wanted to...I'd like to see Manning go play for the Texans for the next 2 years. And if he did, the Colts probably wouldn't make the playoffs. Texans would win that division...Would be great to see Manning go fuck with the owner of the Colts as he leads that defensive powerhouse, the Texans, to a division championship...

Manning will be an interesting story.  If his injuries are worse than reported he may just step away.  Don't see how he'll want to stay in Denver with a whole new coaching staff and his top two receivers who are RFA and the team is maxed out from last off season spending.
Texans if Clowney isn't done can be an insane defense but that microfracture took out a lot of players early.  Oden had that issue, Yao Ming and others.

[Bevo]

ESPN is not pro patriots. Not their people at least. Ray Lewis, Tom Jackson, Brunell....the list goes on and on. Yeah I know Bruschi works for them too but if you do the math their are a lot of very outspoken people that work for them that despise the patriots. TMZ sports and Jay Glazer are infinitely more credible, IMO.

This whole thing could easily be summed up by the following explanation:

1. Brady likes his balls at the low end of the specification range. Colts like there's on the high side or mid.
2. All balls dropped by some margin (some reports say 2 lbs which is a lot, another says 1 lb which isn't much at all) during the cold weather. Patriots were out of spec after the drop, but the colts were still in (while still dropping).

This whole "cheating reputation" is also very problematic. EVERY NFL team has cheated at one point or another, yet we don't start every discussion involving an issue on those teams with, "Well given their history...."

Except it wasn't even cold weather that day they played  

Is that how u like your balls too stud?

[tleilaxutank]

Except it wasn't even cold weather that day they played  

Is that how u like your balls too stud?

I was at the game, so don't lecture me on game conditions.

Boyle's Law, Stud. As long as they filled and tested at 68-75 and the temp was below that on the field, the psi would've dropped below specification.

[Grape Ape]

I was at the game, so don't lecture me on game conditions.

Boyle's Law, Stud. As long as they filled and tested at 68-75 and the temp was below that on the field, the psi would've dropped below specification.

So, if a temp drop of 18-25 degrees could lower the ball 2 psi from 12.5 to 10.5, what happens if the temperature is much colder - do the balls continue to lose pressure?

[The True Adonis]

Fucking grown children the lot of you. 

If everyone watching the super bowl suddenly vanished, I probably wouldn`t care.  Somehow everyone at the game and watching TV were vaporized instantly.  The world would be an amazing place after that.  I know an entire group of people would be lost, but the crime rates would surely be non-existent.

[blacken700]

a bowdion college professor did an experiment he took 2 footballs filled to13 psi at 70 degree room.he put 1 ball in a refrigerator at 40 degrees for an hour when the ball came put it was 11.7psi the other ball stayef at 13 psi

[Bevo]

Fucking grown children the lot of you. 

If everyone watching the super bowl suddenly vanished, I probably wouldn`t care.  Somehow everyone at the game and watching TV were vaporized instantly.  The world would be an amazing place after that.  I know an entire group of people would be lost, but the crime rates would surely be non-existent.

Sadly I'm starting to agree with u TA haha

[Bevo]

So, if a temp drop of 18-25 degrees could lower the ball 2 psi from 12.5 to 10.5, what happens if the temperature is much colder - do the balls continue to lose pressure?

He can't answer that question

Cold weather my ass, what was it like? 50 degrees oh brother

[Grape Ape]

Sadly I'm starting to agree with u TA haha

I'm not.  It's one thread and there's actually real back and forth, despite some posters attempts to disrupt it.  Nobody is making anyone post in it or read it.

And many of us "children" hold down good jobs, raise families, volunteer for charity, care for animals, cook cool food and do plenty of other stuff.  So anyone criticizing us for enjoying some football discussion can take a flying fuckolla.   

[Bevo]

I'm not.  It's one thread and there's actually real back and forth, despite some posters attempts to disrupt it.  Nobody is making anyone post in it or read it.

And many of us "children" hold down good jobs, raise families, volunteer for charity, care for animals, cook cool food and do plenty of other stuff.  So anyone criticizing us for enjoying some football discussion can take a flying fuckolla.   

True but u are behind young man. Many here are millionaires and billionaires deciding on what sports team to buy 

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Fucking grown children the lot of you. 

