Author Topic: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses  (Read 19860 times)

Wombat

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2006, 08:13:22 PM »
They could of easily just left the body out in the desert somewhere.  With all the wildlife in the desert and such they would have eaten it in no time.  Plus with the heat, sand, and wind the bones probably would have been gone in no time too.  Hell the easiet thing would have just thrown her into the lake.


yeah i agree..At the very least, they could have picked up a 50 gallon drum, filled it with Coca Cola and then buried the drum in the dessert...go back in a week and dump the the cola into the earth...I think i learned that in 7th grade science class...the teacher took a t-bone steak put coke in a pot and in 2 days it was gone...I guess Craig should have hung out with grade schoolers..

pumpster

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2006, 08:14:01 PM »
Craig & Kell should have spent more time watching TV. According to the following article, they go right to the head of the "dumb criminal" class:

'The CSI effect'

TV drama is how-to guide for killers on covering up crime scenes

When Tammy Klein began investigating crime scenes eight years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a killer to use bleach to clean up a bloody mess.

Today, the use of bleach, which destroys DNA, is not unusual in a planned homicide, said the senior criminalist from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

Klein and other experts attribute such sophistication to television crime dramas like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation," which give criminals helpful tips on how to cover up evidence.

Prosecutors have complained for years about "the CSI effect" on juries -- an expectation in every trial for the type of high-tech forensic evidence the show's investigators uncover. It also appears the popular show and its two spinoffs could be affecting how some crimes are committed. "They're actually educating these potential killers even more," said Capt. Ray Peavy, also of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and head of the homicide division. "Sometimes I believe it may even encourage them when they see how simple it is to get away with on television."

A man charged in a recent double-homicide in northeast Ohio was a "CSI" fan and went to great lengths to cover his tracks, according to an affidavit filed by Trumbull County prosecutors.
Jermaine "Maniac" McKinney, 25, allegedly broke into a house, killed a mother and daughter and used bleach to remove their blood from his hands, prosecutors said. He also allegedly covered the interior of a getaway car with blankets to avoid transferring blood.

Prosecutors said McKinney burned the bodies, his clothing and removed his cigarette butts -- which would contain his DNA -- from the crime scene.

According to the affidavit, he also tried to throw some evidence into a lake, including a crowbar used to bludgeon one of the victims. The lake was frozen though and he shouted a profanity when the crowbar remained on the surface.

Investigators later recovered the evidence. McKinney, who was indicted this month on two counts of aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and other charges, could face the death penalty if convicted.

Cases where suspects burn and tamper with evidence seem to be increasing, said Chuck Morrow, chief of the criminal division in the Trumbull County Prosecutor's office.
"People are getting more sophisticated with making sure they're not leaving trace evidence at crime scenes," Morrow said.

Klein said most crimes aren't well planned and that detailed attention to prevent leaving trace evidence typically occurs in cases where someone has killed a family member or business partner.
"For the most part, our killings involve gang bangers who for the most part are pretty stupid," she said.

Sophisticated planning and concealment of evidence are aberrations, not the norm, said Larry Pozner, former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

Yet, in the six years since CBS, which did not return phone calls seeking comment, introduced "CSI," there's been a trend of fewer clues like hair, cigarette butts and the killer's blood left behind at crime scenes, Peavy said.

The more sophisticated the television story lines get, the better equipped criminals will be, Peavy said, adding that he never watches "CSI" because it's too unrealistic.

