Ben Carson: War Against ISIS Should Have No ‘Rules’

[polychronopolous]

According to pediatric neurosurgeon and potential 2016 presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson, one of the main impediments to U.S. military success against ISIS in the Middle East is the fear of prosecution when those conducting the operations return home. In Carson’s view, we need to eliminate all “rules” in the fight against ISIS if we ever want to win.

“Our military needs to know that they’re not going be prosecuted when they come back, because somebody has said, ‘You did something that was politically incorrect,’” Carson told Bill Hemmer on Fox News Monday morning. “There is no such thing as a politically correct war. We need to grow up, we need to mature. If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war. Other than that, we have to win. Our life depends on it.”

While there may be “no such thing as a politically correct war,” there is such a thing as the Geneva Conventions to which the United States is a party. And there are such things as war crimes, for which military leaders can be prosecuted if they are committed.

[240 is Back]

See, we're not using a tenth of our military capacity against ISIS.   Zero boots on ground, zero bases, zero bribes/rewards, all the usual shit we do with an actual war.

If anything, we're just under-reacting to ISIS, not using enough of our EXISTING tools to destroy ISIS.

Carson is showing immaturity here.   He's ready to toss Geneva out the window, before we've even tried conventional forces.  The world is a small place thanks to technology.  If we want to commit 100k troops, ISIS will be shredded.

For Carson to say we should abandon Geneva?  Terrible idea.  Cause that works both ways, and that's terrifying for the safety of our forces.  I get it, Carson is just throwing red meat to the repub base here, with an erection for torture and nukes.  But we haven't sent in ground forces yet - Not sure torture factories and nuking our allies, like the other state senator said, show any kind of understanding of the situation.

[Archer77]

In a very practical sense he is right.  The question is always whether we as a society want to resort to the kind of tactics necessary.  We may win the war but lose our souls.   On the other hand, ISIS knows there are lines we won't cross and they exploit our moral weakness and the relatively peaceful life in the west to their advantage. We have everything to lose and they know it.  If we unleashed the full force of our military without concern for rules they would be gone in a couple weeks.

[polychronopolous]

See, we're not using a tenth of our military capacity against ISIS.   Zero boots on ground, zero bases, zero bribes/rewards, all the usual shit we do with an actual war.

If anything, we're just under-reacting to ISIS, not using enough of our EXISTING tools to destroy ISIS.

Carson is showing immaturity here.   He's ready to toss Geneva out the window, before we've even tried conventional forces.  The world is a small place thanks to technology.  If we want to commit 100k troops, ISIS will be shredded.

For Carson to say we should abandon Geneva?  Terrible idea.  Cause that works both ways, and that's terrifying for the safety of our forces.  I get it, Carson is just throwing red meat to the repub base here, with an erection for torture and nukes.  But we haven't sent in ground forces yet - Not sure torture factories and nuking our allies, like the other state senator said, show any kind of understanding of the situation.

It's an interesting debate.

How to act in warfare against an enemy who has absolutely zero regards for The Geneva Convention Rules?

[Archer77]

See, we're not using a tenth of our military capacity against ISIS.   Zero boots on ground, zero bases, zero bribes/rewards, all the usual shit we do with an actual war.

If anything, we're just under-reacting to ISIS, not using enough of our EXISTING tools to destroy ISIS.

Carson is showing immaturity here.   He's ready to toss Geneva out the window, before we've even tried conventional forces.  The world is a small place thanks to technology.  If we want to commit 100k troops, ISIS will be shredded.

For Carson to say we should abandon Geneva?  Terrible idea.  Cause that works both ways, and that's terrifying for the safety of our forces.  I get it, Carson is just throwing red meat to the repub base here, with an erection for torture and nukes.  But we haven't sent in ground forces yet - Not sure torture factories and nuking our allies, like the other state senator said, show any kind of understanding of the situation.

Terrorist organizations don't comply with the Geneva convention.  We don't benefit from it's protection.

[240 is Back]

Terrorist organizations don't comply with the Geneva convention.  We don't benefit from it's protection.

The moment it's known that "US regularly tortures people", our soldiers will face that, in every battle, in every war, forever.

We might not benefit against ISIS, but the minute we abandon it "just this once", we lose its protection in other matters.  Can't turn that on and off. 

Carson is immature here.  You don't NEED torture because you don't even have boots on the ground yet.  You publicly endorse waterboarding when we don't even have troops on ground to adminster it?   Just dumb.

I can't defend this obvious pandering to the base, pretending he's the king of jordan lol...

