Author Topic: only atheists are allowed to post in this thread.  (Read 106762 times)

polychronopolous

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #450 on: June 06, 2015, 07:02:21 PM »
I had written a large post, addressing the points that I thought tbombz had made, but then I realized that all the stuff in his post is basically a straight copy-paste from the buffoons at creation.org.

I'm happy to debate and discuss anything with anybody, but I expect them to do so with their own voice, not by acting as electronic carbon paper. What you are doing - copy-pasting other people's thoughts and claiming them as yours - is dishonest and wrong. Not only because you are not giving people attribution for what they wrote but moreso because you tend to present their opinions poorly.

With that said, I'll make some brief comments and take the opportunity to highlight how much of your "post" isn't yours.


Except it's not the same thing. It's not the same to assume that a being that cannot be measured, quantified or even defined doesn't exist. On the other hand, it's absurd to assume that it exists.

You want proof of how absurd it is? There's a supernatural, magical pink unicorn in my back yard. Let's start our discussion based on on that assumption.

 
Oh well... if you say it!

There's nothing wrong assumptions and presuppositions. We assume many things - that the sun won't suddenly go dark, that if we drink rat poison we will become sick, that planting a slice of cheese won't yield a cheese tree. The important this is to be aware of those things and to understand whether the assumptions and suppositions we make are grounded in logic and can be rationally justified.

Science is designed to take personal bias out of the equation. Whether one is a Christian or not has little bearing on whether Indium nitride is a superconductor at extremely low temperatures. 

No he didn't. Darwin made an observation, and formulated a theory that would explain those observations within the context of nature.


You're rambling...


I can't speak for Necrosis, but if I witnessed a "miracle" - that is something that not only I couldn't explain but would seem to contradict the natural laws as we understand them - of course my first reaction wouldn't be to just proclaim "MIRACLE! MIRACLE!" Why? Doing so explains nothing. Attributing it to Zeus shooting lightning bolts explains nothing.

If I encountered such a phenomenon I would try to explain it based on what I know, then I would ask others who might have expert knowledge, and if they couldn't either I would simply consider it as an open question which can't be answered because our understanding of the world around us is insufficient.


If you're going to copy-paste that much, can you at least pick some quality content that isn't chock full of logical fallacies? Logical fallacies make me sad.


The Ugly

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #451 on: June 06, 2015, 07:09:23 PM »

The Ugly

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #452 on: June 06, 2015, 07:33:33 PM »
People condemn themselves by their actions.

Or thoughts. Like doubting a staggeringly improbable claim, which simply isn't possible for many.

Created a logical skeptic, then condemned for it. Punished for His mistake, really.

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SF1900

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #454 on: June 06, 2015, 08:12:31 PM »


AVXO is far from militant. He is always very calm, cogent, and forthright when responding. Nothing militant about him.

Necrosis on the other hand.  ;D ;D
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BigRo

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #455 on: June 07, 2015, 02:02:34 AM »
"People condemn themselves by their actions.

Every single human who ever lived would be condemned if it wasn't for the fact that Jesus sacrificed His own life on our behalf.

Some people like to focus on the fact that not everyone will be saved... and then blame God for that.

But none of us deserve to be saved. We all deserve to be destroyed.

God cannot accept a human into Heaven based on their own merits.

We are all filthy with lies, deceit, idolatry, and selfishness.

Even the good things we do are done for the wrong reasons.

So He came down from Heaven and took upon Himself the punishment that we all deserve.

And I praise Him for that."

So God created us in his image but we deserve hell? If we dont accept Jesus died for our sins were going to hell? How nice of him to send his one and only son! Such horseshit man.

Jesus said the kingdom of god is within you. I suggest you stop all this nonsense and go deep within in silent prayer and let this realization manifest within you.





Necrosis

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #456 on: June 07, 2015, 05:09:15 AM »
AVXO is far from militant. He is always very calm, cogent, and forthright when responding. Nothing militant about him.

Necrosis on the other hand.  ;D ;D

 :D

I am a little intense.

Parker

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #457 on: June 07, 2015, 06:55:30 AM »
I did not: the water from lakes is irrelevant since it cannot possibly contribute to a rise of the sea level - think about it. As for glaciers: I accounted for most of the earths glaciers in my calculation. Sorry to disappoint.

The fact is not enough ice exists in the world to account for what the Biblical flood is supposed to be. The water would have to come down in the form of rain. Even if we assume a divine intervention that caused rain to condense magically - ignoring the water cycle - the amount of water needed is staggering.