Wombat

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2006, 08:26:24 PM »
Craig & Kell should have spent more time watching TV. According to the following article, they go right to the head of the "dumb criminal" class:
'The CSI effect'
TV drama is how-to guide for killers on covering up crime scenes
When Tammy Klein began investigating crime scenes eight years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a killer to use bleach to clean up a bloody mess.
Today, the use of bleach, which destroys DNA, is not unusual in a planned homicide, said the senior criminalist from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
Klein and other experts attribute such sophistication to television crime dramas like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation," which give criminals helpful tips on how to cover up evidence.
Prosecutors have complained for years about "the CSI effect" on juries -- an expectation in every trial for the type of high-tech forensic evidence the show's investigators uncover. It also appears the popular show and its two spinoffs could be affecting how some crimes are committed. "They're actually educating these potential killers even more," said Capt. Ray Peavy, also of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and head of the homicide division. "Sometimes I believe it may even encourage them when they see how simple it is to get away with on television."
A man charged in a recent double-homicide in northeast Ohio was a "CSI" fan and went to great lengths to cover his tracks, according to an affidavit filed by Trumbull County prosecutors.
Jermaine "Maniac" McKinney, 25, allegedly broke into a house, killed a mother and daughter and used bleach to remove their blood from his hands, prosecutors said. He also allegedly covered the interior of a getaway car with blankets to avoid transferring blood.
Prosecutors said McKinney burned the bodies, his clothing and removed his cigarette butts -- which would contain his DNA -- from the crime scene.
According to the affidavit, he also tried to throw some evidence into a lake, including a crowbar used to bludgeon one of the victims. The lake was frozen though and he shouted a profanity when the crowbar remained on the surface.
Investigators later recovered the evidence. McKinney, who was indicted this month on two counts of aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and other charges, could face the death penalty if convicted.
Cases where suspects burn and tamper with evidence seem to be increasing, said Chuck Morrow, chief of the criminal division in the Trumbull County Prosecutor's office.
"People are getting more sophisticated with making sure they're not leaving trace evidence at crime scenes," Morrow said.
Klein said most crimes aren't well planned and that detailed attention to prevent leaving trace evidence typically occurs in cases where someone has killed a family member or business partner.
"For the most part, our killings involve gang bangers who for the most part are pretty stupid," she said.
Sophisticated planning and concealment of evidence are aberrations, not the norm, said Larry Pozner, former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
Yet, in the six years since CBS, which did not return phone calls seeking comment, introduced "CSI," there's been a trend of fewer clues like hair, cigarette butts and the killer's blood left behind at crime scenes, Peavy said.
The more sophisticated the television story lines get, the better equipped criminals will be, Peavy said, adding that he never watches "CSI" because it's too unrealistic.

yeah that stuff is pretty wild...I always said to myself that those make up artist and guys that make fat suits for hollywood and shoes that fit you but leave a print of 4 sizes smaller or larger then your own...fake tatoos, fake scars and what not could go rob banks all day long...leave fake evidence like some poor saps hair that you pulled out in a club while he was all drunk dancing only to be left at a crime scene on purpose...

buffalo

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2006, 06:31:48 AM »
That's why police know that 90-95% of the time, the suspect is someone very close to the victim.
so when Joe Blows hair is used on the crime scene, if he has had no relationship to the victim it can be easily eliminated
Serial killings are not as common, althought they do get alot of attention
total destruction of evidence will become more difficult as technology advances.  Genuine Transfer of Evidence almost always occurs whether the perp knows it or not.  Aside from material that would rveal dna, there are carpet fibers (one of the things that has caught several serial killers inlcuding Bobby Joe Long & Wayne Williams),bite marks that can be matched up to suspects teeth, the infamous purchase trail (kelly buying lighter fluid on camera),
it could be a million different things and it's just down to the detectives and the med examiners office not to overlook those things
It's viewing the big picture..motive, relationship, victimology, etc
But as long as you have an experienced med examiner...forensic pathologist..he can see through cover-ups..albeit with perhaps some difficulty

Childish///AMG

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2006, 07:39:15 AM »
Yes, a seasoned person who takes pride in their "Job" will be able to look through
attempts at cover-ups. I was watching a show over the weekend about shody
work and how these blunders resulted in innocent people being sent to prison.

LLES

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2006, 09:07:03 AM »
yeah i agree..At the very least, they could have picked up a 50 gallon drum, filled it with Coca Cola and then buried the drum in the dessert...go back in a week and dump the the cola into the earth...I think i learned that in 7th grade science class...the teacher took a t-bone steak put coke in a pot and in 2 days it was gone...I guess Craig should have hung out with grade schoolers..



