BigRo Exposed as an idiot, Whey Protein vs Meat Debate

[The True Adonis]

TA, I would think the amino profile of an animal species is in their DNA, the amino ratio is probably pretty consistent.

Aminos will vary between breed and even cut of meat.
Here is a good example:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ebynmPo2yakJ:www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx%3FpaperID%3D34588+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Page 1
Vol.4, No.5B, 61-64 (2013)
Agricultural Sciences
doi:10.4236/as.2013.45B012

Amino acid composition of droughtmaster beef at
various beef cuts


ABSTRACT
A total of 14 parts of beef cuts were used to de-
termine the amino acid composition in drought-
master beef. Drought-master beef is a cross
breed tropical cattle with 50% Shorthorn and
50% Brahman cattle. The most abundant type of
amino acid in drought-master beef was glutamic
acid, followed by aspartic acid, lysine, leucine
and arginine. The flank cut of beef was found to
contain higher amount of total amino acids fol-
lowed by top side and short rib cut of beef. The
amino acid composition of drought-master beef
indicates that beef is a good source of dietary
protein for human.

[Van_Bilderass]

Yes the total amount of protein/aminos will of course vary. I meant the amino profile, meaning the ratio of the different aminos.
That I would suspect stays consistent, the DNA of the specific animal species dictates what "type" of muscle tissue (protein) is built.

[Van_Bilderass]

Not a fan of bigRo but he's absolutely right on this one.

Well, how would you prove he is right if you can't use the available science? You can only go by "feel" but there's
so many other factors that go into building a physique, other than the protein, so how do you know what is doing what. You could find several other bodybuilders who "feel" whey is better than say tuna.

[The True Adonis]

Yes the total amount of protein/aminos will of course vary. I meant the amino profile, meaning the ratio of the different aminos.
That I would suspect stays consistent, the DNA of the specific animal species dictates what "type" of muscle tissue (protein) is built.

Well I can tell you that the Kjeldahl method is by far the most common way in which Protein content for beef is determined and that it is a poor correlation for predicting protein content as far as an Amino profile is concerned.  The Kjeldahl method is whats used for labeling.

[The True Adonis]

Another good example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23601414

Food Chem. 2013 Oct 1;140(3):608-12. doi: 10.1016/j.foodchem.2012.08.046. Epub 2012 Sep 13.
Total nitrogen vs. amino-acid profile as indicator of protein content of beef.
Hall NG1, Schönfeldt HC.
Author information
Abstract

In most cited food composition studies and tables, the proximate system measures protein as total nitrogen (N) (determined by Kjeldahl or Dumas method) multiplied by a specific factor. A factor of 6.25 is used for determining total protein from total N (Jones, Munsey, & Walker, 1942). Although more expensive, it is considered more accurate to base protein content of foods on amino acid data (Greenfield & Southgate, 2003). A study on the nutrient composition of beef analysed the full amino-acid profile of fifteen retail cuts from three age groups and six fat codes, as well as determined total nitrogen content to determine proximate protein composition. For all cuts, the correlation coefficient of total amino acids to protein (N×6.25) was 0.635. This indicates a poor correlation for predicting actual protein content (as determined by total amino acid count), based on the nitrogen factor of 6.25. On average, the sum of amino acids per cut amounted to 91% of total determined protein (N×6.25) for the same cut.

Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

[Van_Bilderass]

Well I can tell you that the Kjeldahl method is by far the most common way in which Protein content for beef is determined and that it is a poor correlation for predicting actual protein content as far as an Amino profile is concerned.  The Kjeldahl method is whats used for labeling.

Well, when the above abstract says glutamic acid is the most abundant amino it might not be true? What I'm reading here
is that the total amount of protein varies by different cuts, which makes sense. But my hunch is that the ratios are pretty well established, otherwise all the data on protein quality/effectiveness (BV etc) would be useless. We know for example that beef collagen protein is completely devoid of tryptophane, an essential amino.

[ritch]

@mandar...
you can't compare whey to beef as beef has lots of nice fat in it. Of course if you take in the same amount of  protein from beef and whey, the beef will make you bigger as you have more cals! Beef has a super long half life as well.

You make some good points, but feel you're not making a fair comparison here.

[Grape Ape]

Not sure why you think its so impossible that I can't and that I have "Zero" chance etc. [/color]

Let's put it another way - the probability is almost nil because you always go balls out, burn out, and quit everything.

If you trained natty and stuck to the stuff we talked about 10 mths (year) ago, you'd ripped, strong and running half marathons by now.

[Palpatine Q]

I always counted whey as food. It's a processed milk product. I think it's kind
of ridiculous to talk about protein powder vs food. They are both food.

If many products don't contain what the label says, that's a problem, but
it doesn't change my contention that whey is food, a good protein source.
If whey didn't "work" it wouldn't be put in infant formulas or other products
for sick people, they would use powdered chicken or steak instead.

This.  

People talk about protein powders like they are cleaning products...you eat them.  Food

[ritch]

I hear you but if you think about it 100g rump steak has around 22g protein, maybe 5g fat, Zero carbs and is about 125 calories.

My ON whey isolate has like around 24g protein, 1g fat 4g Carbs and is around 100 calories.

So I doubt its the extra 25 calories in the steak making the difference here.

I have no fucking clue why its different but just knows there is huge difference in its effect on my body.



surely you eat more than 100gr of steak, lol! I'd say double that. so a good 10 grams of fat. At the end of the day, if one was to follow your advice, that adds up to an extra 48 grams of very body building friendly fats.

And most would take in higher fat steaks and still get much more fat. So the numbers would be even higher therefore based on that, making you right.

The steak is better .Better because it has more power (powered by fat)

There is a time for fast protein, a time for slow, or slower protein (beef, whole eggs) not sure why this has to be such an "either/or" discussion.

