Author Topic: Donating money to the church...  (Read 7787 times)

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2015, 08:02:00 AM »
Ok they preach the love of money is evil, yet love money?...

Is that a question or a statement?

Howard

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2015, 08:03:36 AM »
Yes, I know someone like this:  Me.  I give 10% of my gross income to my church.  Neither I nor my church are Catholic.

My church provides food, shelter, medicine, education, counseling and much more to the poor in the local community and overseas.

My church provides free, professional counseling training to volunteer church members who in turn provide free counseling to people in the community.  This includes financial counseling, marital and premarital counseling, counseling for depression, counseling for addictions, and much more.

My church provides food, shelter, medicine and other basic supplies to people who have been through a catastrophe such as flooding, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc., locally and overseas.

There is much much more, but I'm trying to keep this short.  My church is not the only one doing all these things for the community.  There are thousands of churches around the world doing the same.  

Churches couldn't possibly afford to do any of these things if it wasn't for "people like this" doing the "dumbest shit" you ever heard of, donating money...and time to their church.  If people stop doing this, then the churches will have to stop providing all of these services to the community.  Who then will provide all of these services?

Providing financial support for any organization you feel is worthwhile, makes sense.
The Church can't do charitable works without resources.

They only thing that bugs me is how some religious groups try to use " GOD's requirement" as the main reason you need to give 10%. How about just giving what you can, because it's good to help people.

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2015, 08:05:01 AM »
Faith does breed charity

We atheists have to accept that most believers are better human beings

Roy Hattersley
The Guardian, Sunday 11 September 2005

Hurricane Katrina did not stay on the front pages for long. Yesterday's Red Cross appeal for an extra 40,000 volunteer workers was virtually ignored.

The disaster will return to the headlines when one sort of newspaper reports a particularly gruesome discovery or another finds additional evidence of President Bush's negligence. But month after month of unremitting suffering is not news. Nor is the monotonous performance of the unpleasant tasks that relieve the pain and anguish of the old, the sick and the homeless - the tasks in which the Salvation Army specialise.

The Salvation Army has been given a special status as provider-in-chief of American disaster relief. But its work is being augmented by all sorts of other groups. Almost all of them have a religious origin and character.

Notable by their absence are teams from rationalist societies, free thinkers' clubs and atheists' associations - the sort of people who not only scoff at religion's intellectual absurdity but also regard it as a positive force for evil.

The arguments against religion are well known and persuasive. Faith schools, as they are now called, have left sectarian scars on Northern Ireland. Stem-cell research is forbidden because an imaginary God - who is not enough of a philosopher to realise that the ingenuity of a scientist is just as natural as the instinct of Rousseau's noble savage - condemns what he does not understand and the churches that follow his teaching forbid their members to pursue cures for lethal diseases.

Yet men and women who believe that the Pope is the devil incarnate, or (conversely) regard his ex cathedra pronouncements as holy writ, are the people most likely to take the risks and make the sacrifices involved in helping others. Last week a middle-ranking officer of the Salvation Army, who gave up a well-paid job to devote his life to the poor, attempted to convince me that homosexuality is a mortal sin.

Late at night, on the streets of one of our great cities, that man offers friendship as well as help to the most degraded and (to those of a censorious turn of mind) degenerate human beings who exist just outside the boundaries of our society. And he does what he believes to be his Christian duty without the slightest suggestion of disapproval. Yet, for much of his time, he is meeting needs that result from conduct he regards as intrinsically wicked.

Civilised people do not believe that drug addiction and male prostitution offend against divine ordinance. But those who do are the men and women most willing to change the fetid bandages, replace the sodden sleeping bags and - probably most difficult of all - argue, without a trace of impatience, that the time has come for some serious medical treatment. Good works, John Wesley insisted, are no guarantee of a place in heaven. But they are most likely to be performed by people who believe that heaven exists.

