Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1773747 times)

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10025 on: December 30, 2023, 12:43:58 PM »
If ETF approval is April I wouldn’t be surprised to see it run up to its peak. Would wreck everybody.

Plus I’m not big on DXY going down for 1-2yrs, i believe the down timeframes are very small windows and that’s when we would see crypto peaks.

US Banning personal custody is coming for BTC and all other coins. The eUSD is coming in 2024 so stables will get killed and we know a Tether collapse will slaughter everyone in yields.

It’s an unfortunate scenario where for BTC to move ahead it likely means nuking itself.

I use Metamask wallet to Uniswap or oneinch on ETH network.

Honestly crypto is a fucking mess. People can dream up all sorts of wild numbers but after 4yrs it still costs USD20 to send $1. It’s all dead in the water, you’ll see ETH obliterated once the wallets are banned.

Gib will be right about  BTC but he might have to wear a draw down to 6k at some point so it’ll be a bitter sweet victory. Spend a decade arguing over a crypto only to see it worth less than your buy price and you might wait a decade just to get above water again.

Remember my comparison for gold and Silver HoDLeRs. I played in metals back in 2011. I got out at USD43 silver and it’s at USD24 a decade later……. Bitcoin maxis will learn the true meaning of HoDLe just like metal bugs have known for decades.

Mayday your price predictions are far more entertaining than any of the subsequent bull runs I've been involved in. The sustained sub 6k for 10 years is a cake taker.

Btc is a different asset to anything we've seen before. It's supply is fixed. Golds supply doubles every 30years, stocks get diluted, RE expands, $$$ are printed.
A btc Maxi imo opinion are those of us with majority NW in btc and there's probably  less than 10-20k btc maxi that exist. Btc maxi already no the true meaning of hodl, multiple draw downs of 80+% so a stagnate prices would be child's play if it eventuated. Btc maxi problem is that they think majority of the world will adopt their mindset tomorrow, when in actual fact the majority of the world are retarded and don't care. This is where the BS projections of btc to 10million by 2025 come from.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10026 on: December 30, 2023, 07:34:04 PM »
Mayday your price predictions are far more entertaining than any of the subsequent bull runs I've been involved in. The sustained sub 6k for 10 years is a cake taker.

Btc is a different asset to anything we've seen before. It's supply is fixed. Golds supply doubles every 30years, stocks get diluted, RE expands, $$$ are printed.
A btc Maxi imo opinion are those of us with majority NW in btc and there's probably  less than 10-20k btc maxi that exist. Btc maxi already no the true meaning of hodl, multiple draw downs of 80+% so a stagnate prices would be child's play if it eventuated. Btc maxi problem is that they think majority of the world will adopt their mindset tomorrow, when in actual fact the majority of the world are retarded and don't care. This is where the BS projections of btc to 10million by 2025 come from.

Well I do like to bear talk lol 😂 keep in mind I was bullish at 17.5k when I bought but everyone else on here was waiting for 12k or lower.

Im suggesting the future peaks/lows could become lower. It could look something like this:
2024-25 76k peak
2026-27 12k low
2028-29 64k peak
2030-31 6k low
2032-2040 continual upward run to 240k

If BTC is digital gold then it will behave like gold. Don’t get caught up in the supply argument, the mining rate is adjusted down and it is always divisible to more decimal points to purchase. On chain was BS aswell. Metal players know how to HoDL as it’s extremely long waves down and up:

Gold spent 20yrs going down from 1980 to 2000
Gold spent 10yrs going up from 2000 to 2010
Gold spent 5yrs going down from 2011 to 2015
Gold spent 4yrs going up from 2016 to 2020
Gold has almost gone sideways from 2020-2023 —> it’s up 3.7% over the largest money printing/inflationary period in 40yrs.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10027 on: January 01, 2024, 08:15:05 PM »
If ETF approval is April I wouldn’t be surprised to see it run up to its peak. Would wreck everybody.