[Archer77]

The moment it's known that "US regularly tortures people", our soldiers will face that, in every battle, in every war, forever.

We might not benefit against ISIS, but the minute we abandon it "just this once", we lose its protection in other matters.  Can't turn that on and off. 

Carson is immature here.  You don't NEED torture because you don't even have boots on the ground yet.  You publicly endorse waterboarding when we don't even have troops on ground to adminster it?   Just dumb.

I can't defend this obvious pandering to the base, pretending he's the king of jordan lol...

That's not necessarily true.   Nation states will still comply with the Geneva Convention as they have more to lose and deep connections with the global community.

[240 is Back]

That's not necessarily true.   Nation states will still comply with the Geneva Convention as they have more to lose and deep connections with the global community.

no, because EVERYONE tortures when cameras and accountability isn't around. EVERYONE shoves fingers in bullet holes on the battlefield and demands to know where the rest of his buddies are hiding.

I guess the proof is in the pudding - the only people who ever condone the use of torture are straight up evil MFer like Cheney, or fringe candidates with minimal chance like Carson, hoping to give the base a war hard-on.  Actual war grownups don't support it.

[Archer77]

no, because EVERYONE tortures when cameras and accountability isn't around. EVERYONE shoves fingers in bullet holes on the battlefield and demands to know where the rest of his buddies are hiding.

I guess the proof is in the pudding - the only people who ever condone the use of torture are straight up evil MFer like Cheney, or fringe candidates with minimal chance like Carson, hoping to give the base a war hard-on.  Actual war grownups don't support it.

I'm not sure what this comment has to do with what I wrote.

[Dos Equis]

Terrorist organizations don't comply with the Geneva convention.  We don't benefit from it's protection.

True.  The enemies we have been fighting since 9/11 don't follow rules.  The laws of armed conflict are really a code of conduct for the United States more than anything else.  Very frustrating.  But we have to follow the rules.  Not because it will convince our enemies to follow them (because they will not), but because it's the right thing to do.  We would lose our moral authority around the world if we became like the very people we're trying to wipe off the map. 

[240 is Back]

we aren't using ground forces.  we aren't using many of the tools at our disposal.

IMO, if Obama was going straight from airstrikes to torture factories, repubs would be shitting their pants in anger lol.

"Why not use ground forces, why not all these other tools we have..."

They get so butthurt over obama airstrikes but freak out when it comes to torture, hey, it's a party now!

[Soul Crusher]

we aren't using ground forces.  we aren't using many of the tools at our disposal.

IMO, if Obama was going straight from airstrikes to torture factories, repubs would be shitting their pants in anger lol.

"Why not use ground forces, why not all these other tools we have..."

They get so butthurt over obama airstrikes but freak out when it comes to torture, hey, it's a party now!

[240 is Back]

dont be rude, tell me why i'm wrong?

Do you really think we should go directly from airstrikes to setting up torture chambers overnight?

Or, use the many other tools at our disposal?

[Soul Crusher]

dont be rude, tell me why i'm wrong?

Do you really think we should go directly from airstrikes to setting up torture chambers overnight?

Or, use the many other tools at our disposal?

The only guys upset over torture are libfags and democrat cultists - no one else

[240 is Back]

The only guys upset over torture are libfags and democrat cultists - no one else

here is a nice list of high rank, retired US military that are speaking out against the use of torture:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/torture/retired-military-leaders-against-torture

Military leaders speaking out against torture:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/military-heroes-no-torture-bush-cheney

lots of reason the military is against torture:
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-op-kaiser24sep24-story.html

generals against torture;
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/press-release/generals-hoar-krulak-urge-obama-administration-affirm-un-convention-against-torture

sorry man, but I'm not willing to call these heroes names.  They have served.

[Soul Crusher]

here is a nice list of high rank, retired US military that are speaking out against the use of torture:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/torture/retired-military-leaders-against-torture

Military leaders speaking out against torture:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/military-heroes-no-torture-bush-cheney

lots of reason the military is against torture:
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-op-kaiser24sep24-story.html

generals against torture;
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/press-release/generals-hoar-krulak-urge-obama-administration-affirm-un-convention-against-torture

sorry man, but I'm not willing to call these heroes names.  They have served.

Humans Rights First?  LMFAO!   Go back to DU bro - honestly - you are really far gone 

[240 is Back]

Humans Rights First?  LMFAO!   Go back to DU bro - honestly - you are really far gone 

look at the names and the quotes.  we're talking hundreds of years' of service to our nation at the highest level.

their opinions matter.  Don't make fun of the urls... read what generals have to say.  They're against it.

