Author Topic: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide  (Read 16924 times)

Necrosis

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 11:03:46 AM »
Yes.  This case is clearly over.  The officers are obviously guilty.   ::)

Some people never get tired of being wrong.

saying he is wrong is implying you know the correct answer, which must be they are innocent. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Dos Equis

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 11:12:45 AM »
saying he is wrong is implying you know the correct answer, which must be they are innocent. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

That's absurd.  I don't know if they are guilty or innocent.  Nobody does as this stage.  That's the point. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 01:49:00 PM »
Noooooooooooooooooooooo.

Quite a sick, disgusting step for you to make there. 

But if he's illegally imprisoned, and denied medical attention, people on getbig should stop blowing them 24/7 already.  They're lawbreaking jerks that wipe ass with constitution: FACT.

Beyond that, anyone defending them might as well be giving handjobs to bin laden, because they hate america equally.

telling myself why bother as I type this but.... just incase there are rational people reading these remarks..

The arrest itself will likely not be an issue. I say this because there is question as to whether the knife is illegal or not. If it is even remotely questionable, the "good faith" clause will likely cover the officer on that.

Individually, there is likely culpability on the officers parts in varying degrees. I won't be surprised and expect a few of the charges to either be reduced or dropped as the process proceeds and information is forthcoming. Ultimately I expect a couple of the officers who had the most information and the greatest opportunity to recognize the distress and notify medical to be held accountable for it. 

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 12:51:21 AM »
the grand jury looked at the evidence and decided to charge them....

there may be some merit... they have seen a shitload of evidence and statements that we haven't.  They DO know more than us, and they say it's time for trial.

Michael Brown/ferguson/exaggerating cop never made it this far.  May be something to this one.

Necrosis

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2015, 04:59:41 AM »
That's absurd.  I don't know if they are guilty or innocent.  Nobody does as this stage.  That's the point. 

you said he was wrong, do you not remember what you said. How can you say someone is wrong if you do not know the truth?

Again you are making my point. no one knows, he may very well be right.

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2015, 09:40:12 AM »
saying he is wrong is implying you know the correct answer, which must be they are innocent. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

great point.  the prosecutor and grand jury seem to not think i'm wrong.

Agnostic007

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2015, 11:58:28 AM »
great point.  the prosecutor and grand jury seem to not think i'm wrong.

 Except that ..  The grand jury looks to see if there is enough evidence to support going forward with the trial ..  That is a world of difference between a conviction and labeling them lawbreaking scumbags .  So I agree with the position that no, you don't know if they are guilty or not and no one at this point does. There is enough evidence to warrant a trial to present the facts to a jury at this point .  Seems odd that you are ready to convict on a grand jury indictment however the Ferguson grand jury did not see enough evidence to go forward and do you have a problem with that. You need to make up your mind

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2015, 12:38:40 PM »
Except that ..  The grand jury looks to see if there is enough evidence to support going forward with the trial ..  That is a world of difference between a conviction and labeling them lawbreaking scumbags .  So I agree with the position that no, you don't know if they are guilty or not and no one at this point does. There is enough evidence to warrant a trial to present the facts to a jury at this point .  Seems odd that you are ready to convict on a grand jury indictment however the Ferguson grand jury did not see enough evidence to go forward and do you have a problem with that. You need to make up your mind

i'm ready to convict because these 6 cops' inaction let a man die while he begged repeatedly for medical attention.

the minute it's "okay" to deny prisoners  medical care is the minute we no longer live in America.

Agnostic007

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Re: Officers indicted in death of Freddie Gray
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2015, 12:40:58 PM »
i'm ready to convict because these 6 cops' inaction let a man die while he begged repeatedly for medical attention.

the minute it's "okay" to deny prisoners  medical care is the minute we no longer live in America.

 That's why we don't allow emotions to trump facts and evidence when making decisions like guilt or innocence ..  You are ready to convict them all on all charges when you don't know what level of involvement each officer had with the situation or information they had .

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2015, 04:55:36 PM »
It's a bullshit charge and they know it.

Now we know it's NOT a bullshit charge.  He was in the police van unrestrained, and that was not included in the report.  Boom, you wanted evidence, now you have it.




Autopsy of Freddie Gray shows 'high-energy' impact

Freddie Gray suffered a single "high-energy injury" — like those seen in shallow-water diving incidents — most likely caused when the police van in which he was riding suddenly decelerated, according to a copy of the autopsy report obtained by The Baltimore Sun.