Plus I’m not big on DXY going down for 1-2yrs, i believe the down timeframes are very small windows and that’s when we would see crypto peaks.

US Banning personal custody is coming for BTC and all other coins. The eUSD is coming in 2024 so stables will get killed and we know a Tether collapse will slaughter everyone in yields.

It’s an unfortunate scenario where for BTC to move ahead it likely means nuking itself.

I use Metamask wallet to Uniswap or oneinch on ETH network.

Honestly crypto is a fucking mess. People can dream up all sorts of wild numbers but after 4yrs it still costs USD20 to send $1. It’s all dead in the water, you’ll see ETH obliterated once the wallets are banned.

Gib will be right about  BTC but he might have to wear a draw down to 6k at some point so it’ll be a bitter sweet victory. Spend a decade arguing over a crypto only to see it worth less than your buy price and you might wait a decade just to get above water again.

Remember my comparison for gold and Silver HoDLeRs. I played in metals back in 2011. I got out at USD43 silver and it’s at USD24 a decade later……. Bitcoin maxis will learn the true meaning of HoDLe just like metal bugs have known for decades.
Does this help? Something is wrong if you have to pay $20. Uniswap and Metamask support ETH L2s.


Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10028 on: January 01, 2024, 09:08:56 PM »
Does this help? Something is wrong if you have to pay $20. Uniswap and Metamask support ETH L2s.


Speculative utility ALTS tend to avoid L2s and only launch on  Ethereum. The idea is that early investors are more likely to hodl than trade in and out of positions because of high gas fees. More hodlers help a project look more legitimate

I'll give you an example. I've mentioned eigenlayer restaking and the potential value that could bring to ETH. They haven't launched a token yet, but it's a legit project which is well funded and will have a huge token launch soon. The token will probably be available on big exchanges from day 1.

I will probably get involved with the eigenlayer  token, but I also want to take on more risk and speculate on the network so found a utility ALT called RSTK. It will be one of the first protocols to launch on eigenlayer. It's utility is that it gives an extra 10% yield on the restaking. It's only available on Ethereum for the reasons mentioned earlier. Now I don't know for sure if this is a legit project or a rug, but I do know it has more buyers than sellers. It could rug to zero or it could x50 if it eventually gets listed on major exchanges. Until then it will only be found on Ethereum and be pricey to trade.

https://coinmarketcap.com/dexscan/ethereum/0x8c894d91748a42fc68f681090db06720779a7347/

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10029 on: January 01, 2024, 09:16:45 PM »
Well I do like to bear talk lol 😂 keep in mind I was bullish at 17.5k when I bought but everyone else on here was waiting for 12k or lower.

Im suggesting the future peaks/lows could become lower. It could look something like this:
2024-25 76k peak
2026-27 12k low
2028-29 64k peak
2030-31 6k low
2032-2040 continual upward run to 240k

If BTC is digital gold then it will behave like gold. Don’t get caught up in the supply argument, the mining rate is adjusted down and it is always divisible to more decimal points to purchase. On chain was BS aswell. Metal players know how to HoDL as it’s extremely long waves down and up:

Gold spent 20yrs going down from 1980 to 2000
Gold spent 10yrs going up from 2000 to 2010
Gold spent 5yrs going down from 2011 to 2015
Gold spent 4yrs going up from 2016 to 2020
Gold has almost gone sideways from 2020-2023 —> it’s up 3.7% over the largest money printing/inflationary period in 40yrs.
Gold and Silver are excellent conductors of electricity. Both are used in electronics and electrical devices. The price of Gold was also suppressed by the US government to promote the USD as the world's reserve currency. A sky-high gold price would undermine the US dollar and also affect the cost of electronics and other devices.

