Jeb Bush backpedals on Iraq war answer

[bears]

again, you want to make this "but hilary said..."

hilary admits the war was a mistake, and Jeb does not.

that is what matters here.  When the next big war comes against syria or Iran, hilary is more likely to say NO.  Jeb, on the other hand, will charge right in.

but it wasn't a mistake.  it was a fabricated war for the purpose of gaining a strong hold on Iraq's oil no matter what the cost in human lives.  And Hillary voted for it......and cast her vote with conviction.  And she knew all the details.  She had been monitoring it closely for over 10 years.  her words.

I'm sorry but liberals just can't have it both ways.  either it was a mistake by Bush, Hillary and countless others........or it was a fabricated war for oil by Bush, Hillary and countless others.

 

[Straw Man]

but it wasn't a mistake.  it was a fabricated war for the purpose of gaining a strong hold on Iraq's oil no matter what the cost in human lives.  And Hillary voted for it......and cast her vote with conviction.  And she knew all the details.  She had been monitoring it closely for over 10 years.  her words.

I'm sorry but liberals just can't have it both ways.  either it was a mistake by Bush, Hillary and countless others........or it was a fabricated war for oil by Bush, Hillary and countless others.

 

only problem with your theory is that it wasn't the Hillary Clinton administration or the Dems that fabricated the "evidence" to instigate the war

[bears]

only problem with your theory is that it wasn't the Hillary Clinton administration or the Dems that fabricated the "evidence" to instigate the war

if you're saying that it was a fabricated war for oil how could you say that?  Was she brainwashed by Bush and the Republicans?  She had been following this issue for over 10 years when she said that.  7-8 years before Bush was even in office.  So if there was a fabrication of evidence of course it was fabricated by her.

What you're saying any rational person without an agenda could not possibly believe.  it just simply doesn't make sense.  as most conspiracy theories don't when looked at with even the slightest bit of objectivity.

[bears]

 "There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm's way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm, and I have absolutely no belief that he will.  I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.
 For now nearly 20 years, the principal reason why women and children in Iraq have suffered, is because of Saddam's leadership.

 The very difficult question for all of us, is how does one bring about the disarmament of someone with such a proven track record of a commitment, if not an obsession, with weapons of mass destruction.

 I ended up voting for the Resolution after carefully reviewing the information and intelligence I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount political or other factors that I didn't believe should be in any way a part of this decision, and it is unfortunate that we are at the point of a potential military action to enforce the resolution.  That is not my preference, it would be far preferable if we had legitimate cooperation from Saddam Hussein, and a willingness on his part to disarm, and to account for his chemical and biological storehouses.


if what you said was true this would simply have to be a lie.

[whork]

Hillary voted in favor of invading Iraq.

I think the real "conspiracy", lies in the fact that the phony intelligence pointed toward Saddam having anything to do with 9/11.

[240 is Back]

but it wasn't a mistake.  it was a fabricated war for the purpose of gaining a strong hold on Iraq's oil no matter what the cost in human lives.  And Hillary voted for it......and cast her vote with conviction.  And she knew all the details.  She had been monitoring it closely for over 10 years.  her words.

I'm sorry but liberals just can't have it both ways.  either it was a mistake by Bush, Hillary and countless others........or it was a fabricated war for oil by Bush, Hillary and countless others.

You are making the case that Bush, Cheney and Powell created a major lie, and sold it to the democrats.

They were stupid enough to have faith in a republican?   That is what you're saying?  They were dumb enough to believe a repub who said the smoking gun was a mushroom cloud?

You are painting Hilary as a gullible victim who has since learned not to believe faulty republcan lies.   

[whork]

You are making the case that Bush, Cheney and Powell created a major lie, and sold it to the democrats.

They were stupid enough to have faith in a republican?   That is what you're saying?  They were dumb enough to believe a repub who said the smoking gun was a mushroom cloud?

You are painting Hilary as a gullible victim who has since learned not to believe faulty republcan lies.   

Hillary, with her experience, should not be so gullible.

[240 is Back]

"There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm's way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm, and I have absolutely no belief that he will.  I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.

this quote is from Sept 2002?