Yeah getting a 55 gallon drum (if he had one just laying around in the garage), digging a hole (provided they have shovels & picks handy,not to mention trying to dig while your F'ed up), putting the body in it & filling it with approx 25-30 gallons of Coca-Cola (50-60 or so 2 liter bottles, not to mention buying & transporting the girl,drum & the cola)& then burying it ,wouldn't have taken any time or effort at all. Why didn't they think of that. ::)

pumpster

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2006, 09:40:31 AM »
A bomb attack along the strip made to look like terrorism would've helped too. Then no one would've noticed someone driving down the road with a huge 55 gallon drum.
The perfect crime? ;D

onlyme

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2006, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote
Yeah getting a 55 gallon drum (if he had one just laying around in the garage), digging a hole (provided they have shovels & picks handy,not to mention trying to dig while your F'ed up), putting the body in it & filling it with approx 25-30 gallons of Coca-Cola (50-60 or so 2 liter bottles, not to mention buying & transporting the girl,drum & the cola)& then burying it ,wouldn't have taken any time or effort at all. Why didn't they think of that.

Maybe they don't drink soda. 

LLES

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2006, 10:55:54 AM »
Diet cola I'm sure,but maybe Wombat knows if diet is as strong as regular.

stuntmovie

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2006, 12:07:35 PM »
Appears that we have a good number of defective detectives coming up with pretty original ideas about this Titus situation, but I think that the defense is going to attempt to rip it all apart on technicalities of every sort including the large number of reasonable comments made on this Board.

I still say that a lot of us are going to be very pissed off with some of the "stuff" that is going to be brought to court in defense of the acused(s).

And even more pissed off when some of those sitting in the jury box start to believe it.

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2006, 12:54:16 PM »
The blood of the knifed victims was found inside the car that OJ drove, but he wasn't convicted of their murders in the criminal trial.  He had something that Craig & Kelly don't, though: a race card.  & the BB card they DO have will not work in their favor at the trial unless the jury is composed of hardcore gymrats, which is unlikely. 

WorldGym2006

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2006, 02:52:09 PM »
The blood of the knifed victims was found inside the car that OJ drove, but he wasn't convicted of their murders in the criminal trial.  He had something that Craig & Kelly don't, though: a race card.  & the BB card they DO have will not work in their favor at the trial unless the jury is composed of hardcore gymrats, which is unlikely. 

I think you left out the most important factor in OJ-1.5 million dollars in lawyer money.

Makes no difference if you don't have the race card to play or not-if you have 1.5 mil to spend you will get a good defense.

pumpster

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2006, 03:25:35 PM »
Don't forget OJ's good fortune re: jury selection that the LA DA could've but didn't overturn, and one of the lamest prosecution efforts in recent memory.

They didn't even think to get OJ to try on the gloves beforehand to ensure that the gloves hadn't shrunk!

IF Craig can get this kind of ineptitude, they have a serious shot.

buffalo

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2006, 03:43:07 PM »
The only way the OJ trial will have any relevance to Craig's trial is if the defense is able to fill the jury box with little wannabe bodybuilders from las vegas who think Craig is da shit and will vote him Not Guilty just so they can get his autograph, have him give them training tips, and reveal to them his secret pre contest diet!!   

WorldGym2006

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2006, 04:23:58 PM »
Don't forget OJ's good fortune re: jury selection that the LA DA could've but didn't overturn, and one of the lamest prosecution efforts in recent memory.
They didn't even think to get OJ to try on the gloves beforehand to ensure that the gloves hadn't shrunk!
IF Craig can get this kind of ineptitude, they have a serious shot.

I would agree that the OJ case was the "Pefect Storm" for getting off....

1- Marcia Clark as prosecutor, who fucked up a slam dunk case any third year law school student could make.

2- A jury that distrusted the police-and with good reason. But, Clark could have removed many of the sypathetic jurors with perempatory challenges.

3- Lots of cash to buy the best defense lawyers.

4- Cant leave out Mark Furman-a huge factor considering he was caught perjuring himself on the stand.