As I said we'd go to 3.5 gallons per second per square foot, every day for forty days. The average amount of rainfall is 20 gallons per square foot per year. This kind of torrential downpour would leave incontrovertible evidence behind it. Yet no such evidence exists.

By the way, I wrote a quick little Python program to check the speed of a single raindrop assuming that raindrops were about the size of an average raindrop. Turns out with 3.5 gallons per second you'd be well into supersonic speeds.
Ha...You. Are. So. Intense!!! Real life Batman, even ran a quick Python program...

Interesting article on the Biblical Flood
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

But, we all are condemned!!!!

*I'm trying to add brevity to this thread, so take nothing I say as being truly serious.

Howard

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #458 on: June 07, 2015, 07:09:26 AM »
Hey SF.  :)

Just to clarify... I did not say that we are distrustful of 'science and education'

I said we are distrustful of the "scientific community" and of the education system.

There is a difference!



Hey T, I'll keep this brief ( as possible) to make the basic point.
If religious claims can't stand up to basic scientific inquiry and examination, then :
1. it's false    or    2. is a realm OUTSIDE of science and worldly measurement.

Things like the dating the age of the earth and the composition of our atmosphere is the realm of science.
These phenomenon are measured and explained with observable, verified , empirical data .
This is where creationists break down and look silly.

BUT, things like love and faith are in a different , more spiritual realm.
It's silly to try to measure how much you love someone via scientific testing.
FAITH in GOD is more like LOVE.
For us , as human beings, we really do experience LOVE, but we can't prove it by empirical data.
Love and faith  are based on what we EXPERIENCE and that's personal.

* I honestly believe YOU had a religious experience that changed you .
The old TBombz in the bunny suit is gone forever and a new man of faith was born.
For YOU, I believe this was a real experience, but you can't prove it via science.
But then again, I can't prove I  love my MOM, via science. ;).

I trust you get my point here.


BigRo

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #459 on: June 07, 2015, 07:24:38 AM »
x 2 ^^

SF1900

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #460 on: June 07, 2015, 07:35:55 AM »
Ha...You. Are. So. Intense!!! Real life Batman, even ran a quick Python program...

Interesting article on the Biblical Flood
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

But, we all are condemned!!!!

*I'm trying to add brevity to this thread, so take nothing I say as being truly serious.

Great, and I can find a plethora of articles that disprove the flood.

I am sure there "evidence" will not stand up to scientific scrutiny. For all ideas to be accepted into scientific community and meet a general consensus, it must pass the burden of peer review. Until it does, it means absolutely jack shit.
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SF1900

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #461 on: June 07, 2015, 07:40:01 AM »
Hey T, I'll keep this brief ( as possible) to make the basic point.
If religious claims can't stand up to basic scientific inquiry and examination, then :
1. it's false    or    2. is a realm OUTSIDE of science and worldly measurement.

Things like the dating the age of the earth and the composition of our atmosphere is the realm of science.
These phenomenon are measured and explained with observable, verified , empirical data .
This is where creationists break down and look silly.

BUT, things like love and faith are in a different , more spiritual realm.
It's silly to try to measure how much you love someone via scientific testing.
FAITH in GOD is more like LOVE.
For us , as human beings, we really do experience LOVE, but we can't prove it by empirical data.
Love and faith  are based on what we EXPERIENCE and that's personal.

* I honestly believe YOU had a religious experience that changed you .
The old TBombz in the bunny suit is gone forever and a new man of faith was born.
For YOU, I believe this was a real experience, but you can't prove it via science.
But then again, I can't prove I  love my MOM, via science. ;).

I trust you get my point here.



Love can sort of be measured by empirical data. Chemical reactions in the brain during a love-state is much different than someone who is not love.

Scientists have observed the brains of people after a breakup. The longing, the desire to be reconnected with the loved one, showed up in specific areas of the brain, when compared to a control group.

Arthur Aron, a social psychologist at Stony Brook University in New York, has done brain scans on people newly in love and found that after that first magical meeting or perfect first date, a complex system in the brain is activated that is essentially "the same thing that happens when a person takes cocaine."

From a more observable and anecdotal perspective, we can observe love or mutual attraction in the animal kingdom (from the lower primates up until the most highest one). We can observe cuddling, holding hands, sex (bonobos have sex for pleasure), pleasurable words directed at another, a gentle caress, etc. While all these behaviors may be indicate something else (not love), we have pretty strong evidence that many of these behaviors are indicative of love.

Thus, when you take ALL of this into consideration, I think love can be measured via science. Obviously, the above data are brief answers to a very complicated topic; however, it does provide us a brief glimpse into the nature of love and attraction, etc.