The death of the dollar could very well be because it was politicized with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Nations now are concerned about opting into a currency that could be used against them depending on the way the wind blows - lol! So in the long run it may not be possible for the bankrupt US to suppress Gold or cryptocurrencies. They can try and ban ownership, sure. But I see the US political system as totally corrupt and beyond saving. It's rotting from within, and its influence is waning. But we'll see what happens in the next few years...

https://www.numismaticnews.net/coin-market/is-golds-price-manipulated

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10030 on: January 01, 2024, 09:35:12 PM »
BTC will soon make a an attempt at the 45K mark. We are still in spring season, but gradually more and more weak hands will be shaken out, leaving hard core hodlers who will hold to 100K+, and that's when demand will really squeeze price up fast.

Such a beautiful thing... :)

When?

When will we break 45k? Likely today.

(Or were you asking when we will hit 100k???)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10031 on: January 01, 2024, 10:16:55 PM »

I've mentioned eigenlayer restaking and the potential value that could bring to ETH. They haven't launched a token yet, but it's a legit project which is well funded and will have a huge token launch soon. The token will probably be available on big exchanges from day 1.

I will probably get involved with the eigenlayer  token, but I also want to take on more risk and speculate on the network so found a utility ALT called RSTK.

https://coinmarketcap.com/dexscan/ethereum/0x8c894d91748a42fc68f681090db06720779a7347/

Yes, the concept has promise for sure.

For those interested in legit "alts" I would strongly suggest you look at FILECOIN (FIL). I won't put the full explanation, but for anyone who takes just a little time to read the link below, it will be very obvious how much massive potential FIL has.

Basically, Filecoin is on its way to revolutionizing how we store data. It is already making money, growing in revenues and adoption, improving usability, and building out various new functionality which will make it essential to so many areas of crypto beyond just data storage.

Even better, FIL comes at a post-ICO boom / bust price, and is well listed on all major crypto exchanges. So not just one of the few legit projects with true upside, but also at a price that actually represents legitimate value.

https://filecointldr.io/

i=SAW_Hy87FzjMG2ZV


Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10032 on: January 02, 2024, 01:06:45 AM »
Yes, the concept has promise for sure.

For those interested in legit "alts" I would strongly suggest you look at FILECOIN (FIL). I won't put the full explanation, but for anyone who takes just a little time to read the link below, it will be very obvious how much massive potential FIL has.

Basically, Filecoin is on its way to revolutionizing how we store data. It is already making money, growing in revenues and adoption, improving usability, and building out various new functionality which will make it essential to so many areas of crypto beyond just data storage.

Even better, FIL comes at a post-ICO boom / bust price, and is well listed on all major crypto exchanges. So not just one of the few legit projects with true upside, but also at a price that actually represents legitimate value.

https://filecointldr.io/

i=SAW_Hy87FzjMG2ZV



shitcoiner!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10033 on: January 02, 2024, 03:33:55 AM »
shitcoiner!

Ha ha - and lol but No, I am definitely not a shitcoiner.

Filecoin is definitely not a shitcoin, and also is no way an "alt" to the function of BTC. (If you are unsure what FIL does, take a look at filecoin.io or https://filecointldr.io/.

Filecoin will have a profound effect on the way we store data. Theoretically, its network capacity and usage should surpass Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Apple in terms of data storage capacity. Solana is one of many examples of blockchains which storea data on the FIL network.

I predict we will hear a lot more about this very important utility protocol in the years to come (and I look forward to quoting myself in 2028 etc when the price of FIL will make its current price look like an absolute bargain). The opportunity is out there for those who do just a little research. This is a possible 50x'er over the next decade if they execute as planned.

Is FIL an unregistered security? Quite possibly yes, but it is such an important innovation that it really cannot be stopped (although trading of the FIL tokens on US exchanges potentially could be). But its certainly NOT a shitcoin.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10034 on: January 03, 2024, 09:41:36 AM »
Anyone manage to pick up some Sats in that nice little flash crash we just had? (I nibbled away at BTC, SOL, and FIL).

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10035 on: January 03, 2024, 03:06:31 PM »
Does this help? Something is wrong if you have to pay $20. Uniswap and Metamask support ETH L2s.


Cheers for the clip, i'll have to watch it through but with exchanges i am still paying huge money for a transfer.