And yes, they DID receive the UN inspections they wanted, months AFTER this quote was made, in feb 2003?

either way, you make a great point.  Repubs made up this war lie, and dems were dumb enouogh to believe it.  
It's 2015 now, and Jeb still wants to beleive that Iraq lie.  others, like hilary, do not.

She doesn't get my vote, I cannot stand her, but for the argument on this thread, jeb looks pretty bad.

[240 is Back]

Hillary, with her experience, should not be so gullible.

in 2003, the only people doubting the "official" story on WMD and iraq were conspiracy theorists, remember? 

[bears]

You are making the case that Bush, Cheney and Powell created a major lie, and sold it to the democrats.

They were stupid enough to have faith in a republican?   That is what you're saying?  They were dumb enough to believe a repub who said the smoking gun was a mushroom cloud?

You are painting Hilary as a gullible victim who has since learned not to believe faulty republcan lies.   

she had been closely monitoring this situation for over 10 years.....SHE SAID.  so during her husband's presidency.  The Clinton administration was saying the same shit all during the 90's.  The theory that Democrats were "tricked" by the Bush administration just doesn't hold water based on ..................facts.

"No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing.  He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators."

     Madeleine Albright, President Clinton's Secretary of State
     Town Hall Meeting on Iraq at Ohio State University
     February 18, 1998

[240 is Back]

she had been closely monitoring this situation for over 10 years.....SHE SAID.  so during her husband's presidency.  The Clinton administration was saying the same shit all during the 90's.  The theory that Democrats were "tricked" by the Bush administration just doesn't hold water based on ..................facts.

"No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing.  He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators."

     Madeleine Albright, President Clinton's Secretary of State
     Town Hall Meeting on Iraq at Ohio State University
     February 18, 1998

again, the pre-Feb 2002 quotes were all nullified by the UN inspections.

The whole "even though we didn't find WMD with UN inspections, we should STILL invade" was the nice Bush/Cheney invention that dems fell for.

[bears]

again, the pre-Feb 2002 quotes were all nullified by the UN inspections.

The whole "even though we didn't find WMD with UN inspections, we should STILL invade" was the nice Bush/Cheney invention that dems fell for.

OK but the Iraq Liberation Act was signed by Clinton in 1998.  And it specifically stated,

"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."


because Clinton at that time....before Bush was even in office.......believed Sadaam had WMD's as well. 

And it was my understanding that the 2003 UN inspection was greatly limited by Sadaam's regime not cooperating and that's when we wanted to attack.  I'm not certain of this but I thought that's how I remembered it.

[Straw Man]

if you're saying that it was a fabricated war for oil how could you say that?  Was she brainwashed by Bush and the Republicans?  She had been following this issue for over 10 years when she said that.  7-8 years before Bush was even in office.  So if there was a fabrication of evidence of course it was fabricated by her.

What you're saying any rational person without an agenda could not possibly believe.  it just simply doesn't make sense.  as most conspiracy theories don't when looked at with even the slightest bit of objectivity.

fabricated war ...yes

I don't know the reason but we don't seem to have gotten much oil

If I had to guess a reason it would be to loot the Treasury of TRILLIONS to enrich various business interests (and shit maybe even drive up the price of oil)

regarding how Hillary and the Dems got duped (along with the rest of the country) it's pretty well documented

there was also that thing that happened on 9-11-2001 that clouded a lot of peoples common sense

[Straw Man]

OK but the Iraq Liberation Act was signed by Clinton in 1998.  And it specifically stated,

"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."


because Clinton at that time....before Bush was even in office.......believed Sadaam had WMD's as well. 

And it was my understanding that the 2003 UN inspection was greatly limited by Sadaam's regime not cooperating and that's when we wanted to attack.  I'm not certain of this but I thought that's how I remembered it.

turns out they were both wrong but Clinton didn't fabricate the "evidence" when he couldn't find any

[bears]

turns out they were both wrong but Clinton didn't fabricate the "evidence" when he couldn't find any

there's no solid proof that the Bush administration did either.  That's just something liberals say to displace blame.  Again, it's just way too convenient Everyone (Republicans Democrats) thought the same thing about Sadaam from 1992 to 2003.  And you're right China and Russia ended up winning the rights to all the Iraqi oil anyway so it didn't work out.

