Jeb Bush backpedals on Iraq war answer

[Jack T. Cross]

BTW, the footage for that was taken from the teacher's personal copy (from what I understand), so it was something that hadn't been seen by the public before.

[bears]

So he permits information that will cause him to have to make that statement.

Why do you suppose he would do that?

so that he can cash in on the hysteria but not actually be held responsible for it in any way. 

[bears]

Did a bit of reading on this, and the F911 idea seems to be that the problem was an "incompetent" administration led by an incompetent person. That's the representation. Here's something common from a movie review, and is mentioned in several other reviews:

just watch 30:30 to 34:30.  4 minutes.  and you tell me what he's getting at.

it sounds really bad.  like awful.  except when someone fact checked all of this and found that it was absolute horse manure.

[Jack T. Cross]

just watch 30:30 to 34:30.  4 minutes.  and you tell me what he's getting at.

it sounds really bad.  like awful.  except when someone fact checked all of this and found that it was absolute horse manure.

I don't know. Saudis have lots of money?

It looks like he's deliberately wasting time, to me. He's making more worthless minutes to increase the length of the movie.

[bears]

I don't know. Saudis have lots of money?
It looks like he's deliberately wasting time, to me. He's making more worthless minutes to increase the length of the movie.

seriously?  you don't think he's implying something there?  really? 

do you think that was the highest grossing documentary of all time because Michael Moore implied that Saudis have lots of $$?  now you're just deflecting.  stop it.

[Jack T. Cross]

seriously?  you don't think he's implying something there?  really?  

do you think that was the highest grossing documentary of all time because Michael Moore implied that Saudis have lots of $$?  now you're just deflecting.  stop it.

He doesn't put much effort into convincing anyone of anything, that I can see. If you're saying he'd have someone believe Bush was in on the planning of 911, because a bunch of sleazy Arabs were hanging around kissing people and shaking hands, then why not.

Needless to say, that leaves quite a lot of room for anyone who wants to point to its obvious ridiculousness, too. And meanwhile, he hasn't said anything that wasn't already known by the average person.

So, nope. He hasn't fooled me. How about you?

[bears]

He doesn't put much effort into convincing anyone of anything, that I can see. If you're saying he'd have someone believe Bush was in on the planning of 911, because a bunch of sleazy Arabs were hanging around kissing people and shaking hands, then why not.

Needless to say, that leaves quite a lot of room for anyone who wants to point to its obvious ridiculousness, too. And meanwhile, he hasn't said anything that wasn't already known by the average person.

So, nope. He hasn't fooled me. How about you?

OK

[Jack T. Cross]

OK

He plays people like a fiddle, bears. I can only hope you didn't draw any conclusions whatsoever from Moore, about 911 or any other serious subject. He's a flake and a waste of time

[bears]

He plays people like a fiddle, bears. I can only hope you didn't draw any conclusions whatsoever from Moore, about 911 or any other serious subject. He's a flake and a waste of time

I don't.  he made a shit ton of $$ by doing the documentary but he effectively ended his career too.  after all the lies and half truths came out he still has a cult following but no intelligent person really takes him seriously anymore.     

really the ONLY thing that I want everyone who reads this thread to take away from it is that I simply do not want to hear anyone commenting on a Senator's (Democrat or Republican)record of voting on bills when the next election rolls around.  because apparently no one actually cares how anyone votes on anything.  you can always just say that they were tricked into voting that way by "the bad guys".  you know...because of the conspiracy.....and offer ZERO evidence.  but make the other side provide irrefutable evidence that they were NOT tricked into it.  the outright absence of logic is disturbing to say the least.

[bears]

He plays people like a fiddle, bears. I can only hope you didn't draw any conclusions whatsoever from Moore, about 911 or any other serious subject. He's a flake and a waste of time

also I find it funny how Straw posts a link to a bunch of irrefutable evidence that leading up to the war in Iraq so many people were well aware that Sadaam had no WMD's.  he has quotes all over the place.  for instance Colin powell saying he "has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction."—

Ok.  well then answer this. 

THEN WHY IN SAM FUCKING HELL DID HILLARY, BIDEN, KERRY, LIEBERMAN, EDWARDS, ALL VOTE IN FUCKING FAVOR OF FUCKING ATTACKING FUCKING IRAQ!!

did they miss the meeting?  they were obviously aware that Colin Powell said this.  or was this another secret?   

such bullshit.  i'm seriously getting too old for this shit.

[bears]

Gen. Franks briefs Bush on Iraq war plans. [Date the public knew: 3/5/03]


ok what does this even mean?  how is this evidence?

the more I read this thing the more I lose faith in humanity.

there is zero proof in it that the Republicans kept anything from Hillary, Reid, Biden, etc.  unless you can point it out to me.

it says DATE THE PUBLIC KNEW.  not date the Democratic senators knew.  they were privy to the same shit the Republicans were.  this link has failed on so many levels

[Jack T. Cross]

I don't.  he made a shit ton of $$ by doing the documentary but he effectively ended his career too.  after all the lies and half truths came out he still has a cult following but no intelligent person really takes him seriously anymore.    

From what I'd read the other day (which ended up costing far more effort than what Moore is worth), it was Columbine that drew a lot of heat to him for misrepresenting things. Supposedly, he took it much easier with this one.