It becomes more complicated when trying to determine what attracts one person to another. Some scientists have said pheromones, others have said its based on physical attraction, and others have stated that its more about similar ideals and values (religious values, etc.). I suspect its a matter of many factors.



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avxo

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #462 on: June 07, 2015, 10:49:36 AM »
Ha...You. Are. So. Intense!!! Real life Batman, even ran a quick Python program...

Interesting article on the Biblical Flood
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

But, we all are condemned!!!!

*I'm trying to add brevity to this thread, so take nothing I say as being truly serious.

Tell me... Do you bleed? ;D

I'll take a look at the link later today and post some comments.

tbombz

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #463 on: June 07, 2015, 06:03:02 PM »
"People condemn themselves by their actions.

Every single human who ever lived would be condemned if it wasn't for the fact that Jesus sacrificed His own life on our behalf.

Some people like to focus on the fact that not everyone will be saved... and then blame God for that.

But none of us deserve to be saved. We all deserve to be destroyed.

God cannot accept a human into Heaven based on their own merits.

We are all filthy with lies, deceit, idolatry, and selfishness.

Even the good things we do are done for the wrong reasons.

So He came down from Heaven and took upon Himself the punishment that we all deserve.

And I praise Him for that."

So God created us in his image but we deserve hell? If we dont accept Jesus died for our sins were going to hell? How nice of him to send his one and only son! Such horseshit man.

Jesus said the kingdom of god is within you. I suggest you stop all this nonsense and go deep within in silent prayer and let this realization manifest within you.



God created Adam and Eve in His image.

You and me? We are far from it.

 :)

Hey T, I'll keep this brief ( as possible) to make the basic point.
If religious claims can't stand up to basic scientific inquiry and examination, then :
1. it's false    or    2. is a realm OUTSIDE of science and worldly measurement.

Things like the dating the age of the earth and the composition of our atmosphere is the realm of science.
These phenomenon are measured and explained with observable, verified , empirical data .
This is where creationists break down and look silly.

BUT, things like love and faith are in a different , more spiritual realm.
It's silly to try to measure how much you love someone via scientific testing.
FAITH in GOD is more like LOVE.
For us , as human beings, we really do experience LOVE, but we can't prove it by empirical data.
Love and faith  are based on what we EXPERIENCE and that's personal.

* I honestly believe YOU had a religious experience that changed you .
The old TBombz in the bunny suit is gone forever and a new man of faith was born.
For YOU, I believe this was a real experience, but you can't prove it via science.
But then again, I can't prove I  love my MOM, via science. ;).

I trust you get my point here.


Hello again, Howard.
If you have any "scientific" questions regarding the bible...
I would point you in the direction of www.creation.com
That website is filled with scientists with Master's and PHd's
I am sure they can answer any of your questions.
-Taylor

wes

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #464 on: June 07, 2015, 06:07:35 PM »
::)

Skeletor

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #465 on: June 07, 2015, 06:10:27 PM »

SF1900

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #466 on: June 07, 2015, 06:38:32 PM »
God created Adam and Eve in His image.

You and me? We are far from it.

 :)

Hello again, Howard.
If you have any "scientific" questions regarding the bible...
I would point you in the direction of www.creation.com
That website is filled with scientists with Master's and PHd's
I am sure they can answer any of your questions.
-Taylor

Those scientists are usually charlatans. I would not trust any scientist who writes for creation.com.  The fact that they have PhD's means absolutely nothing. All that matters is whether or not their ideas could hold up to peer-reviewed scrutiny. We already know that many theists assertions cannot stand the scrutiny of peer-review, which is why the develop their own journals, so they can publish their "ideas" there.
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wes

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #467 on: June 07, 2015, 07:31:47 PM »
Everyday I skim through this thread and I`d like to bang all of your collective heads together.

Just my musings!

tbombz

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #468 on: June 07, 2015, 08:42:33 PM »
Those scientists are usually charlatans. I would not trust any scientist who writes for creation.com.  The fact that they have PhD's means absolutely nothing. All that matters is whether or not their ideas could hold up to peer-reviewed scrutiny. We already know that many theists assertions cannot stand the scrutiny of peer-review, which is why the develop their own journals, so they can publish their "ideas" there.


The common perception of non-scientists is that reviewers of new scientific research are completely impartial, objective and independent.  But the reality is that these reviewers are often competitors in the same field, which raises a number of conflict of interest questions.  Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, admits this can be a real problem:

‘The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptability—not the validity—of
a new finding.  Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review.  We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller.  But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.’