[240 is Back]

there's no solid proof that the Bush administration did either.  That's just something liberals say to displace blame.  Again, it's just way too convenient Everyone (Republicans Democrats) thought the same thing about Sadaam from 1992 to 2003.  And you're right China and Russia ended up winning the rights to all the Iraqi oil anyway so it didn't work out.

clinton didn't invade iraq over fabricated evidence - Bush did.

and we all remember Donald Rumsfeld and the famous "any evidence iraq was involved with 9/11, real or otherwise" 

[bears]

clinton didn't invade iraq over fabricated evidence - Bush did.

and we all remember Donald Rumsfeld and the famous "any evidence iraq was involved with 9/11, real or otherwise"  

You can believe that fine.  But if you do you also have to accept the fact that Clinton helped fabricate that evidence for the Bush administration.  She was in on this as well.  she says it herself on numerous occasions.  Like I said before I can accept conspiracy theories.  I cannot accept the absolute disregard for FACTS.  You want it both ways and I simply won't let you have it both ways.  because it lacks all logic and disregards 100's of FACTS.  but you've been told this lie over and over and over again until it became truth to you.

your theory simply doesn't hold water.  and I tend to think you know.  you seem to get all stoic when slapped with facts and logic and fall back on "clinton didn't invade iraq over fabricated evidence - Bush did." because that's simply what you feel like you're supposed to believe because its been drilled into your head over and over again on tv and snarky documentaries.

i'm not going to change your mind.  I know.  which is scary considering the facts I laid out but to each his own.

[Straw Man]

You can believe that fine.  But if you do you also have to accept the fact that Clinton helped fabricate that evidence for the Bush administration.  She was in on this as well.  she says it herself on numerous occasions.  Like I said before I can accept conspiracy theories.  I cannot accept the absolute disregard for FACTS.  You want it both ways and I simply won't let you have it both ways.  because it lacks all logic and disregards 100's of FACTS.  but you've been told this lie over and over and over again until it became truth to you.

your theory simply doesn't hold water.  and I tend to think you know.  you seem to get all stoic when slapped with facts and logic and fall back on "clinton didn't invade iraq over fabricated evidence - Bush did." because that's simply what you feel like you're supposed to believe because its been drilled into your head over and over again on tv and snarky documentaries.

i'm not going to change your mind.  I know.  which is scary considering the facts I laid out but to each his own.

please provide some quotes

I'm sure her Republican opponents (who no doubt read this board) will appreciate it too

[bears]

please provide some quotes

I'm sure her Republican opponents (who no doubt read this board) will appreciate it too

 "There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm's way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm, and I have absolutely no belief that he will.  I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.
 For now nearly 20 years, the principal reason why women and children in Iraq have suffered, is because of Saddam's leadership.

 The very difficult question for all of us, is how does one bring about the disarmament of someone with such a proven track record of a commitment, if not an obsession, with weapons of mass destruction.

 I ended up voting for the Resolution after carefully reviewing the information and intelligence I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount political or other factors that I didn't believe should be in any way a part of this decision, and it is unfortunate that we are at the point of a potential military action to enforce the resolution.  That is not my preference, it would be far preferable if we had legitimate cooperation from Saddam Hussein, and a willingness on his part to disarm, and to account for his chemical and biological storehouses.



how can you just dismiss the fact that she said all of this?  she very plainly says that she had been following the actions of Sadaam for over a decade, 7-8 years before Bush was even in office.  She says her vote was based upon her over decade long research in to Sadaam and the opinions of people (Republican and Democrat) who she trusted and that she "cast her vote with conviction".

If she said all this, how can you believe that if there was a conspiracy that she was not in on it?  She had been working on capturing Sadaam well before Bush was in the picture. 

Why would Bill Clinton sign the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 which clearly stated that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime if this was all a fabrication?

What the fuck happened between 1998 and 2002 to make this go from absolute truth to a complete fabrication? 

Again, the fact that you accuse Bush of fabricating a war yet only accuse Hillary of an "error" is beyond ridiculous and is an argument I would expect to hear from a snot nosed freshman in college somewhere being inundated with liberal ideology by the TA she has a crush on.

[bears]

  "In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

 If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."

