If you're trying to be ridiculous, you've succeeded. I cannot "name" any doctors and you would not know them even if I could. If you are tired of what I state it is only because it is the truth. I know of Walczak. He was a BIG steroid doctor and a flaming homosexual. A friend was offered "help" in placing better but since I will not name names, you can choose to not believe.
The guys that I knew all went to the same doctors and yes, I knew the doctors too. They were gym members, good guys too. In the gym these guys would discuss results of the steroids and possible problems. The doctors were MDs. I am not and they would often take time to explain things to me because... you know, LOL!
I don't really know you or anyone you talk about here but I take your words as you type them to be true for you. You choose not to believe or accept mine? Fine. I said the men I knew were Men and that they still trained when off but had to accept that it was not as "productive" and they also accepted that without the drugs they were nowhere near as well built or strong.
Robby Robinson told me about drugs at Gold's. He was honest about taking them and said the same thing my friends did. It makes a difference and once you stop taking that difference disappears a lot. You have heard of him, have you not? I am not a friend of his, I was just there and he was too. He was polite as were all the guys I met there in the 70s. I've seen those gentlemen on and off, if you will. It's night and day. Black and white. Day in, day out. Is that clear enough? It's the truth. I am not arguing. No drugs and these guys are puny. It's the truth and you of all people should embrace the truth else wise you lose a touch of credibility. Or not.
As for why I mention my being slow, it's the truth. Your attempt to belittle me because of this is apparent and misguided. You mostly type. You have your moments but again, you mostly type and as with all of us you repeat your "arguments". I don't "argue", I say what I hold true.
I have no reason to, as you say, "exaggerate" what I witnessed. I don't need to. It makes no difference whether or not we choose to believe what we read here. I saw what I saw and heard from champion bodybuilders on down to men that I trained next to. Everything is subjective here because it is based upon the life experiences of people we really do not know.
Think as you choose. I am not here to change your mind nor your attitude. Neither am I come to insult you but if that is what you wish, forget it. I know you thrive on a "challenge" on these forums but believe me, I am not a fish in a barrel.
I'm not being ridiculous, you are. You expect me to believe these steroid doctors, doctors that you claim specialize in the field, which was rare then and is rare now, happened to also wind up at your gym where you trained? (How many were there? Two? Three? More?). And not only that, they openly discussed their protocols with other gym members, even to non patients, during off hours? And they confided their somewhat suspect treatment because, as you say, "you know, lol." I don't get it. What's so funny?
And you can't name them because they don't exist. I don't have to know them for it to have credibility. You don't have to know Walczak or Kerr but a simple google search will reveal they were one of the few that did specialize in this field. Neither worked out which it would make it even less likely that they would happen to be in the same gym to educate non patients on hormone use.
Now you are changing the argument, which is very common whenever I challenge someone. The argument was never that one would lose gains when they got off. And that difference would vary widely dependending on the person. Does Gunter or Dorian look like emaciated twinks that are wasting away? Are they puny? If you didn't know they were world class bbers you would rate them as above average in terms of muscle size. Larry Scott and Reg Park looked great well into their senior years.
No, the argument was the implication that with drugs, and drugs alone, you could also be at the level, you even mentioned your genetically cursed self as well, as some of the greatest bbers that ever lived.
I mean, if it worked on Flex Wheeler, Ronnie Coleman and Lee Priest (to name but three), it'll work on anybody!
Work on anybody? Really? You don't think Pat Putnam or Dan Hill tried to do everything Flex did. Nobody believes that. Only you. That is why I doubt so much of what you say. Guys that you knew benching 50 lbs more in three days with no training. Discussions with doctors and chewing the fat with Robby Robinson. Because of the claims that you make. The way you present your arguments. You simply do not have much credibility. People will read what I write and what you write and it will be clear who has more credibility. I know you claim you don't care whether I, or anyone believes you, another comment without credibility as you continually make this argument over, and over, and over again. Just like bber. What you say and claim and what you actually do is quite different. You care, and you care a lot about this issue which is why it is constant refrain with you.
And I am not belittling you because you are slow. You belittle yourself by constantly bringing it up. I had no feelings one way or another as to the level of your intelligence but would just take your arguments at face value. It's only because you constantly refer to your lack of intelligence that I acknowledge it and keep that in mind when discussing issues with you.
And you have every reason to exaggerate. To try to add some heft and gravity to your point. That's why everyone exaggerates. It's probably the most common thing when someone describes something. That applies to me as well. It is up to the reader to dissect and reason for himself which one has more credibility. Who is the one with the agenda. You claim that it doesn't matter and makes no difference but anyone who has read your posts over the years knows that is just utter bullshit. Your agenda is clear as day. All of bbing is just drugs. Not genetics, not hard work, not discipline, not sacrifice -- just drugs. I mean, if it worked on Flex Wheeler, Ronnie Coleman and Lee Priest, it'll work on anybody!
Sure it will. Remember Ronnie on the treadmill at midnight after training in a way few can manage and puttin in a full day of work? Yeah, anybody can do this.