Or as Robert Higgs put it:

‘Peer review, on which lay people place great weight, varies from important, where the editors and the referees are competent and responsible, to
a complete farce, where they are not.  As a rule, not surprisingly, the process operates somewhere in the middle, being more than a joke but less than the nearly flawless system of Olympian scrutiny that outsiders imagine it to be.  Any journal editor who desires, for whatever reason, to knock down a submission can easily do so by choosing referees he knows full well will knock it down; likewise, he can easily obtain favorable referee reports.  As I have always counseled young people whose work was rejected, seemingly on improper or insufficient grounds, the system is a crap shoot.  Personal vendettas, ideological conflicts, professional jealousies, methodological disagreements, sheer self-promotion and a great deal of plain incompetence and irresponsibility are no strangers to the scientific world; indeed, that world is rife with these all-too-human attributes.’

Cyril Belshaw, editor of Current Anthropology, notes the problem of abusive ad hominem attacks and over-sensitiveness during the review process:

‘And the most difficult question to handle editorially is the matter of ad hominem attacks seeking publication, and the even more ad hominem (verging on libelous) replies of those who feel they have been attacked ... If one thing clearly emerges from the editorial experience, it is that our
colleagues are emotional, easily hurt, and identify very strongly indeed with what passes for objective, impersonal science ... [This includes] ‘big names,’ some of whom seem extremely sensitive when their authority is questioned ...’

There are a number of reasons for this lack of objectivity—the main one being the competition for research funds and the fact that one’s peers are often the same people who control the allocation of these research funds.  As Professor Evelleen Richards from the University of New South Wales stated on ABC Radio:

‘Science ... is not so much concerned with truth as it is with consensus.  What counts as “truth”?  is what scientists can agree to count as truth at any particular moment in time ... [Scientists] are not really receptive or not really open-minded to any sorts of criticisms or any sorts of claims that
actually are attacking some of the established parts of the research (traditional) paradigm—in this case neo-Darwinism—so it is very difficult for
people who are pushing claims that contradict the paradigm to get a hearing.  They’ll find it difficult to [get] research grants; they’ll find it hard to get
their research published; they’ll, in fact, find it very hard.’


Read more...    https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j22_1/j22_1_44-49.pdf

SF1900

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #469 on: June 07, 2015, 10:48:04 PM »

The common perception of non-scientists is that reviewers of new scientific research are completely impartial, objective and independent.  But the reality is that these reviewers are often competitors in the same field, which raises a number of conflict of interest questions.  Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, admits this can be a real problem:


‘The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptability—not the validity—of
a new finding.  Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review.  We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller.  But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.’

Or as Robert Higgs put it:

‘Peer review, on which lay people place great weight, varies from important, where the editors and the referees are competent and responsible, to
a complete farce, where they are not.  As a rule, not surprisingly, the process operates somewhere in the middle, being more than a joke but less than the nearly flawless system of Olympian scrutiny that outsiders imagine it to be.  Any journal editor who desires, for whatever reason, to knock down a submission can easily do so by choosing referees he knows full well will knock it down; likewise, he can easily obtain favorable referee reports.  As I have always counseled young people whose work was rejected, seemingly on improper or insufficient grounds, the system is a crap shoot.  Personal vendettas, ideological conflicts, professional jealousies, methodological disagreements, sheer self-promotion and a great deal of plain incompetence and irresponsibility are no strangers to the scientific world; indeed, that world is rife with these all-too-human attributes.’

Cyril Belshaw, editor of Current Anthropology, notes the problem of abusive ad hominem attacks and over-sensitiveness during the review process:

‘And the most difficult question to handle editorially is the matter of ad hominem attacks seeking publication, and the even more ad hominem (verging on libelous) replies of those who feel they have been attacked ... If one thing clearly emerges from the editorial experience, it is that our
colleagues are emotional, easily hurt, and identify very strongly indeed with what passes for objective, impersonal science ... [This includes] ‘big names,’ some of whom seem extremely sensitive when their authority is questioned ...’

There are a number of reasons for this lack of objectivity—the main one being the competition for research funds and the fact that one’s peers are often the same people who control the allocation of these research funds.  As Professor Evelleen Richards from the University of New South Wales stated on ABC Radio:

‘Science ... is not so much concerned with truth as it is with consensus.  What counts as “truth”?  is what scientists can agree to count as truth at any particular moment in time ... [Scientists] are not really receptive or not really open-minded to any sorts of criticisms or any sorts of claims that
actually are attacking some of the established parts of the research (traditional) paradigm—in this case neo-Darwinism—so it is very difficult for
people who are pushing claims that contradict the paradigm to get a hearing.  They’ll find it difficult to [get] research grants; they’ll find it hard to get
their research published; they’ll, in fact, find it very hard.’


