Fat loss with steroids

[Fastback]

BMR is supposedly 3,000.
Will start calories at roughly 3,000.
Drugs of choice are test e (1mL), tren ace (4mL); 50 mg T-Bol ED & some Aromaisn e3d

 goal is to get lean, will be happy to get to 9-10% and hopefully build some lean muscle along the way.
While on steroids, should my diet change much? Would starting at BMR be a good idea while slowly decreasing calories and/or increasing physical activity?

[oni]

Treat it as if you're natural still. The drugs are incidental.
Stay at 3,000 for a week. Take pics, measurements and weights twice a week. Then at the end of the week, adjust the diet 200 Calories in either direction. If you're flat then up the carbs and decrease the fats / protein

Pretty simple really. Just need to be honest with yourself or get a friend to look at it as well

[Jizmo]

if you want to do shit fast then hit tren and starve yourself
fast and effective.

stop worrying about muscle loss when still above 7-8% bodyfat.

but most people are phaggots and dont have the willpower to starve (including myself) so just set a point of calories (as low as possible... youre on tren.) you feel comfy with and go from there.

[shrek]

Agree with both. Use both techniques. Go with less then 3000 , more like 2000-2500 no carbs for 3 days and on 3rd night refeed by eating the last few meals high carbs and high fatty protein then repeat the carb cycle

[Jizmo]

dont eat high fats while refeeding
thats counterproductive
carb cycling in general is a good idea though

[ritch]

why starve if on tren? Isn't the whole point of gear to not have to resort to such madness?

I mean can't you just wait like 3-6 weeks or normal dieting to get in shape, lol?

if say test, tren and a fat burner does not get a person lean in the time frame I suggested then I suggest not becoming such a fat ass in the first place. It does not help you in the grand scheme of being big and lean in the end.

[Jizmo]

well why diet half assed for 12 weeks if you can do it in 6

more time to gain muscle

IMO youll have better results in the long run with 6 weeks hardcore cutting and 18 weeks bulking vs 12 weeks half ass cutting and 12 weeks bulking
of course assuming youre blasting 100% of the time 

the latter of course is more comfortable. most do it that way. including myself
albeit i rather do shorter bulk/cut cycles to get the most out of rebounding, increased insulin sensitivity etc, while staying pretty lean year round
however still experimenting with what works best. some guys need year long off seasons to actually let muscle tissue accrue

[shrek]

dont eat high fats while refeeding
thats counterproductive
carb cycling in general is a good idea though

fats like avocados,  nuts , bison , sirloin steak

[ritch]

well why diet half assed for 12 weeks if you can do it in 6

more time to gain muscle

IMO youll have better results in the long run with 6 weeks hardcore cutting and 18 weeks bulking vs 12 weeks half ass cutting and 12 weeks bulking
of course assuming youre blasting 100% of the time 

the latter of course is more comfortable. most do it that way. including myself
albeit i rather do shorter bulk/cut cycles to get the most out of rebounding, increased insulin sensitivity etc, while staying pretty lean year round
however still experimenting with what works best. some guys need year long off seasons to actually let muscle tissue accrue

I guess my ultra ecto genes have me not understanding the difficulties... I swear I get lean on some guys bulking diets, lol...

But I totally agree with you on shorter bulk/cuts for the rebound phase. That is why I had brought up the whole "ABCDE" diet a few backs. Some good bits and pieces we can all apply to better ourselves I think.

[Jizmo]

fats like avocados,  nuts , bison , sirloin steak

i have to disagree here.
of course i agree on the fact that you should eat these kinds of fats on the regular.

BUT during the refeed part you should skip them...

fats have basically no metabolic benefit regarding thyroid output. you want to increase t4 to t3 conversion by refeeding and this is done via a high influx of carbs. fats are useless _during that part_ ... there are studies on that (fats vs carbs in regards to increasing thyroid output)... plus with all the insulin youre pumping out from a high carb intake you would just store the fats you eat, which is again counterproductive.

the everyday diet should of course include fish fat, avocados, nuts, eggs, coconut oil / mcts, good red meat etc.. no doubt about that  

[Fastback]

So will start at roughly 2800 calories.
Will keep protein at 235, carbs 275 and fats 85
Every 10 days or so will drop calories coming from carbs, maybe 20g every time I go lower
And will be increasing cardio when I don't wanna drop calories to low

i don't think re feeds will be neccessary from that start, so will use re feeds when carbs drop to about 150
Or so.

When should I notice the effects of tren? In terms or feeling the drug and noticing magical effects of tren? 

[shrek]

i have to disagree here.
of course i agree on the fact that you should eat these kinds of fats on the regular.

BUT during the refeed part you should skip them...

fats have basically no metabolic benefit regarding thyroid output. you want to increase t4 to t3 conversion by refeeding and this is done via a high influx of carbs. fats are useless _during that part_ ... there are studies on that (fats vs carbs in regards to increasing thyroid output)... plus with all the insulin youre pumping out from a high carb intake you would just store the fats you eat, which is again counterproductive.

the everyday diet should of course include fish fat, avocados, nuts, eggs, coconut oil / mcts, good red meat etc.. no doubt about that  

those fats will keep you looking full. Why do you think everyone behind the stage is eating massive amounts of peanut butter? Ground hamburger meat , cheese burgers and fries.

