Why is it all or nothing on these boards?

[theworm]

Back in the 80s and 90s, it was common to cycle.  Get good gains, dobpct and go natural for a few months to become healthier, etc.

Now it seems everyone says stay on forever.  Ie, if you do one cycle you better never stop it.

Wonder why we got into this all or nothing attitude?? Studies show test decrease HDL and could cause heart attacks and maybe prostate cancer and hair loss.  Plus, injecting every week for the rest of your life seems sad

[Jizmo]

Back in the 80s and 90s, it was common to cycle.  Get good gains, dobpct and go natural for a few months to become healthier and smaller., etc.

Now it seems everyone says stay on forever.  Ie, if you do one cycle you better never stop it.

Wonder why we got into this all or nothing attitude?? Studies show test decrease HDL and could cause heart attacks and maybe prostate cancer and hair loss.  Plus, injecting every week for the rest of your life seems sad

thats why.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Back in the 80s and 90s, it was common to cycle.  Get good gains, dobpct and go natural for a few months to become healthier, etc.

Now it seems everyone says stay on forever.  Ie, if you do one cycle you better never stop it.

Wonder why we got into this all or nothing attitude?? Studies show test decrease HDL and could cause heart attacks and maybe prostate cancer and hair loss.  Plus, injecting every week for the rest of your life seems sad

Only HIGH test beyond TRT levels can cause those sides. One thing we also know for a fact is LOW test shortens lifespan and has the potential to speed up aging and heart disease. Having low test for the rest of your life is a recipe for disaster.

Therefore, I STRONGLY believe that no one should ever take steroids unless they are prepared for TRT. Even if they recover after a cycle or two, their test levels will never be quite as high and they will lose muscle, which defeats the purpose of steroids in the first place.

[theworm]

Only HIGH test beyond TRT levels can cause those sides. One thing we also know for a fact is LOW test shortens lifespan and has the potential to speed up aging and heart disease. Having low test for the rest of your life is a recipe for disaster.

Therefore, I STRONGLY believe that no one should ever take steroids unless they are prepared for TRT. Even if they recover after a cycle or two, their test levels will never be quite as high and they will lose muscle, which defeats the purpose of steroids in the first place.

I disagree.  These studies are flawed.  If you are obese, your test levels are low, because fat has more aromatase.  Then the studies say low test linked to obesity.  It's not cause and effect

[Jizmo]

I disagree.  These studies are flawed.  If you are obese, your test levels are low, because fat has more aromatase.  Then the studies say low test linked to obesity.  It's not cause and effect

the examples he brought up are not flawed.
or are you saying heart disease is the cause of low test? lol.

low test obviously is not the cause of obesity. skinnyfatness, yes. obesity? no.
youre correct with correlation =/= causation, however sped up aging and heart disease ARE causes of LOW test, albeit JUST AS MUCH AS HIGH TEST.

[theworm]

the examples he brought up are not flawed.
or are you saying heart disease is the cause of low test? lol.

low test obviously is not the cause of obesity. skinnyfatness, yes. obesity? no.
youre correct with correlation =/= causation, however sped up aging and heart disease ARE causes of LOW test, albeit JUST AS MUCH AS HIGH TEST.

People with heart disease also have risk factors, obesity, diabetes,etc.   obese people also have low test.

So it goes like this: obesity, diabetes --> low test --> heart disease

NOT.    Low test --> obesity and or heart disease

[Jizmo]

obese people dont have low test lol
they probably have high estrogen yeah but not necessarily low test
probably even higher test than the average guy because all that food raises hormone production, but since their bodyweight and blood volume is much higher the blood levels of testosterone are probably similar to the average joe
 
you dont have to be obese to have fucked up cholesterol and therefore higher risk of heart disease though
steroid abuse does that
low test does that too

how come all these high dose bodybuilders are dropping like flies from heart attacks and strokes
protip: its not because theyre obese
its because theyre roided to fuck and back

and just like HIGH test, LOW TEST = out of whack cholesterol numbers (obviously other variables come into play)
estrogen can be beneficial for lipids for example
however high estrogen is also linked to heart disease
thats why estrogen hrt for women is highly debated in europe right now for example

[pestosterone]

Because doing an 8-16 weeks cycle and coming to b a fuxking tiny bitch sucks and is a waste of goddamn yoyo'd time BODYBUILDING not body shrinking then blow up and then shrink again that's ok if u wanna do a a show once a year and b 10lbs heavier than u r as a natty

[kevthekid]

Because I don't want to spend hundredds of dollars on a cycle then come off and have a majority of the gains go away. Waste of time and money

[tstmaniac]

I will say that even at TRT doses it definitely thickens the blood for many people which makes the heart work harder..phlebotomy Is a must...I learned a lot from the years of saucing up and wouldn't change anything.. However I'm not in denial about the harmful effects anymore...If the benefits outweigh the risks then go for it..

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I will say that even at TRT doses it definitely thickens the blood for many people which makes the heart work harder..phlebotomy Is a must...I learned a lot from the years of saucing up and wouldn't change anything.. However I'm not in denial about the harmful effects anymore...If the benefits outweigh the risks then go for it..

I was having major hematocrit issues on just TRT as well but once I cleaned up my diet and did cardio every day, my hematocrit went as low as 43. The right lifestyle will dramatically lower hematocrit.

[tatoo]

obese people dont have low test lol
they probably have high estrogen yeah but not necessarily low test
probably even higher test than the average guy because all that food raises hormone production, but since their bodyweight and blood volume is much higher the blood levels of testosterone are probably similar to the average joe
 
you dont have to be obese to have fucked up cholesterol and therefore higher risk of heart disease though
steroid abuse does that
low test does that too

how come all these high dose bodybuilders are dropping like flies from heart attacks and strokes
protip: its not because theyre obese
its because theyre roided to fuck and back

and just like HIGH test, LOW TEST = out of whack cholesterol numbers (obviously other variables come into play)
estrogen can be beneficial for lipids for example
however high estrogen is also linked to heart disease
thats why estrogen hrt for women is highly debated in europe right now for example

good post

[tstmaniac]

I was having major hematocrit issues on just TRT as well but once I cleaned up my diet and did cardio every day, my hematocrit went as low as 43. The right lifestyle will dramatically lower hematocrit.

That's not the case for everyone.. A lot of people will need to draw blood every 3 months to keep it down.. Do you give blood?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

That's not the case for everyone.. A lot of people will need to draw blood every 3 months to keep it down.. Do you give blood?

I don't have to anymore, because I learned cardio and a heart healthy diet keeps my hematocrit down. At one point, I was donating every 3 weeks from various blood sites.