I participated in an ICO last night and getting my ETH off an exchange to my wallet was about USD20 and by the time the ICO opened i paid USD35 just to transfer my ETH over lol. Talk about an unusable POS.


Gold and Silver are excellent conductors of electricity. Both are used in electronics and electrical devices. The price of Gold was also suppressed by the US government to promote the USD as the world's reserve currency. A sky-high gold price would undermine the US dollar and also affect the cost of electronics and other devices.

The death of the dollar could very well be because it was politicized with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Nations now are concerned about opting into a currency that could be used against them depending on the way the wind blows - lol! So in the long run it may not be possible for the bankrupt US to suppress Gold or cryptocurrencies. They can try and ban ownership, sure. But I see the US political system as totally corrupt and beyond saving. It's rotting from within, and its influence is waning. But we'll see what happens in the next few years...

https://www.numismaticnews.net/coin-market/is-golds-price-manipulated

The USD is the global standard by a long mile. It won't change. The most aggressive inflationary event in 40yrs has done what? Made it stronger (DXY). The countries leaving are because their own currency is failing, sure go and trade among other failing currency nations and see how that works.......

Self ownership will be banned, that is a certainty unfortunately as the US has it as a key objective.

FWIW this is how an Autist brain sees the chart. If we do peak in Q4 2024 then next peak timing I will look for is out towards 2036. Better pray I am horrifically wrong 🙏




gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10036 on: January 04, 2024, 03:35:39 AM »
Cheers for the clip, i'll have to watch it through but with exchanges i am still paying huge money for a transfer.

The USD is the global standard by a long mile. It won't change. The most aggressive inflationary event in 40yrs has done what? Made it stronger.

Self ownership will be banned, that is a certainty unfortunately as the US has it as a key objective.

FWIW this is how an Autist brain sees the chart. If we do peak in Q4 2024 then next peak timing I will look for is out towards 2036. Better pray I am horrifically wrong 🙏

Lets be clear though, the USD weakens every day in terms of purchasing power. It's just that it is one of the more the least bad currencies in terms of decline of value when compared to others. But ALL fiat currencies are weakening in purchasing power over time, which is why BTC over time will continue to increase in value against the USD (let alone all other global fiat currencies).

You can't in practice, realistically enforce a ban on self-ownership of an intangible asset which is a bearer instrument, as you can't in practice, realistically ban freedom of thought. If we ever get to such a point in any country, most people would leave it if possible, unless they get physically trapped by force (North Korea as an example).

In terms of graphs, take a look at this on @Mayday.

https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/
 

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10037 on: January 04, 2024, 04:03:45 AM »
Lets be clear though, the USD weakens every day in terms of purchasing power. It's just that it is one of the more the least bad currencies in terms of decline of value when compared to others. But ALL fiat currencies are weakening in purchasing power over time, which is why BTC over time will continue to increase in value against the USD (let alone all other global fiat currencies).

You can't in practice, realistically enforce a ban on self-ownership of an intangible asset which is a bearer instrument, as you can't in practice, realistically ban freedom of thought. If we ever get to such a point in any country, most people would leave it if possible, unless they get physically trapped by force (North Korea as an example).

In terms of graphs, take a look at this on @Mayday.

https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/

Inflation is growth. That’s how it all works and why purchasing power shifts.

You ban self custody by blocking on/off ramps. It’s easy to do. BTC will be fine, I don’t have a problem with that one, it’s ETH which is loaded with risk from self custody alts.

The rainbow chart is a joke. Last round it fucked up, missed the top and overshot the bottom. So they left the top to show BS peaks and added a lower line to make out that it still works lol. PlanB model was a bucket of shit aswell. Dickhead even blocked me 😂

The true curve is how I have drawn it. You don’t make imaginary peaks when it misses. From the last run it fell out of its curve. both peak and lows were well out of the projection so when you adjust for that you get a softening over a time period.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10038 on: January 04, 2024, 07:02:24 AM »
Inflation is growth. That’s how it all works and why purchasing power shifts.