If everyone watching the super bowl suddenly vanished, I probably wouldn`t care.  Somehow everyone at the game and watching TV were vaporized instantly.  The world would be an amazing place after that.  I know an entire group of people would be lost, but the crime rates would surely be non-existent.

3/4 of the people who will be in the stadium watching the Super Bowl don't even like Football. It's all corporate now...

[Grape Ape]

True but u are behind young man. Many here are millionaires and billionaires deciding on what sports team to buy 

I am of constant hope that my contributions to the board and subsequent reading of the correct posts to master the proper methods of bodybuilding will catapult me to similar heights.

[The True Adonis]

Would anyone be opposed to having trivia introduced into this game?  When someone scores, they have to answer 10 trivia Jeopardy style questions correctly to get points.

How would this not enhance things?

[tleilaxutank]

So, if a temp drop of 18-25 degrees could lower the ball 2 psi from 12.5 to 10.5, what happens if the temperature is much colder - do the balls continue to lose pressure?

There you go again "knowing" a bunch of things you don't actually know but someone reported some shit and you believe it. Other people have reported different information. I will wait for the official report.

A ~1psi drop is very possible from a drop from 75  to 50 Degrees F.

The other point is a football leather expands when wet. The increase in volume also causes the pressure to go down. There are some experiments on the internet that you can watch.

[El Diablo Blanco]

There you go again "knowing" a bunch of things you don't actually know but someone reported some shit and you believe it. Other people have reported different information. I will wait for the official report.

A ~1psi drop is very possible from a drop from 75  to 50 Degrees F.

The other point is a football leather expands when wet. The increase in volume also causes the pressure to go down. There are some experiments on the internet that you can watch.

So I assume the Colts used a magic football tonic that allowed their balls to remain at the right PSI?

[tleilaxutank]

So I assume the Colts used a magic football tonic that allowed their balls to remain at the right PSI?

Magic tonic or the balls were above 12.5 to start. Let's say they were at 13.5 to start (Aaron Rodgers said he will overinflate his to 14.0 hoping the referees don't let out the extra half psi). They balls were quite dry as well seeing as they barely saw the field.

[Grape Ape]

There you go again "knowing" a bunch of things you don't actually know but someone reported some shit and you believe it. Other people have reported different information. I will wait for the official report.

A ~1psi drop is very possible from a drop from 75  to 50 Degrees F.

The other point is a football leather expands when wet. The increase in volume also causes the pressure to go down. There are some experiments on the internet that you can watch.

Who was "knowing" - I asked you a question based off what you typed.  I don't know Boyle's law other than the general gist of it.  So again, if a 1psi drop is possible for a 25 dgree drop, is 3+ possible for a 75 degree drop?

And, I've already explained the dynamic and context around this angle.  If the crux of your argument is always going to be the "knowing" angle, we don't need to discuss anything further.

[tleilaxutank]

Who was "knowing" - I asked you a question based off what you typed.  I don't know Boyle's law other than the general gist of it.  So again, if a 1psi drop is possible for a 25 dgree drop, is 3+ possible for a 75 degree drop?

And, I've already explained the dynamic and context around this angle.  If the crux of your argument is always going to be the "knowing" angle, we don't need to discuss anything further.

Pressure will continue to drop if the temperature drops, yes.

[tleilaxutank]

What is "known" or assumed to be fact is the foundation for all discussion. I find it paradoxical that you think there is no need for discussion if you can't agree on the facts up front, when that is really the only way one can engage in a meaningful discussion.

I personally, think we can assume that the balls were out of spec low on the field at halftime. I don't think we can assume by how much. You seem to think so. That is why we have drawn different conclusions.

[Grape Ape]

Pressure will continue to drop if the temperature drops, yes.

Ok.

That means if the temp in foxboro dropped to the teens or below, the football could end up in the 8s or lower?  To me this would be extremely noticeable, since we have seen 10.5 is considered deflated.  The Patriots and other cold weather teams would have to have some sort of process in place to combat this.  Which also means they would have intimate knowledge in the effects of temp vs psi, and could have easily countered with that.  But they didn't.  They claimed they were largely ignorant of this issue.

So, the math isn't adding up to me.

[tleilaxutank]

Ok.

That means if the temp in foxboro dropped to the teens or below, the football could end up in the 8s or lower?  To me this would be extremely noticeable, since we have seen 10.5 is considered deflated.  The Patriots and other cold weather teams would have to have some sort of process in place to combat this.  Which also means they would have intimate knowledge in the effects of temp vs psi, and could have easily countered with that.  But they didn't.  They claimed they were largely ignorant of this issue.