Read more...    https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j22_1/j22_1_44-49.pdf

I stopped reading after that paragraph. Conspiracy theory garbage. Creation scientists just have bad science. Plain and simple. It can't stand the scrutiny of scientific peer review, so theists have to create their own journals to get "published."
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Tapeworm

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #470 on: June 07, 2015, 10:53:15 PM »

tbombz

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #471 on: June 07, 2015, 10:58:23 PM »
I stopped reading after that paragraph. Conspiracy theory garbage. Creation scientists just have bad science. Plain and simple. It can't stand the scrutiny of scientific peer review, so theists have to create their own journals to get "published."
ok.. here is an article from a secular source (phys.org)



While peer review can prevent the publication of unimportant or poorly researched manuscripts, some scholars are concerned that it protects the status quo and suppresses innovation.

To evaluate this claim, Siler and his team studied a dataset of manuscripts submitted to Annals of Internal Medicine, British Medical Journal and The Lancet in 2003 and 2004. These journals rejected 946 of the 1,008 manuscripts in the dataset. 722 of the rejected journals never made it past the editor's desk and therefore, never even reached the peer review stage, at one or more of these three publications.

Other journals subsequently published 757 of the rejected manuscripts. The researchers looked at the number of citations these manuscripts went on to receive. They used the number of citations as a measure of quality, reasoning that when performing their own research, scientists usually choose to build on work they consider of good quality.

Siler's team found that, for the most part, editors and peer reviewers at the three elite journals did a good job of predicting the popularity of particular research papers among scientists. When the researchers assigned numerical scores to evaluations by peer reviewers, they found that, among both accepted and rejected papers, those with lower scores tended to receive fewer citations. Rejected manuscripts tended to receive fewer citations than accepted ones, and desk rejected manuscripts tended to receive fewer citations than those not rejected until the peer review stage.

However, the team discovered that some of the desk rejected manuscripts went on to receive many citations. The elite journals had rejected 14 of the most highly cited manuscripts and had desk rejected 12 of those.

The researchers acknowledge that the three journals may have rejected some of the manuscripts because they were more suited to specialist journals. Nevertheless, previous research suggests that peer review can incorporate bias, with reviewers basing decisions on the social characteristics of the authors or the intellectual content of the work. Gatekeepers tend to prefer work closer to their own and to favor the scientific status quo.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-12-peer-breakthrough-manuscripts.html#jCp

IronMeister

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #472 on: June 07, 2015, 11:17:19 PM »

Man of Steel

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #473 on: June 08, 2015, 04:03:44 AM »
Wow, I have some catching up to do on this thread LOL!

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: tbombz facebook post from today & free religious sermon by MOS!
« Reply #474 on: June 08, 2015, 04:34:22 AM »
ok.. here is an article from a secular source (phys.org)



While peer review can prevent the publication of unimportant or poorly researched manuscripts, some scholars are concerned that it protects the status quo and suppresses innovation.

To evaluate this claim, Siler and his team studied a dataset of manuscripts submitted to Annals of Internal Medicine, British Medical Journal and The Lancet in 2003 and 2004. These journals rejected 946 of the 1,008 manuscripts in the dataset. 722 of the rejected journals never made it past the editor's desk and therefore, never even reached the peer review stage, at one or more of these three publications.

Other journals subsequently published 757 of the rejected manuscripts. The researchers looked at the number of citations these manuscripts went on to receive. They used the number of citations as a measure of quality, reasoning that when performing their own research, scientists usually choose to build on work they consider of good quality.

Siler's team found that, for the most part, editors and peer reviewers at the three elite journals did a good job of predicting the popularity of particular research papers among scientists. When the researchers assigned numerical scores to evaluations by peer reviewers, they found that, among both accepted and rejected papers, those with lower scores tended to receive fewer citations. Rejected manuscripts tended to receive fewer citations than accepted ones, and desk rejected manuscripts tended to receive fewer citations than those not rejected until the peer review stage.

However, the team discovered that some of the desk rejected manuscripts went on to receive many citations. The elite journals had rejected 14 of the most highly cited manuscripts and had desk rejected 12 of those.

The researchers acknowledge that the three journals may have rejected some of the manuscripts because they were more suited to specialist journals. Nevertheless, previous research suggests that peer review can incorporate bias, with reviewers basing decisions on the social characteristics of the authors or the intellectual content of the work. Gatekeepers tend to prefer work closer to their own and to favor the scientific status quo.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-12-peer-breakthrough-manuscripts.html#jCp

you should stop taking your scientifically based HIV medicine. God will cure you!