You ban self custody by blocking on/off ramps. It’s easy to do. BTC will be fine, I don’t have a problem with that one, it’s ETH which is loaded with risk from self custody alts.

The rainbow chart is a joke. Last round it fucked up, missed the top and overshot the bottom. So they left the top to show BS peaks and added a lower line to make out that it still works lol. PlanB model was a bucket of shit aswell. Dickhead even blocked me 😂

The true curve is how I have drawn it. You don’t make imaginary peaks when it misses. From the last run it fell out of its curve. both peak and lows were well out of the projection so when you adjust for that you get a softening over a time period.

You are confusing productivity with inflation. Basically, as we become more productive, things should be getting CHEAPER, not more expensive. Indeed they are cheaper, but only in real terms, not nominal terms. This is because the productivity gains are offset by money-printing and currency devaluations. The fact that a house is 100x more expensive than it was 100 years ago, is not because the house is actually "worth more". It is because, there is 100x more cash in supply. If priced in BTC, houses, as an example, would be getting cheaper (due to improvements in manufacturing technology), not more expense (population and land supply issues aside). If supply of money was entirely fixed, prices of everything would actually be falling in nominal terms, as that same amount of money would need to be spread across a bigger total pie, this being ever increasingly thinly spread. Basic mathematics. Thus, you can see, productivity is actually DEFLATIONARY, and it is the money printing which is inflationary.

If inflation was equated to growth, then countries like Nigeria, Turkey, Venezuela, and Argentina would be growing fast. Any country can produce inflation by money printing. But such inflation does not equate to growth, nor does real growth lead to inflation (which is just currency devaluation caused by money printing). It is all dependent on the amount of currency in circulation. Believing that inflation equates with or is caused by growth is like people who believe in perpetual motion machine - if only it were that easy...just print more money... :)

Here is a great video which explains it:

i=mUyjRfLmFMy999bn

As for blocking on/off ramps, humans have throughout history found ways to protect value from theft and oppression, and to preserve and transfer value outside of the system. Even in highly restricted environments, such as prisons, or North Korea or China, people find innovative ways to do this.

Many ways exist to acquire BTC with no on-ramp. You can provide services for BTC, you can sell goods for BTC, and vice versa. You can trade peer to peer, not needing any intermediary. Over time, economic value always flows to where it is safest, no matter how hard you try to block it. This is what every single country has discovered, which is why not one "ban" on Bitcoin has ever succeeded. Indeed, in many countries, many adopters of BTC don't even have bank accounts (if this is what you mean by on/off ramps), yet BTC is thriving in demand, use and adoption.

Rainbow chart makes use of both logarithmic scale, overlaid with 4 year cycles. I think its a useful reference to consider, but I agree the past of course does not necessarily predict the future. And even if mathematically correct, you may not get perfect fit, due to a multitude of impactful global events, just like a flower which might in theory grow perfectly in a controlled environment, but in the "real world" will get blemishes due to weather patterns, insects, etc, and just like every season spring, summer, autumn, winter is not perfectly identical year to year. But the overall DNA of the growth and general weather pattern is there. Plan B's most famous chart plots stock to flow. Also interesting, but again obviously not a watertight match, and of course influenced by other variables. At the end of the day, these charts are tools, which you can use and incorporate into your own alculations, rather then perfect predictors.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10039 on: January 04, 2024, 05:42:09 PM »
You are confusing productivity with inflation. Basically, as we become more productive, things should be getting CHEAPER, not more expensive. Indeed they are cheaper, but only in real terms, not nominal terms. This is because the productivity gains are offset by money-printing and currency devaluations. The fact that a house is 100x more expensive than it was 100 years ago, is not because the house is actually "worth more". It is because, there is 100x more cash in supply. If priced in BTC, houses, as an example, would be getting cheaper (due to improvements in manufacturing technology), not more expense (population and land supply issues aside). If supply of money was entirely fixed, prices of everything would actually be falling in nominal terms, as that same amount of money would need to be spread across a bigger total pie, this being ever increasingly thinly spread. Basic mathematics. Thus, you can see, productivity is actually DEFLATIONARY, and it is the money printing which is inflationary.