[Archer77]

True.  The enemies we have been fighting since 9/11 don't follow rules.  The laws of armed conflict are really a code of conduct for the United States more than anything else.  Very frustrating.  But we have to follow the rules.  Not because it will convince our enemies to follow them (because they will not), but because it's the right thing to do.  We would lose our moral authority around the world if we became like the very people we're trying to wipe off the map. 

And this was the point of my original post.  I totally agree

[calfzilla]

Hmm I'm ok with us doing more to fight Isis but I would really like to see the Arab countries like Jordan and Egypt and such take the initiative and really go after Isis themselves.

It's kinda like here in the states how the white man ain't gonna solve the black mans problems, black community need to fix their own. Same with the Arab world and isil scum.

[Erik C]

A good muslim is a dead muslim.

[polychronopolous]

Hmm I'm ok with us doing more to fight Isis but I would really like to see the Arab countries like Jordan and Egypt and such take the initiative and really go after Isis themselves.

It's kinda like here in the states how the white man ain't gonna solve the black mans problems, black community need to fix their own. Same with the Arab world and isil scum.

Karl Malone to Black Community: 'Stop Using That Excuse About Race

“We need to look in our mirror ourselves, stop waiting on someone to come march on our behalf..."



Speaking with liberal commentator Mark Lamont Hill on Huff Post Live Thursday, former NBA star Karl Malone said he was “sick and tired” of fellow African Americans using “that excuse about race,” arguing that it was time for personal responsibility and for the community to “stop waiting on someone to come march on our behalf.”

Malone’s comments came in response to Charles Barkley’s criticism of the anti-law enforcement riots in Ferguson after the shooting of Michael Brown, an excerpt from which Hill played for Malone:

Barkley: We, as black people, we got a lot of crooks. We can’t just wait till something like this happens. We got to look ourselves in the mirror. There’s a reason [law enforcement] racially profile us at times. Sometimes it’s wrong, but sometimes it’s right. So to … sit there and act like we all hold no responsibility for some of this stuff is disingenuous.

When Hill asked Malone his take on Barkley’s call for the African American community to “look in the mirror,” Malone said he completely agreed:

Malone: I echo his sentiments exactly. We need to look in our mirror ourselves,  stop waiting on someone to come march on our behalf, take ownership in ourself, make our community better, and stop looking for a handout. Do something about it yourself that you can control. Stop using that excuse about race. I am sick and tired that every time you turn around, that’s what we dangle. Everybody can dangle it. [...] Race goes both ways—it really goes both ways.

Hill then asked him if he thought race did not play a part in Ferguson, to which Malone said while his heart went out to the family, he thought “everyone was at fault." He then stressed the importance of valuing our first responders and taking personal responsibility:

Malone: Let me tell you something, our first responders have a hell of a job to do. They have families as well. But I think this right here: our problem now is that we do so much talking and beating things to death. Let’s take ownership in ourself. What can we do? What can we do as a society, what can we do as African Americans? And stop waiting on someone to come in and march for us. Be your person and own up to what you need to do and handle your business. I have nothing wrong with what Charles said because I believe him as well.

As TopRightNews highlights, Malone was immediately denounced online by the left for bucking the Democrat party line on race, with one commenter saying he “wants to be white so bad it’s sickening,” while another said it’s time for the Barkley and Malone to “stop talking in general.” Others, however, agreed with Malone and thanked Malone for “keeping it real.”

Barkley’s most quoted comments on Ferguson came during an interview with 97.5 The Fanatic (transcript via USA Today):

Barkley:[Those expletives] who are looting, those aren’t real black people, those are scumbags. Real black people, they’re not out there looting. I just watched a great story on CNN where bunch of folks wouldn’t let them burn down an establishment, it was a great story…. But unfortunately, the way the media portrays a lot of black people, we only put the negative black people on television. We don’t put the good hard-working black people. That’s what I said and that’s what I meant. There’s a perception amongst some black people that if you’re not a thug or a hood rat, you don’t wear your pants down by your [expletive] you’re not black enough. And they’re always holding us back, plain and simple. And I a’int shutting up and I a’int backing down. […] I know I’m black, but I’m going to try to always be honest and fair – we have to be really careful with the cops. If it wasn’t for the cops, we’d be living in the wild wild west in our neighborhoods. We can’t pick out certain incidents that don’t go our way and act like the cops are all bad.