Author Topic: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?  (Read 50658 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #200 on: April 13, 2015, 06:17:30 PM »
Then why has he never done the 3 times they competed against each other? ::)

Same reason Ronnie didn't to it the 8 times he competed with Dorian , he wasn't at his best.

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #201 on: April 13, 2015, 06:19:43 PM »

Sorry Shawn always a bride's maid and never the bride  ;D

http://www.flexonline.com/general-news/olympia-clash-titans-jackson-vs-ray



The 2009 Mr. Olympia on September 25-26 is shaping up to be the most competitive in history. Loaded with star power that hasn't been seen since the explosion of talent that populated the lineups of the nineties and into the new millennium, it sparks the timeless debate: Who was better, the champions of yesterday or the champions of today? To answer that, we've pitted the class of '09 against legendary names from the past, each in a one on one battle to determine once and for all, who will reign supreme. The seventh in our Olympia Clash of the Titans series features reigning Mr. Olympia Dexter Jackson facing Shawn Ray.

GO HERE FOR A COMPLETE LIST AND PROFILES OF ALL QUALIFIED OLYMPIA COMPETITORS!

TALE OF THE TAPE

   
NAME: Dexter Jackson
HEIGHT: 5'7"
WEIGHT: 235 pounds
OLYMPIA HISTORY: 1999, 9th; 2000, 9th; 2001, 8th; 2002, 4th; 2003, 3rd; 2004, 4th; 2006, 4th; 2007, 3rd; 2008, 1st   NAME: Shawn Ray
HEIGHT: 5'7"
WEIGHT: 205 pounds
OLYMPIA HISTORY: 1988, 13th; 1990, 3rd; 1991, 5th; 1992, 4th; 1993, 3rd; 1994, 2nd; 1995, 4th; 1996, 2nd; 1997, 3rd; 1998, 5th; 1999, 5th; 2000, 4th; 2001, 4th
SCOUTING REPORT: JACKSON
Jackson is the smallest man to wear the Olympia crown since Samir Bannout was bodybuilding's king back in 1983. Nevertheless, it's a testament to the excellence of his physique that Jackson was able to buck a 24-year trend. From neck to knee "The Blade" displays no weaknesses, and while his calves aren't quite up to the standards of the rest of his body, they do little to detract from his overall impressiveness.

SCOUTING REPORT: RAY
Shawn Ray is roundly considered one of the most proportioned bodybuilders in the sport's history. Although he never won an Olympia title, Ray made the top six an unprecedented 12 times, taking 2nd twice and 3rd three times. Although at just 205 pounds Ray couldn't dominate with size, he did routinely beat guys 50-70 pounds heavier with a near-perfect combination of mass, shape, proportion and definition.

FRONT VIEW:
This is almost too close to call. Jackson is crisper and has slightly fuller muscles. Ray's almost concave midsection and proportioned calves show a more complete look. Jackson has the wider shoulder structure.

SIDE VIEW:
Again, a very close call. Jackson's lagging calves are less noticeable here, evening things out. Ray's stellar serratus are on full display.

REAR VIEW:
Jackson's superior width gives pause, although Ray accounts well of himself in the rear double biceps shot, which highlights his great detail.

THE WINNER: JACKSON
By an eyelash. Even despite his calf deficit, Jackson's superior width and ultra-conditioning give him the edge. Were Ray to have been pressed to achieve the dryness that's de rigeur of Olympia competitors circa 2009 the outcome could be different



So you post an article about a what if and ignore the actual 3 times they were onstage together in which Shawn won.  Makes sense ::)
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Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #202 on: April 13, 2015, 06:21:07 PM »
Same reason Ronnie didn't to it the 8 times he competed with Dorian , he wasn't at his best.

This has nothing to do with Ronnie or Dorian shut the fuck up about them.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #203 on: April 13, 2015, 06:26:28 PM »
This has nothing to do with Ronnie or Dorian shut the fuck up about them.

Stop it , yes it does and it's the same reason you used it in favor of Ronnie , now it's no longer applicable  ::) stop cherry picking.

Royalty

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #204 on: April 13, 2015, 06:27:28 PM »
So you post an article about a what if and ignore the actual 3 times they were onstage together in which Shawn won.  Makes sense ::)

In the long run, if Shawn kept competing, I think that Dexter and Shawn would've traded victories back and forth. Kind of like Levrone and Wheeler did. Every show would have be close.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #205 on: April 13, 2015, 06:32:51 PM »
So you post an article about a what if and ignore the actual 3 times they were onstage together in which Shawn won.  Makes sense ::)

Was Dexter his best? NO so we can compare Dexter to his best to Shawn at his and Shawn would lose. Why would he lose? Dexter is bigger , Shawn did beat much bigger guys but that was when they were off and he had the edge in conditioning. He has no edge in conditioning over Dexter , and Dexter would just pick up more mandatory poses , I would give the edge in posing to Shawn though , but Dex has to many advantages.