[local hero]

those fats will keep you looking full. Why do you think everyone behind the stage is eating massive amounts of peanut butter? Ground hamburger meat , cheese burgers and fries.

I've never seen anyone do this, is this common in US?

[shrek]

Well I guess that it was a NEW trick at the ronnie Coleman classic,  nothing but rice cakes smothered in peanut butter,  reeses peanut butter cups , bison meat , ground beef , white potatoes,  jasmine rice , donuts , in and out burgers, you name it.

[shrek]

My last few days out for my last meal I would eat 1lb of ground bison , 8 Oz sweet potato and avocados, if hungry later a few tbls of peanut butter , and zero carbs all day up until that meal

[Thong Maniac]

Just drop cals, doesnt matter which foods it comes from. Cals = the only thing that matters

[Mega Man]

My last few days out for my last meal I would eat 1lb of ground bison , 8 Oz sweet potato and avocados, if hungry later a few tbls of peanut butter , and zero carbs all day up until that meal

why bison...what's different about bison than other meats?

[Fastback]

why bison...what's different about bison than other meats?

Probably cause of the higher fat content

[ritch]

I've never seen anyone do this, is this common in US?

I purposely eat ground organic meat for the high cal content, eat peanut butter and jam toasts with my whole eggs for the fats. The ground meat is perfect to make burgers in. I eat burgers probably 4 times a week.

But you may get the runs at first with lots of peanut butter, also get real sick of it quick when eaten all the time. Even when consumed with jam as at one point, from all the previous meals, not everything is fully digested then you get stomach issues. So up the intake slowly.

[Jizmo]

those fats will keep you looking full. Why do you think everyone behind the stage is eating massive amounts of peanut butter? Ground hamburger meat , cheese burgers and fries.

sorry to burst your bubble man but that has nothing to do with the fats per se

it works because these foods are always loaded with sodium too.
sodium pulls water and keeps you full, not dietary fat.

this is the concept of "shit loading", right? from skip lacour or whoever advocates it...

fats do basically nothing for muscle fullness.
muscle fullness is glycogen pulling water inside the muscle. glycogen = stored carbohydrates
while there are intramuscular fat storages too theyre not significant in any way...

[Fastback]

if you want to do shit fast then hit tren and starve yourself
fast and effective.

stop worrying about muscle loss when still above 7-8% bodyfat.

but most people are phaggots and dont have the willpower to starve (including myself) so just set a point of calories (as low as possible... youre on tren.) you feel comfy with and go from there.

Jizmo, wouldn't that method completely fuck metabolism? Isn't it what happened to Kevthekid?

[Jizmo]

Jizmo, wouldn't that method completely fuck metabolism? Isn't it what happened to Kevthekid?

depends on how fat you start, your training frequency and volume, if you refeed correctly, if you use t3 and how much tren you use

tren depresses t3 levels anyway. i would personally never cut without t3.

if you start a starvation diet at 20% bodyfat and stall at 13 or 14% bodyfat then youre fucked. lol

[Fastback]

depends on how fat you start, your training frequency and volume, if you refeed correctly, if you use t3 and how much tren you use

tren depresses t3 levels anyway. i would personally never cut without t3.

if you start a starvation diet at 20% bodyfat and stall at 13 or 14% bodyfat then youre fucked. lol

I see, well I'm roughly 14% no more than 15%. My goal would be 9-10%.
I just started my tren use, 4cc a week. Claims to have 100mg per cc. But I've read the acetate ester can't carry no more than 76mg roughly, or some shit like that.. My 3rd injection is tomorrow, so haven't noticed any effect yet. Although, after the shot, I feel some PIP, something I didn't get with test E, don't know if it can be the drug??

Does tren suppress t3 dramatically? I'm not using any t3.

[mazrim]

All aas can affect thyroid levels. None significantly, though, from what I've seen.

No idea why tren gets such a bad rap for that. Hear it on forums a lot but never anything to back up those statements. If anyone has it I would genuinely be interested in seeing it.

You can use it if you want (t3) but to use it for that reason is unnecessary, imo.

Can we post links to other forums? Have a loooong article about it that was written by Karl Hoffman but don't really want to post it here due to the length of it/muddy up Fastback's thread.

[Fastback]

All aas can affect thyroid levels. None significantly, though, from what I've seen.

No idea why tren gets such a bad rap for that. Hear it on forums a lot but never anything to back up those statements. If anyone has it I would genuinely be interested in seeing it.

You can use it if you want (t3) but to use it for that reason is unnecessary, imo.

Can we post links to other forums? Have a loooong article about it that was written by Karl Hoffman but don't really want to post it here due to the length of it/muddy up Fastback's thread.

I'm all up for it!