[BigRo]

Big Row, how much do you upright row these days?

whatever the girl weighs I am lifting up to eat of the snatch.

[bigmc]

No dude natty at 8% BF I would be looking at around 158-160lb, skinny as fuck, weak as fuck, no sex drive or energy with 14 inch guns at best, looking lost in clothes and hardly noticeable.

I would simply look good in photos but thats it.

I have done it before so I know to get low body fat like that natty you feel like dying literally and its no life man.

That's just the truth of it

you keep failing because you set yourself unrealistic targets

ive met you

on the gear you are on and your frame

you should be shooting for about 170lbs at 7 percent

its bigger than you think

200 at 7 for you is the same size as groink

thats never going to happen

[Costanza]

Big Row, how much do you upright row these days?

whatever the girl weighs I am lifting up to eat of the snatch.

NegRo ready to join team 5 plates a side.

[pedro01]

Whey protein makes you fart a lot.

I applaud anyone that eats meat instead of whey.

Especially those I share an elevator with.

Whey is a hyped by product of making cheese. There's a whole industry selling it to young men with body dismorphia. It's great - they'd have thrown most of that shit out but now they can sell it to bodybuilders.

I tend to think most of what's written about it is bullshit. Apart from the fact it generates gas.

[rudylrichards]

Well, how would you prove he is right if you can't use the available science? You can only go by "feel" but there's
so many other factors that go into building a physique, other than the protein, so how do you know what is doing what. You could find several other bodybuilders who "feel" whey is better than say tuna.

simple, can't think of any successful athlete or bodybuilder who live on whey as opposed to steak, chicken, fish eggs etc. I use whey in my diet so I'm not saying it's useless either but not better. Sometimes you do lab experiment & it's great in the lab but doesn't translate equally effective in real life.

I agree you can find several other bbers who'll say whey is better but I think they'll primarily be under contract.

[Cleanest Natural]

I don't think you ever mentioning using protein powders correct?you use only food.

yes, in the past I used powders and experimented with everything

[Cleanest Natural]

is there really any solid proof yet that artificial sweeteners are bad?

BigRo is right though that foods > powders

no studies willknock down one of the main ingredients used by the controllers of this planet to numb you into submission so IF one decides to run one do not expect ANY scientific community validation

Besides the fact that nobody really knows exactly what is in powders as they are produced to generate income and many studies are funded by the supplement companies themselves

Just try two separate diets as an experiment: one with organic lean red meats and not only and another with powders all else being equal..see the differences and post pictures

[Van_Bilderass]

simple, can't think of any successful athlete or bodybuilder who live on whey as opposed to steak, chicken, fish eggs etc. I use whey in my diet so I'm not saying it's useless either but not better. Sometimes you do lab experiment & it's great in the lab but doesn't translate equally effective in real life.

I agree you can find several other bbers who'll say whey is better but I think they'll primarily be under contract.

I don't know anyone who lives on powders only either, who does, so you can't make a comparison between solids and shakes.like that. But if you really think whey is obviously inferior why would you ever drink them, other than laziness?  

I have done tuna shakes in a blender, done cottage cheese shakes too. You think this would be better than whey?

[_aj_]

you keep failing because you set yourself unrealistic targets

ive met you

on the gear you are on and your frame

you should be shooting for about 170lbs at 7 percent

its bigger than you think

200 at 7 for you is the same size as groink

thats never going to happen

IIRC, Joon is talking 200-220 @ 7%.

Now we are in fantasy orbit.

[_aj_]

no studies willknock down one of the main ingredients used by the controllers of this planet to numb you into submission so IF one decides to run one do not expect ANY scientific community validation

Besides the fact that nobody really knows exactly what is in powders as they are produced to generate income and many studies are funded by the supplement companies themselves

Just try two separate diets as an experiment: one with organic lean red meats and not only and another with powders all else being equal..see the differences and post pictures

[Van_Bilderass]

IIRC, Joon is talking 200-220 @ 7%.

Now we are in fantasy orbit.

LOL he has no clue. Seems like he was backtracking a bit though, 190 @ up to 10% was acceptable too it seems.
He has the funds for Genotropin and real human grade gear so he must deliver this at least... but I suspect something will come in the way.

[Thin Lizzy]

In the Irish neighborhood where I grew up, doing Yoga poses was a sure ticket to an Atomic Wedgie, followed by a Purple Nurple and ending with a massive Pile-On.

[_aj_]

LOL he has no clue. Seems like he was backtracking a bit though, 190 @ up to 10% was acceptable too it seems.
He has the funds for Genotropin and real human grade gear so he must deliver this at least... but I suspect something will come in the way.

The biggest thing standing in his way is his insistence on coming to Getbig. If he's really on that much gear, I am pretty sure that his fuse is always lit and he's about 45 seconds away from throwing his laptop out the window.

And at this point, there are 30 or so people that know EXACTLY how to get him wound up to the point of a meltdown.

[Grape Ape]

No dude natty at 8% BF I would be looking at around 158-160lb, skinny as fuck, weak as fuck, no sex drive or energy with 14 inch guns at best, looking lost in clothes and hardly noticeable.

I would simply look good in photos but thats it.

I have done it before so I know to get low body fat like that natty you feel like dying literally and its no life man.

That's just the truth of it

If you can't be strong at 160 and lean at your height, you're in the wrong game.  Start playing Grand Theft Auto vigorously, and forget about this shit.

[FitnessFrenzy]

In the Irish neighborhood where I grew up, doing Yoga poses was a sure ticket to an Atomic Wedgie, followed by a Purple Nurple and ending with a massive Pile-On.

Maybe that was the reason that BigRo decided to become a huge bodybuilder.