The correlation is so clear that it is impossible to doubt that faith and charity go hand in hand. The close relationship may have something to do with the belief that we are all God's children, or it may be the result of a primitive conviction that, although helping others is no guarantee of salvation, it is prudent to be recorded in a book of gold, like James Leigh Hunt's Abu Ben Adam, as "one who loves his fellow men". Whatever the reason, believers answer the call, and not just the Salvation Army. When I was a local councillor, the Little Sisters of the Poor - right at the other end of the theological spectrum - did the weekly washing for women in back-to-back houses who were too ill to scrub for themselves.

It ought to be possible to live a Christian life without being a Christian or, better still, to take Christianity à la carte. The Bible is so full of contradictions that we can accept or reject its moral advice according to taste. Yet men and women who, like me, cannot accept the mysteries and the miracles do not go out with the Salvation Army at night.

The only possible conclusion is that faith comes with a packet of moral imperatives that, while they do not condition the attitude of all believers, influence enough of them to make them morally superior to atheists like me. The truth may make us free. But it has not made us as admirable as the average captain in the Salvation Army.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/12/religion.uk/print

Tapeworm

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2015, 08:05:21 AM »
If someone was dying imminently and couldn't be saved would I have to wait until he expired to let a starving dog eat him?  If the dog is healthy, it just needs a good meal.  Wouldn't it be less moral to risk the dog's death by waiting around for the guy to slip away?

What about 2 dogs?  4 dogs, a siamese cat, and a donkey that protects a whole herd of goats, everyone's suffering and the dying guy never hurt anyone but he once took the entire $200 cash out of a faux-leather wallet he found on the ground outside a brothel before presenting the empty billfold to a fat beat cop.

Man of Steel

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2015, 08:05:23 AM »
Haha mate, just like that last wall of text response you posted last time, it didn't contain any coherent arguments against what i was saying. It was just you writing a lot of long winded babble which basically went against what the bible claimed anyway! So there really is no arguing with that. Like when i asked about your god and his indifference to the injustices around the world, you just made up paragraphs of stuff claiming things like "he's infinite, he hates pain, he transcends the universe etc etc"   All of this is therefore in complete contrast to the god in your bible and doesn't answer anything. There is no debating with people like you, and i don't mean that to just come across as a prick, but you're too brainwashed to face reality.

Yes, I'm fully versed in the generic "your replies were incoherent....awaiting a cogent response" crutch.  Nothing I would say would make a difference...I read the situation accurately.  

Good thing I didn't send you a second novel.  Have a good day.

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2015, 08:09:06 AM »
Providing financial support for any organization you feel is worthwhile, makes sense.
The Church can't do charitable works without resources.

They only thing that bugs me is how some religious groups try to use " GOD's requirement" as the main reason you need to give 10%. How about just giving what you can, because it's good to help people.

Yes, that bugs me too.  Think about it:  Someone who has no continence and is a good con artist can make tons of money targeting well meaning, religious people.  Some secular charities do this too.

Man of Steel

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2015, 08:12:34 AM »
Providing financial support for any organization you feel is worthwhile, makes sense.
The Church can't do charitable works without resources.

They only thing that bugs me is how some religious groups try to use " GOD's requirement" as the main reason you need to give 10%. How about just giving what you can, because it's good to help people.

There is no specific requirement for tithing...no set amount.  That was a law for the nation of Israel in the old covenant situation.  Some believers disagree with this....that's ok.  Most churches tend to continue the specific notion of 10% tithing.  Most of the OT Israelites gave way more than 10% when you break down the law.....more like 30% to 40%.  There is no standard amount one must put forth today, but still giving 10% is perfectly fine.  Sometimes I give more, sometimes I give less, but I always want to give joyously!  I try and tithe as much as I'm able to or that God impresses upon my heart.  Today we're to give lovingly and generously because we desire to do so.  I enjoy giving and it brings me great pleasure, but my only audience in doing so is God.  Again, believers share varying opinions....that's ok.

Tapeworm

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2015, 08:13:21 AM »
Nevermind.  The situation is resolved.