So with a Moore movie, besides having to endure 1000-hours of misery, you have to assume you're being lied to, too. What a joy.

really the ONLY thing that I want everyone who reads this thread to take away from it is that I simply do not want to hear anyone commenting on a Senator's (Democrat or Republican)record of voting on bills when the next election rolls around.  because apparently no one actually cares how anyone votes on anything.  you can always just say that they were tricked into voting that way by "the bad guys".  you know...because of the conspiracy.....and offer ZERO evidence.  but make the other side provide irrefutable evidence that they were NOT tricked into it.  the outright absence of logic is disturbing to say the least.

We citizens are the ones being tricked. Those politicians you mentioned know exactly what they're doing.

[bears]

From what I'd read the other day (which ended up costing far more effort than what Moore is worth), it was Columbine that drew a lot of heat to him for misrepresenting things. Supposedly, he took it much easier with this one.

So with a Moore movie, besides having to endure 1000-hours of misery, you have to assume you're being lied to, too. What a joy.

We citizens are the ones being tricked. Those politicians you mentioned know exactly what they're doing.

from what I remember the only thing that was bad I that one was him ambushing Charleton Heston when Heston was like 1,000 years old.  he was slow and couldn't keep up with the argument.  Moore looked like kind of an asshole.  I don't remember much else being that bad about that one.  I actually really liked it.  I don't have a strong opinion either way on gun control though.  I live in a suburb that is literally one block from the city of Chicago and I work in Chicago.  we have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.  and everyone is shooting the fuck out of everything.  so gun legislation has never meant that much to me.

[bears]

From what I'd read the other day (which ended up costing far more effort than what Moore is worth), it was Columbine that drew a lot of heat to him for misrepresenting things. Supposedly, he took it much easier with this one.

So with a Moore movie, besides having to endure 1000-hours of misery, you have to assume you're being lied to, too. What a joy.

We citizens are the ones being tricked. Those politicians you mentioned know exactly what they're doing.

and that's my whole point.  ALL of those politicians need to be held responsible or none at all.  I think it's infantile to claim that only one party is responsible when they all sign a damn bill to go to war. 

and if there were secrets being held from the Democrats by the Republicans then why the fuck do we want a bunch of clueless Democrats in there anyway.  They're obviously very easy to dupe right?  I mean shit GWB tricked them.  and he's an idiot right?

again.  it makes ZERO sense to me.

[Jack T. Cross]

and that's my whole point.  ALL of those politicians need to be held responsible or none at all.  I think it's infantile to claim that only one party is responsible when they all sign a damn bill to go to war. 

and if there were secrets being held from the Democrats by the Republicans then why the fuck do we want a bunch of clueless Democrats in there anyway.  They're obviously very easy to dupe right?  I mean shit GWB tricked them.  and he's an idiot right?

again.  it makes ZERO sense to me.

Makes zero sense to me, too. But that's mob mentality, for you.

[Jack T. Cross]

from what I remember the only thing that was bad I that one was him ambushing Charleton Heston when Heston was like 1,000 years old.  he was slow and couldn't keep up with the argument.  Moore looked like kind of an asshole.  I don't remember much else being that bad about that one.  I actually really liked it.  I don't have a strong opinion either way on gun control though.  I live in a suburb that is literally one block from the city of Chicago and I work in Chicago.  we have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.  and everyone is shooting the fuck out of everything.  so gun legislation has never meant that much to me.

No, look it up. I found it repeatedly mentioned that he butchered the truth in Columbine, and the backlash from that caused him to temper this one.

Could it be your fexibility with the idea of gun-control that allowed the misrepresentations to go unnoticed by you?

[bears]

No, look it up. I found it repeatedly mentioned that he butchered the truth in Columbine, and the backlash from that caused him to temper this one.

Could it be your fexibility with the idea of gun-control that allowed the misrepresentations to go unnoticed by you?

I don't know.  maybe.  what did he screw up with Columbine?  i'm sure it was something with info about the kids.

[Jack T. Cross]

You've caused me to look much more closely at Moore than I would've otherwise had reason to. And sad to say, his work is much worse than I thought (hadn't even realized that could be possible, truthfully).

I don't know.  maybe.  what did he screw up with Columbine?  i'm sure it was something with info about the kids.

No, I think it's more than a maybe. Because as shit as 911 is, it is actually held as an example of Moore correcting his movie-making practices from Columbine. A real laugh, I know, since both movies are worthless.

If you look for examples of dishonesty in Columbine, particularly, though, you'll quickly find so many that it becomes ridiculous. He pulled SO much bullshit in the movie, that it is 100% unacceptable. As a matter of fact, it's insulting for him to expect anyone to watch it, considering he made it up as he went along. And while 911 may have been a step up from that, it doesn't say much.

So...since you watched Columbine and are probably interested in particulars, I'd suggest you spend a little time looking at the aftermath. You might learn something about yourself and why you fell for it. If you're concerned about having to sort through lies over lies, a good starting point might be David Hardy out of Arizona (hardylaw.net). He is careful with what he says (unlike practically every other person on the planet these days, it seems). Unfortunately, he just scratches the surface against the huge amount of information available - but there are only so many hours in a lifetime, I guess.

[Jack T. Cross]

That's hardylaw.net (fixed)