good post... agreed.whenever ive been off- and i mean, for years... i NEVER end up like platz and prince. Still solid, large..even when not even training.went off for 10 years and still didnt drop below 240lb.arms shrunk to 17.5"...down from 20". took about a year to get back to 19 3/4" drug free after 10 years off..completely.a group of buddies have been training on and off like me- we met at university - they are the same. in their early 40s and all look decent. some were completely drug free, others used a bit.all look like they work out..still...and they hardly do.