And look at why Shawn beat Dexter those 3 times , Shawn competed ONCE and Dexter 5-6 times each year. Dexter was worn out from all the spring shows and Shawn was fresh doing one contest a year. It's not as black & white as it appears Wiggs

Hulkster

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #206 on: April 13, 2015, 06:42:43 PM »
Quote
Ronnie was better in 98 than 97 and the only reason he was better was due to conditioning. And Dorian would trample Ronnie 99 as well , Ronnie 98 was better than Ronnie 99 , Why? Same reason he was better in 98 than 97 , conditioning.


for the record, ronnie put on a ton of size between 97 and 99:

check the quads, chest, lats everything: it wasn't simply conditioning.

Ronnie himself said he put on about 5 pounds of solid muscle per year around that time (flex mag interview), which means he was about 10 pounds heavier from 97 to 99, which based on the visuals, looks about right:
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #207 on: April 13, 2015, 06:47:07 PM »
for the record, ronnie put on a ton of size between 97 and 99:

check the quads, chest, lats everything: it wasn't simply conditioning.

Ronnie himself said he put on about 5 pounds of solid muscle per year around that time (flex mag interview), which means he was about 10 pounds heavier from 97 to 99, which based on the visuals, looks about right:

No he wasn't he was 255lbs in 1997 and 257lbs in 1999 get your bullshit right. And we're comparing 1997 to 1998 in which Ronnie HIMSELF said was his best Olympia


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #208 on: April 13, 2015, 06:50:16 PM »
This is Ronnie 97  ;)

255lbs

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #209 on: April 13, 2015, 06:52:37 PM »
 :)

98 he dropped all the water weight and came in dry & hard grew some tits and beat everyone \

This was fucking NINTH in 1997 and a year later a lighter albeit harder & drier Ronnie is supposed top beat Dorian at his best? , never mind his worse in 1997 

get the fuck outta here

SF1900

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #210 on: April 13, 2015, 06:55:29 PM »
ND, why are you so obsessed with proving people wrong about bodybuilding contests? You call me a troll. However, you either: (a) must be trolling or (b) care way too much about bodybuilding contests.

Which one is it?
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #211 on: April 13, 2015, 06:58:35 PM »
ND, why are you so obsessed with proving people wrong about bodybuilding contests? You call me a troll. However, you either: (a) must be trolling or (b) care way too much about bodybuilding contests.

Which one is it?

I'm not obsessed I'm giving my opinion. I think I'm a little more informed than most and it's like explaining things to children , some just never get it though their heads and isn't that what these boards are for?  ???


Hulkster

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #212 on: April 13, 2015, 07:22:44 PM »
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1eyvt_ronnie-coleman-1997-olympia_sport

if you think Ronnie is 255 in this video with quads that look like toothpicks (compared to 99) then I am fucking Santa Claus... ::)

if his weight was listed as 255 anywhere at that contest it was clearly not correct.

see for yourself.

Helen Keller could see he was way bigger in 99 vs 97, not just 2 pounds..
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Neptune100

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #213 on: April 13, 2015, 07:36:50 PM »
Dexter beats Ray all day...better conditioning...better structure.  Only place Ray win is calves. Thats it.

dyslexic

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #214 on: April 13, 2015, 07:42:40 PM »
Can you imagine a Panel of Judges at the Mr. O with all Getbiggers?


They would have to extend the show for a couple of weeks just for the arguing to die down.


Score cards would be irrelevant.... lmao

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #215 on: April 13, 2015, 07:43:04 PM »
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1eyvt_ronnie-coleman-1997-olympia_sport

if you think Ronnie is 255 in this video with quads that look like toothpicks (compared to 99) then I am fucking Santa Claus... ::)

if his weight was listed as 255 anywhere at that contest it was clearly not correct.

see for yourself.

Helen Keller could see he was way bigger in 99 vs 97, not just 2 pounds..

Oh boy , after all these years still in denial. Yeah he was much bigger in 99 much bigger gut  ;)

Iceman1981

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #216 on: April 13, 2015, 08:35:30 PM »
He kicked Ronnie's ass for years on end with those arms. Ronnie 98 is Ronnie 97 dry & hard sprinkled with bitch-tits , and we all know Dorian wrote the book on dry & hard , The only difference between 97 & 98 is conditioning. He's not bigger , he's not more balanced , he didn't bring up any weak points , he's the same just in shape. Ronnie 97 was 9th against a career worst Dorian , you think with improved conditioning he's gonna beat a career best Dorian? NOT going to happen.

Everyone supposedly had better arms them him and he still beat them.

Mr.1derful mentioned 98/99. No where 1997 was mentioned. So, what are you babbling on about? You actually think 1998 Ronnie is a "same just in shape" as a 1997 Ronnie? I think you've lost it. I've never heard any bodybuilding experts, writers, photographers etc even compare a 1997 Ronnie to a 1998 Ronnie and say what you just said above^^^^^^. If you're comparing 1997 Ronnie to a 1998 Ronnie then there is really no point in debating with you. It's just a joke to read what you're typing if you actually believe what you're saying.

jude2

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #217 on: April 13, 2015, 08:46:14 PM »
Dexter beats Ray all day...better conditioning...better structure.  Only place Ray win is calves. Thats it.
This is why BB won't change for the better. Even the some of the experts on getbig prefer the turtle shell and oil filled Dexter over a prime great BB Shawn.