The state medical examiner's office concluded that Gray's death could not be ruled an accident, and was instead a homicide, because officers failed to follow safety procedures "through acts of omission."

Though Gray was loaded into the van on his belly, the medical examiner surmised that he may have gotten to his feet and was thrown into the wall during an abrupt change in direction. He was not belted in, but his wrists and ankles were shackled, making him "at risk for an unsupported fall during acceleration or deceleration of the van."

Dos Equis

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2015, 05:20:40 PM »
What exactly does this prove?

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 08:54:25 PM »
What exactly does this prove?

it proves that the pro-zimmerman idiots that reflexively defended the cops were pretty wrong about it.   

It proves the indictment saying they brake tested his ass was true.

It proves he truly needed medical attention when 5 or 6 of those cops denied it.

It proves he was not secured in the van as required by law.

And it removes any hope of "accident" and clearly shows "on purpose".



True, there will always be the types that will defend the cops, even as a few of them turn states' evidence, rat on each other, and clearly lay out the case he was denied medical care, tossed in van improperly, and brake tested to teach him not to run.  Even then, the hermann-cain believers will still decry the cops innocence.  Ever as the cops cry on the stand and admit guilt before sentencing, there will be the silly goofballs on getbig saying they were framed by a big conspiracy.

Dos Equis

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2015, 09:02:29 PM »
it proves that the pro-zimmerman idiots that reflexively defended the cops were pretty wrong about it.   

It proves the indictment saying they brake tested his ass was true.

It proves he truly needed medical attention when 5 or 6 of those cops denied it.

It proves he was not secured in the van as required by law.

And it removes any hope of "accident" and clearly shows "on purpose".



True, there will always be the types that will defend the cops, even as a few of them turn states' evidence, rat on each other, and clearly lay out the case he was denied medical care, tossed in van improperly, and brake tested to teach him not to run.  Even then, the hermann-cain believers will still decry the cops innocence.  Ever as the cops cry on the stand and admit guilt before sentencing, there will be the silly goofballs on getbig saying they were framed by a big conspiracy.

Really?  Cool story bro. 

I thought you were going to say it proved this:


We all know what happened, police beat his ass, broke something, had an "oh shit!' moment and voila, the pressure hit and one of them blabbed on the other - rightfully so!


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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2015, 09:18:17 PM »
Really?  Cool story bro. 

I thought you were going to say it proved this:


it proves the cops lied.  Period. 

You can try to deterioriate it into "well, HOW did they kill him....?" 

But they killed him, they created the injury and they denied him medical help.  Undeniable now.  Cops lied.

Dos Equis

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2015, 09:23:26 AM »
it proves the cops lied.  Period. 

You can try to deterioriate it into "well, HOW did they kill him....?" 

But they killed him, they created the injury and they denied him medical help.  Undeniable now.  Cops lied.

So you think this autopsy report proves your invented conclusion that the "police beat his ass, broke something"?  Even though the report says an accident caused his injury?  And even though the only reason the death was originally ruled a homicide was because the medical examiner was told this dude was not buckled up? 

Sheesh.  That is the nutty conspiracy theory mind at work right there.     

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2015, 11:07:10 AM »
So you think this autopsy report proves your invented conclusion that the "police beat his ass, broke something"?  Even though the report says an accident caused his injury?  And even though the only reason the death was originally ruled a homicide was because the medical examiner was told this dude was not buckled up? 

Sheesh.  That is the nutty conspiracy theory mind at work right there.     

Cops killed him and denied him medical attention as he laid dying.  No amount of kneepadding can change that.  you want them to be innocent so bad, but they're indicted, the autopsy shows homicide... at some point ya gotta accept we have shitty cops lying & breaking the law here, plain and simple.

Agnostic007

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 12:00:00 PM »
I listened to the report yesterday on CNN. They were showing the video of the cops taking him to the van initially. He couldn't walk. If I were the defense lawyer for the cops I would argue that

1. Freddie had a pre-existing injury to that area that was so severe he was on doctors orders to remain on bed rest
2. He was clearly suffering before being placed in the van. His injury most likely occurred when he was tasered and fell. Possibly into that 2 foot brick wall
3. There is no clear evidence the cops "brake tested".