If inflation was equated to growth, then countries like Nigeria, Turkey, Venezuela, and Argentina would be growing fast. Any country can produce inflation by money printing. But such inflation does not equate to growth, nor does real growth lead to inflation (which is just currency devaluation caused by money printing). It is all dependent on the amount of currency in circulation. Believing that inflation equates with or is caused by growth is like people who believe in perpetual motion machine - if only it were that easy...just print more money... :)

Here is a great video which explains it:

i=mUyjRfLmFMy999bn

As for blocking on/off ramps, humans have throughout history found ways to protect value from theft and oppression, and to preserve and transfer value outside of the system. Even in highly restricted environments, such as prisons, or North Korea or China, people find innovative ways to do this.

Many ways exist to acquire BTC with no on-ramp. You can provide services for BTC, you can sell goods for BTC, and vice versa. You can trade peer to peer, not needing any intermediary. Over time, economic value always flows to where it is safest, no matter how hard you try to block it. This is what every single country has discovered, which is why not one "ban" on Bitcoin has ever succeeded. Indeed, in many countries, many adopters of BTC don't even have bank accounts (if this is what you mean by on/off ramps), yet BTC is thriving in demand, use and adoption.

Rainbow chart makes use of both logarithmic scale, overlaid with 4 year cycles. I think its a useful reference to consider, but I agree the past of course does not necessarily predict the future. And even if mathematically correct, you may not get perfect fit, due to a multitude of impactful global events, just like a flower which might in theory grow perfectly in a controlled environment, but in the "real world" will get blemishes due to weather patterns, insects, etc, and just like every season spring, summer, autumn, winter is not perfectly identical year to year. But the overall DNA of the growth and general weather pattern is there. Plan B's most famous chart plots stock to flow. Also interesting, but again obviously not a watertight match, and of course influenced by other variables. At the end of the day, these charts are tools, which you can use and incorporate into your own alculations, rather then perfect predictors.

No dude. The Measurement of growth is based on dollar value regardless of what caused it.

Both currency debasement (volume decreases) and productivity (volume increases) are measured in dollar terms and both provide value growth. Or are you suggesting you would sell your property for -45% because the growth is not real….. you can’t pick and choose which is why the arguments against inflation always fall over.

Argentina economy vs US is a retarded comparison. 99% inflation vs 2.5%. Argentina didn’t follow the rules and blew up their capital base, the US followed the rules. US GDP is positive from the inflation = no recession, and we have full employment. You don’t adjust for purchasing power in GDP.

The largest/fastest property gains come during the money printing inflationary cycles. The largest productivity gains/share market gains come AFTER the printing cycle ends. Both cycles need each other  in order to do their job.

If you have a fixed money supply you fail. I’ve used my Monopoly example time and again. If the true value is the money itself, there is no desire to invest because you only dilute your wealth. That’s a topic itself to explain the pitfalls of this method.

The question you and others should ask yourself is ‘what is money?’ because if you don’t understand that, you don’t understand why the current system behaves like it does.


 You and I would surely agree that if the space was cleaned up self custody would be a non-issue because we’d be safe to hold in banks. You just won’t like what regulation does to the price as it’s being cleaned up.

The rainbow chart is a scam. Stock to flow was a scam and I am blocked by PlanB lol 😂 he drew up multiple models and got people wrecked. He Was outed as someone who was not of the background he claimed. He was calling for 500k and we got 14% of the way there and you refer to it as not watertight? My friend, he is a scammer. Rainbow was so wrong they added a new line to the bottom to make out like it was right while showing the peak was missed entirely.
















gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10040 on: January 05, 2024, 03:23:13 AM »
@Mayday - bro, you are a smart guy, but you are confusing concepts (and you are not the first do to so).