Howard

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2015, 08:27:35 AM »
There is no specific requirement for tithing...no set amount.  That was a law for the nation of Israel in the old covenant situation.  Some believers disagree with this....that's ok.  Most churches tend to continue the specific notion of 10% tithing.  Most of the OT Israelites gave way more than 10% when you break down the law.....more like 30% to 40%.  There is no standard amount one must put forth today, but still giving 10% is perfectly fine.  Sometimes I give more, sometimes I give less, but I always want to give joyously!  I try and tithe as much as I'm able to or that God impresses upon my heart.  Today we're to give lovingly and generously because we desire to do so.  I enjoy giving and it brings me great pleasure, but my only audience in doing so is God.  Again, believers share varying opinions....that's ok.

Good post and reasonable answer.

Knooger

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2015, 08:30:24 AM »
Faith does breed charity

We atheists have to accept that most believers are better human beings


Hurricane Katrina did not stay on the front pages for long. Yesterday's Red Cross appeal for an extra 40,000 volunteer workers was virtually ignored.

The Red Cross does not turn away Christian volunteers. Where were they?

tommywishbone

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2015, 08:31:01 AM »
Hail satan!
a

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2015, 08:50:32 AM »
The Red Cross does not turn away Christian volunteers. Where were they?

They were volunteering, not necessarily with the Red Cross.  The article answered your question.  Your point?

Knooger

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2015, 08:51:36 AM »
Volunteering, not necessarily with the Red Cross.  The article answered your question.  Your point?

Atheists volunteer as well. Your point?

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2015, 08:52:22 AM »
Atheists volunteer as well. Your point?

Who said they didn't?

Tapeworm

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2015, 08:54:59 AM »
"Happy men don't volunteer."

Automation

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2015, 08:59:02 AM »
Double hail satan!

loco

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2015, 09:03:31 AM »

SF1900

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2015, 09:20:22 AM »
Double hail satan!

To address the whole "objective standard or morality" is stupid. It has been debated time and time again, yet theists still hold onto this narrative. Oh, well.

The standard of morality lol

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OlympiaGym

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2015, 09:23:45 AM »
All of u religion haters who are us taxpayers will be happy to hear I tithe 10 percent of my income which consists solely of VA disability & SSD to my local parish & a church order whose work I support

SF1900

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2015, 09:48:05 AM »
All of u religion haters who are us taxpayers will be happy to hear I tithe 10 percent of my income which consists solely of VA disability & SSD to my local parish & a church order whose work I support

Great, no one really cares, but thanks for sharing lol
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wes

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2015, 09:50:13 AM »
If I had a ton of coin,I`d much rather give to animal shelters, and to help the homeless,rather than to buy some child molester priest a new Caddilac.

Automation

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2015, 09:52:25 AM »
All of u religion haters who are us taxpayers will be happy to hear I tithe 10 percent of my income which consists solely of VA disability & SSD to my local parish & a church order whose work I support

Total waste of money, propping up defunct paedophilic institutions, which continue to attempt to brainwash people with nonsense.

Treble hail Satan!

wes

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2015, 09:52:41 AM »
All of u religion haters who are us taxpayers will be happy to hear I tithe 10 percent of my income which consists solely of VA disability & SSD to my local parish & a church order whose work I support
Dumbass!  ;D

SF1900

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2015, 10:08:00 AM »
If I had a ton of coin,I`d much rather give to animal shelters, and to help the homeless,rather than to buy some child molester priest a new Caddilac.

You have to love all these so-called "holy" people driving around in their mercedes, while preaching love to the poor, as they fill their greedy pockets lol. Doesn't the pope have a cup that is made out of gold? What a douche.  :D
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wes

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Re: Donating money to the church...
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2015, 10:09:44 AM »
You have to love all these so-called "holy" people driving around in their mercedes, while preaching love to the poor, as they fill their greedy pockets lol. Doesn't the pope have a cup that is made out of gold? What a douche.  :D
Your preaching to the choir my friend!   ;)