Wombat

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2006, 08:10:53 PM »
Yeah getting a 55 gallon drum (if he had one just laying around in the garage), digging a hole (provided they have shovels & picks handy,not to mention trying to dig while your F'ed up), putting the body in it & filling it with approx 25-30 gallons of Coca-Cola (50-60 or so 2 liter bottles, not to mention buying & transporting the girl,drum & the cola)& then burying it ,wouldn't have taken any time or effort at all. Why didn't they think of that. ::)
yeah i hear ya but your assuming that they would have to get rid of the body like within a few hours..They could have had their buddy dig the hole while Craig went to find a 50 gallon drum or screw it go steal someone metal trash barrel..All while Kelly went to 5-6 diff stores picking up many 2 liters at every store(paying cash:) )...I don't see that taking longer then a few hours...but they would have had days to do it if need be...But being F cked up im sure messed with their thinking...I would have thought the opposite would happen to a convicted felon like Craig who must have thought of so many different ways of transportting gear over the mexican border just years ago should have come up with something better then something so silly as what they did...But as they say meth can really fu k with your head...

Wombat

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2006, 08:24:07 PM »
A bomb attack along the strip made to look like terrorism would've helped too. Then no one would've noticed someone driving down the road with a huge 55 gallon drum.
The perfect crime? ;D


lets see i bet it would take me no longer then 30 min to drive to a park any where around there and grab a metal trash barrel...Throw it in the back seat of a car at night or even in the back of a pickup...Its a trash barrel...People see them all the time..

bigdumbbell

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2006, 09:31:25 PM »
yeah i hear ya but your assuming that they would have to get rid of the body like within a few hours..They could have had their buddy dig the hole while Craig went to find a 50 gallon drum or screw it go steal someone metal trash barrel..All while Kelly went to 5-6 diff stores picking up many 2 liters at every store(paying cash:) )...I don't see that taking longer then a few hours...but they would have had days to do it if need be...But being F cked up im sure messed with their thinking...I would have thought the opposite would happen to a convicted felon like Craig who must have thought of so many different ways of transportting gear over the mexican border just years ago should have come up with something better then something so silly as what they did...But as they say meth can really fu k with your head...

meth creates false over confidence so when applied to narcissistic personality disorder some fcuked up shit can happen

Don Miracle

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2006, 10:09:41 PM »
meth creates false over confidence so when applied to narcissistic personality disorder some fcuked up shit can happen

Boy, isn't that true.  Meth either completely destroys a person with paranoia, or it destroys the opposite way - through uncontrolled, criminal megalomania.  Some of the most outrageous offenses are commited by meth users.

As to the earlier comments about Marcia Clark: From what I understand, it's common knowledge in the L.A. legal scene that Marcia Clark was hopelessly addicted to coke when she was assigned to the O.J. case.  Stories differ as to whether she'd stopped using for the case (thereby suffering withdrawl symptoms during crucial stages of the trial), attempted to stop using for the trial and/or kept using. 

But whatever happened, a cocaine addiction certainly would explain her terrible organizational and researching skills when prosecuting this case - not to mention her insane, gabbling closing argument.

pumpster

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2006, 06:29:25 AM »
Wouldn't explain the overall lapses & ineptitude of others, amateurs like Darden.

Apparently the DA chose the jurors as well as the relocation of the trial to a different demographic, not Clark.

Childish///AMG

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2006, 06:47:56 AM »
Clark as well as Darden had "Superiors",  should have
given more guidance and direction to them. I am sure that this case will turn into a circus once
it makes court tv :o :o

buffalo

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2006, 10:04:18 AM »
Yeah but if found Not Guilty, will Craig be willing to invite all the jurors over for a barbecue and sign autographs like OJ did?

Maybe if the jurors are female, under the age of 35, willing to do threesomes, willing to get freaky in the jacuzzi, willing to pay $750 bucks for the weekend, and buy a souvenir T-Shirt that says "Craig Swears he was Framed..Everybody is against him & Kelly".

Don Miracle

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2006, 11:09:09 AM »
^LOL...I'm kinda surprised that this case hasn't taken a larger spotlight than it has.

bigdumbbell

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2006, 12:22:25 PM »
^LOL...I'm kinda surprised that this case hasn't taken a larger spotlight than it has.

i think barb-b-que is out of the question given the case circumstances

Richard2004

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Re: 02-26-06: Kelly's statement of innocence corroborated by witnesses
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2006, 03:08:39 PM »
Duhhhh...the overall dim-witted reasoning and logic processes displayed by Titus & Ryan in this particular murder case provide convincing support to the premise that long-term BB drug/'roid use progressively destroys the brain cells...like pot!!