I'll and explain it simply by using a very simple imaginary hypothetical to explain the concept. Please read below carefully, (and be sure to watch the Jeff Booth video I posted above).

Lets say we have 100 identical people, living in a country, who all annually produce 1 apple each. And lets say the total amount of money in supply is $100, and they only thing they spend money on is apples. The cost of each apple would be 1$ (being 100 apples divided by a total of $100 in circulation).

Now, imagine that the supply of money is fixed. Does that mean that people would all be content just with one apple? No, of course not. They would still be incentivized to be productive, and to get more apples from others, or to grow more. The human desire to be efficient, productive, and maximize returns does not diminish just because the supply of money is fixed.

So, now imagine a scenario where with fixed money supply, everyone has become more productive. Imagine that due to better farming, more hard work, or just the luck of better weather, that they now produce 10 apples each. What happens to the cost of apples as a result of this increased productivity? Prices of apples fall! That's right  - each apple, now only costs 10 cents. Increased productivity resulted in DEFLATION.

Similarly, lets now take a scenario where they are just still producing 1 apple (ie no increase in productivity), but the Government increases money supply by 10x. So now we have $1000 in supply, but the same number of apples being produced. Now each apple will cost $10. Now we have INFLATION in the price, yet there has been zero improvement in productivity.

Its really a very basic concept.

You do not need money printing to produce economic growth. Try playing monopoly without money being added into the system. You will see the same incentives still apply. Property owners still want to maximize their profits, and the best allocators of capital over time will still thrive over others. All money is, is a ledger. The problem with fiat currencies of course, is that they are all corrupt ledgers (some more corrupt than others), whereas Bitcoin is not. And this is why Bitcoin, over time, succeeds against all fiat currencies. All fiat currencies devalue over time (resulting in inflation, as the same amount of currency purchases less over time), and just because some devalue more than others, it does not mean that the slowest devaluing currency is actually gaining in real terms. Just like if you had 10 horses all running backwards, it does not mean that the least worst running horse is actually running forwards (although in relative terms, compared to the other horses, it may be appearing to do so - which is actually an illusion as over time, none are actually getting any closer to the finish line).

Similarly you do not need inflation or money printing to create productivity. For example, this is why in the US between 1880 and 1914, there was a surge in productivity, yet inflation averaged 0.1% per annum during this period Why? Because they money supply was fixed (ie on the Gold Standard). So its really absolutely absurd to suggest that "if you have a fixed money supply you fail". Give it some thought - you will eventually get it.

You are really confusing real value and productivity with nominal prices when you say that "the largest/fastest property gains come during the money printing inflationary cycles." I'll give you another very basic example. Lets say the average home in a country is worth 100K. How to we make everyone millionaires? We just debase the currency and print 10x the amount of money, and boom, each houses now worth 1 million! If only it were that simple :) So yes, everyone is now 10x richer, but that money now can only purchase 1/10 as much. Its like having a perpetual motion machine which defies the laws of physics. Many politicians fall into this trap, and they all realize eventually learn the hard way.

So its really absolutely absurd to suggest that "if you have a fixed money supply you fail".

As for being safe to hold BTC in banks, my view is that anytime you deposit anything with a 3rd party, you are not the owner. Money with a bank is simply a debt owed to you. Its not "your money". Bank goes under, and all you are is a creditor who has a claim against the bank. The ETF's will be highly regulated, so pretty safe, but still, "not your keys not your coin".

I don't think any financial model can be called a "scam" unless you are investing with the creator of that model on the belief that it will produce a promised return. And if you are doing that, then you are not understanding what the purpose of a model is (and again, perhaps some smart people really are confused on this). The purpose of financial models are to guide us in predicting what may occur in the future. And models are of course tweaked as new data constantly impacts the model. But by all means, we should always critically assess any model, use it / reject it. modify it, weight it etc, as we see fit, and incorporate it into our overall predictions along with all other variables as we best see fit. If Plan B said tha "x WILL HAPPEN", then clearly he was wrong. Any responsible analyst would frame it more carefully and explain that based on their model, which may or may not be correct, and in the absence of all other variables, x, is LIKELY TO HAPPEN. This distinction should be obvious, but I can see how people in mainstream YouTube-influencer land perhaps took these predictions as statements of fact and followed on blind faith. If so, lesson hopefully learned.