Can't defend them on not getting him medical attention from the get go though.. I've called EMS hundreds of times to check out someone who claimed/or obviously was injured or in distress. It costs me nothing and it removes liability. Someone will likely be held accountable for that and likely not securing him in the van regardless of whether it caused injury or not. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2015, 12:04:21 PM »
Cops killed him and denied him medical attention as he laid dying.  No amount of kneepadding can change that.  you want them to be innocent so bad, but they're indicted, the autopsy shows homicide... at some point ya gotta accept we have shitty cops lying & breaking the law here, plain and simple.

I don't want anyone to be guilty or innocent.  Haven't gotten into the details yet.  I'll have a position after I've done that.

One thing is certain already though:  you are doing what you do, making up facts, lying, and overall being wrong as the day is long.

Dos Equis

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2015, 12:06:06 PM »
I listened to the report yesterday on CNN. They were showing the video of the cops taking him to the van initially. He couldn't walk. If I were the defense lawyer for the cops I would argue that

1. Freddie had a pre-existing injury to that area that was so severe he was on doctors orders to remain on bed rest
2. He was clearly suffering before being placed in the van. His injury most likely occurred when he was tasered and fell. Possibly into that 2 foot brick wall
3. There is no clear evidence the cops "brake tested".

Can't defend them on not getting him medical attention from the get go though.. I've called EMS hundreds of times to check out someone who claimed/or obviously was injured or in distress. It costs me nothing and it removes liability. Someone will likely be held accountable for that and likely not securing him in the van regardless of whether it caused injury or not. 


I haven't read a lot about this case.  What's the evidence that they broke this back, killed him, etc.?

Agnostic007

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2015, 12:08:06 PM »
I haven't read a lot about this case.  What's the evidence that they broke this back, killed him, etc.?

that at some point he suffered a high impact blow.. and that he was in police custody at one point.. and that later he died. Other than that.. it's speculation. No doubt they dropped the ball on medical attention, should have secured him in the van.. but the other allegations, we'll have to wait.   

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2015, 12:11:54 PM »
that at some point he suffered a high impact blow.. and that he was in police custody at one point.. and that later he died. Other than that.. it's speculation. No doubt they dropped the ball on medical attention, should have secured him in the van.. but the other allegations, we'll have to wait.   

That's it?  And they charged the driver with murder??  I thought there was more to it than that.  Sounds awfully weak.

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2015, 12:56:52 PM »
I, like most if not all the people here are going on news reports of the incident. There have been many situations in my career where information being broadcast, even by fellow officers within the department, turned out not to be accurate and was based on 2nd and 3rd hand information. If at the end of the day they have an investigation that shows a preponderance of evidence that all the allegations are in fact true, I'm good with that as well. I don't know what all happened, but what I can see for myself is the man was already showing trouble standing/walking prior to being placed in the van.     

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2015, 01:01:42 PM »
I, like most if not all the people here are going on news reports of the incident. There have been many situations in my career where information being broadcast, even by fellow officers within the department, turned out not to be accurate and was based on 2nd and 3rd hand information. If at the end of the day they have an investigation that shows a preponderance of evidence that all the allegations are in fact true, I'm good with that as well. I don't know what all happened, but what I can see for myself is the man was already showing trouble standing/walking prior to being placed in the van.     

Good man.  I try and let the facts come in before forming an opinion.  The Zimmerman/Martin and Ferguson matters are prime examples.  Initial reports and allegations were not true.

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2015, 01:06:21 PM »
Good man.  I try and let the facts come in before forming an opinion.  The Zimmerman/Martin and Ferguson matters are prime examples.  Initial reports and allegations were not true.

Really can't go wrong doing that..

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Re: Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2015, 07:34:27 PM »
Source: Witness Told Cops That Freddie Gray Hit His Head Against Van
Jun 30, 2015
As seen on The Kelly File

New evidence has emerged in the criminal case against six Baltimore police officers who have been charged in connection with Freddie Gray’s death.

“The Kelly File” has learned that there’s conflicting information surrounding witness Donta Allen’s story.

The Washington Post first reported that Allen, who was the only person in the police van with Gray, reported to authorities that he could hear Gray trying to injure himself.

Allen later denied that story to reporters, claiming that he only heard a little banging and calling the police “crooked.”

Now, a source close to the case tells “The Kelly File” that there’s video of Allen telling police that Gray was hitting his head against the van and “sounded like a madman.”

Watch more from “The Kelly File” above.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/06/30/source-witness-donta-allen-said-video-he-could-hear-freddie-gray-banging-head-against