Bevo

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #218 on: April 14, 2015, 01:01:57 AM »
for the record, ronnie put on a ton of size between 97 and 99:

check the quads, chest, lats everything: it wasn't simply conditioning.

Ronnie himself said he put on about 5 pounds of solid muscle per year around that time (flex mag interview), which means he was about 10 pounds heavier from 97 to 99, which based on the visuals, looks about right:

Those pics Cormier looks the best imo , the most ideal physique

kyomu

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #219 on: April 14, 2015, 01:11:51 AM »
Always endup with Dorian vs Ronnie...  :-\

Bevo

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #220 on: April 14, 2015, 01:13:59 AM »
This is why BB won't change for the better. Even the some of the experts on getbig prefer the turtle shell and oil filled Dexter over a prime great BB Shawn.

 8)

njflex

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #221 on: April 14, 2015, 05:31:00 AM »
Those pics Cormier looks the best imo , the most ideal physique
you know I was thinking same thing ,I was going to quote that with the picture as reference,milos doesn't look too shabby either there,,its like the huge guy in the middle with blown out bodyparts/shape so/so relaxed there,,and 2 guys in the corners looking like a bber should ..

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #222 on: April 14, 2015, 05:40:39 AM »
Mr.1derful mentioned 98/99. No where 1997 was mentioned. So, what are you babbling on about? You actually think 1998 Ronnie is a "same just in shape" as a 1997 Ronnie? I think you've lost it. I've never heard any bodybuilding experts, writers, photographers etc even compare a 1997 Ronnie to a 1998 Ronnie and say what you just said above^^^^^^. If you're comparing 1997 Ronnie to a 1998 Ronnie then there is really no point in debating with you. It's just a joke to read what you're typing if you actually believe what you're saying.

Tell me where Ronnie improved on from 97 to 98. Tell me. Where? did he pack on more muscular size in 98? NO , did his back get wider? NO , did he improve his calves? NO , did he improve any weak areas? NO. Where are these improvements other than getting totally dry & hard? Where? Did his delts get bigger? Better? Every ' improvement ' was due to the fact his conditioning was dead-on. except the bitch-tits of course  ;D


Instead of just throwing your hands up in the air , address the questions. Ronnie was 255lbs at the 1997 Mr Olympia , admittedly he wasn't in fantastic shape , you think it's coincidence he went down to 249lbs in 1998 and was dry & hard as nails?

EspenG

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #223 on: April 14, 2015, 11:28:21 AM »
ND, I usually agree with most of your arguments. But not regarding Ronnie 97 vs 98. For those of us that were at both shows, it was obvious that Ronnie was ‘transformed’ (as is obvious when studying pics and movies). He was bigger, fuller and sharper. I think the comparison picture you provided only underscores this. It shows improvements almost all over, that is sum is significant. His delts and traps were clearly bigger. So was his back and thighs (and stomach). Look at the chest as well, fuller and thus slightly improved. It was almost felt like Yates 92 vs 93 (I said almost).
The numbers regarding bodyweight are clearly misleading as ‘evidence’ (and not the least because they are seldom trustworthy). Take Lee Haney 90 vs 91 as an example. In 90 he said his weight was approximately 259, and in 91 it was around 248. Take a look at pics and movies, or ask those being there. It is clear that he looked smaller and almost ‘skinny-fat and flat’ in 90 as compared to 91, where his condition made him appear much bigger even though he weighed less. Same goes with Ronnie. More muscles/thickness in the right places despite a (slightly) lighter weight.
That aside, I strongly agree with you that if Ronnie 98 showed up in 93 or 95, he would not have beaten Yates. One legacy that Ronnie has provided to judging is the neglecting of calf developments. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, you were damned if you totally lacked calf development. I remember many good bodybuilders that were (perhaps rightfully) overlooked and held back for that reason. I also remember comments on Ronnie; that he had great bodyparts but that he would not reach the top due to lacking calves. If calves were weak it was worse than if other bodyparts were weak. It was considered to throw off the balance and symmetry (which is totally correct). After Ronnie’s reign this is aalmost not an issue anymore. It is clearly much more tolerance among judges and some fans for weak calves.
Had Ronnie showed up in 93 with his 98 version, he would not be good enough to dethrone an improved Yates. If you put both out of context though, it could have gone both ways. With the judging criteria of the early 90s, I think Yates would have won. With the judging criteria of the 2000s, Ronnie would perhaps have won. The judging criteria (how it is interpreted and used) have ‘evolved’ to the worse.   

SF1900

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #224 on: April 14, 2015, 11:34:15 AM »
I'm not obsessed I'm giving my opinion. I think I'm a little more informed than most and it's like explaining things to children , some just never get it though their heads and isn't that what these boards are for?  ???



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