IroNat

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10041 on: January 05, 2024, 05:26:30 AM »
One thing often mentioned about Bitcoin is that it's worth depends on The Greater Fool Theory.

>

Greater fool theory

In finance, the greater fool theory suggests that one can sometimes make money through the purchase of overvalued assets — items with a purchase price drastically exceeding the intrinsic value — if those assets can later be resold at an even higher price.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10042 on: January 05, 2024, 05:38:19 AM »
One thing often mentioned about Bitcoin is that it's worth depends on The Greater Fool Theory.

>

Greater fool theory

In finance, the greater fool theory suggests that one can sometimes make money through the purchase of overvalued assets — items with a purchase price drastically exceeding the intrinsic value — if those assets can later be resold at an even higher price.


Neither BTC nor paper /fiat money have any intrinsic value. Both rely entirely on faith and confidence that others will continue to accept it and give it the value it had when it was acquired. The main difference being is that BTC is fixed and limited in supply, whereas paper / fiat money is not. What we, as investors, protectors and allocators of our capital need to do, is decide which currencies are likely to retain or increase in confidence, demand and adoption over time, and which ones will fail.

What we do know, with certainty, is that all fiat currencies decline in value over time, whereas BTC is finite in supply.

affeman

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10043 on: January 05, 2024, 05:40:50 AM »
Neither BTC nor paper /fiat money have any intrinsic value. Both rely entirely on faith and confidence that others will continue to accept it and give it the value it had when it was acquired. The main difference being is that BTC is fixed and limited in supply, whereas paper /fiat money is not.

Who the f*ck would care if something without any intrinsic value is fixed and limited in supply or not? ;D

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10044 on: January 05, 2024, 05:43:27 AM »
Who the f*ck would care if something without any intrinsic value is fixed and limited in supply or not? ;D

Pretty much just anyone wanting an incorruptible global ledger for storing value...

IroNat

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10045 on: January 05, 2024, 05:50:07 AM »
Neither BTC nor paper /fiat money have any intrinsic value. Both rely entirely on faith and confidence that others will continue to accept it and give it the value it had when it was acquired. The main difference being is that BTC is fixed and limited in supply, whereas paper / fiat money is not. What we, as investors, protectors and allocators of our capital need to do, is decide which currencies are likely to retain or increase in confidence, demand and adoption over time, and which ones will fail.

What we do know, with certainty, is that all fiat currencies decline in value over time, whereas BTC is finite in supply.

How is Bitcoin fixed in supply when people make more with computers?

Can you go in the supermarket and buy groceries with Bitcoin or do you have to convert your Bitcoin into fiat currency first?

BigRo

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10046 on: January 05, 2024, 05:51:39 AM »
Can you really make alot of money on bitcoin trading platforms? On Facebook you see pictures of happy people with wads of cash in front of new homes etc and I find it hard to believe.

IroNat

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10047 on: January 05, 2024, 05:53:10 AM »
Can you really make alot of money on bitcoin trading platforms? On Facebook you see pictures of happy people with wads of cash in front of new homes etc and I find it hard to believe.

There are photos on the internet of happy multi-level marketing (like AmWay) distributors living in waterfront mansions with luxury cars.

It does happen but it is extremely rare.  So rare it is comparable to winning a huge lottery Mega Jackpot.

affeman

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10048 on: January 05, 2024, 05:56:51 AM »
Pretty much just anyone wanting an incorruptible global ledger for storing value...


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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #10049 on: January 05, 2024, 05:58:59 AM »
Neither BTC nor paper /fiat money have any intrinsic value.

I love my paper/fiat money.  I use it to buy stocks, bonds, property, cars, pay bills, pay for food, vacations, and anything else I want to.