So, the math isn't adding up to me.

That is an interesting slant. Never considered this to be honest. But your logic applies to balls that are inflated to the maximum 13.5 psi as well. There is a temperature at which those balls will drop out of spec too. The leather does get harder as the temperature drops so this may affect the way the ball feels (it could feel hard while having a lower psi in it).

My opinion is that the air pressure in the ball is simply not a big deal in terms of feel in the ranges we are talking about. The ball feels pretty much the same if the psi is within a 1 or 2 of eachother (which is why the referees didn't really notice it at first). I think the preference (Brady vs. Rodgers) is psychological if anything.

[Grape Ape]

That is an interesting slant. Never considered this to be honest. But your logic applies to balls that are inflated to the maximum 13.5 psi as well. There is a temperature at which those balls will drop out of spec too. The leather does get harder as the temperature drops so this may affect the way the ball feels (it could feel hard while having a lower psi in it).

My opinion is that the air pressure in the ball is simply not a big deal in terms of feel in the ranges we are talking about. The ball feels pretty much the same if the psi is within a 1 or 2 of eachother (which is why the referees didn't really notice it at first). I think the preference (Brady vs. Rodgers) is psychological if anything.

I get where you are coming from.  I don't know about the "feel" because I haven't tried to find out.  But I do know more than one QB has come out and said it is noticeable.  I heard it put in another way - it's like Jimi Hendrix not knowing his guitar is out of tune.

Agree pysche plays a big part - both those guys could win games throwing bricks instead of footballs.

If I had to guess completely where i think it will land - I think the Pats have always done this, as it's been something the league was lax on.   Then the league got put on the spot, and they be forced to show negligence and rule enforecment.  So both have a hand in it.

[WalterWhite]

JEFF BLAKE SAYS QBS HAVE BEEN DEFLATING BALLS FOR DECADES
01.29.15 at 11:01 am ET
By Jerry Thornton
 
Jeff Blake says quarterbacks have been deflating balls for decades (Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)

PHOENIX – Is New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady a cheater? And if so, does he have a lot of company around the NFL?

Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake says that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

“I’m just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played,” the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the “Midday 180″ show on Nashville’s 104.5 The Zone. “Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can’t feel the ball as well. It’s too hard.

“Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it’s not the point to where it’s flat. So I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s not something that’s not been done for 20 years. … I would say (to a ball boy), ‘Take a little bit of air out of it. It’s a little bit hard,'” Blake said. “And then he’d take a little bit out and I’d squeeze it and I’d be like, ‘OK, it’s perfect.’ That’s it.”

Oh dear Lord. This is a scandal I don’t think we’ll ever recover from.

I mean, the air pressure inside eleven footballs during one half of a blowout football game has been the biggest story of 2015. So this ought to rock America to it’s very foundation. Apparently football pressure integrity is one of the pillars of our republic. Written into the Constitution somewhere between free speech and right to a jury trial.

So the fact that NFL quarterbacks have been letting the air out of balls since Tom Brady was wearing Garanimals just gives lie to everything we stand for. Forget Watergate or Teapot Dome or the 1919 Black Sox. This is the kind of crisis that gives lie to everything you ever believed in. Once you’ve lost faith in your ability to believe in the sanctity of “12.5-to-14.5 PSI,” how can you trust anything ever again?

We might as well just take all the Lombardi trophies won over the last twenty years and just melt them down into asterisks, disband every NFL team, raze all the stadiums, close down civilization and go move back to the forest because our whole lives have been a lie. This is exactly what the Fall of Rome must have felt like.  Oh well, America. It was fun while it lasted.

[Earl1972]

What is "known" or assumed to be fact is the foundation for all discussion. I find it paradoxical that you think there is no need for discussion if you can't agree on the facts up front, when that is really the only way one can engage in a meaningful discussion.

I personally, think we can assume that the balls were out of spec low on the field at halftime. I don't think we can assume by how much. You seem to think so. That is why we have drawn different conclusions.

how many times does your team have to be caught cheating before you finally think of them as cheaters?

E

[blacken700]

how many times does your team have to be caught cheating before you finally think of them as cheaters?

E

as far as I know the pats have only been caught once