     President Clinton
     Address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff
     February 17, 1998
 

1998 - clear evidence of a WMD program

2003 - WMD program is a complete fabrication

very simple question .. IS THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

[Straw Man]

"There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm's way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm, and I have absolutely no belief that he will.  I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.
 For now nearly 20 years, the principal reason why women and children in Iraq have suffered, is because of Saddam's leadership.

 The very difficult question for all of us, is how does one bring about the disarmament of someone with such a proven track record of a commitment, if not an obsession, with weapons of mass destruction.

 I ended up voting for the Resolution after carefully reviewing the information and intelligence I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount political or other factors that I didn't believe should be in any way a part of this decision, and it is unfortunate that we are at the point of a potential military action to enforce the resolution.  That is not my preference, it would be far preferable if we had legitimate cooperation from Saddam Hussein, and a willingness on his part to disarm, and to account for his chemical and biological storehouses.



how can you just dismiss the fact that she said all of this?  she very plainly says that she had been following the actions of Sadaam for over a decade, 7-8 years before Bush was even in office.  She says her vote was based upon her over decade long research in to Sadaam and the opinions of people (Republican and Democrat) who she trusted and that she "cast her vote with conviction".

If she said all this, how can you believe that if there was a conspiracy that she was not in on it?  She had been working on capturing Sadaam well before Bush was in the picture. 

Why would Bill Clinton sign the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 which clearly stated that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime if this was all a fabrication?

What the fuck happened between 1998 and 2002 to make this go from absolute truth to a complete fabrication? 

Again, the fact that you accuse Bush of fabricating a war yet only accuse Hillary of an "error" is beyond ridiculous and is an argument I would expect to hear from a snot nosed freshman in college somewhere being inundated with liberal ideology by the TA she has a crush on.

these are your quotes of Hilary helping to "fabricate evidence for the Bush administration "?

please state "the evidence" and then the specific quote where she helped "fabricate it" and also please provide links (can't stress than last one enough - always provide links)

[Straw Man]

 "In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

 If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."

     President Clinton
     Address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff
     February 17, 1998
 

1998 - clear evidence of a WMD program

2003 - WMD program is a complete fabrication

very simple question .. IS THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

please provide links and try using the quote function so I can tell which part of the text is the actual quote that you're wanting me to see

[Dos Equis]

I'm not opposed to believing in a conspiracy theory.  I'm quite certain there are things every day that go on behind closed doors in Washington that the public doesn't know about.  What I cannot tolerate is the conspiracy theorists who cherry pick who they want to make look bad based on their politics with a complete and utter disregard for any facts that toe their political line.  It insults our intelligence.  And no one cares.  

Completely agree. 

[240 is Back]

I'm not opposed to believing in a conspiracy theory.

the iraq war being a bunch of lies... i believe that's still actually a conspiracy theory. 

same with obama lying thru his freakin teeth about how bin laden died - again, if you disagree with obama's fairy tale version, you're a conspiracy theorist.

[bears]

these are your quotes of Hilary helping to "fabricate evidence for the Bush administration "?

please state "the evidence" and then the specific quote where she helped "fabricate it" and also please provide links (can't stress than last one enough - always provide links)

i can't.  and neither can you provide any proof of your allegations.  

please provide proof that the Bush administration fabricated evidence.  Also please provide PROOF that ZERO democrats were aware of it.

I do find it funny how conspiracy theorists like you demand all this proof yet are never willing to offer any of your own.  Like you're absolved from being required to have proof.  because you know....its a cover up.

your theory just makes zero sense.  I've said again and again that I can go with the theory that there was evidence fabricated to go to war.  I don't have religious faith in George fucking Bush. I'm not loyal to politicians like you guys.  I don't know them at all.  They're just dudes on TV to me. For all i know George Bush is fucking a newborn baby as we speak.  But I simply cannot accept that ONLY the Republicans were involved and that ALL of the Democrats like Hillary were just victims of bad information. Especially since Hillary had been involved in monitoring Sadaam for 8 years before Bush even got into office and had said on numerous occasions as did Bill that Sadaam had and was willing to use WMD's.  

I just don't get how you can let yourself believe that after 2000 all of that became a lie but before 2000 it was just the facts.  Like Sadaam all of a sudden saw the fucking light on New years day 2000.  I tend to think it has something to do with believing what's convenient for you to believe.