Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[TheGrinch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7hmjdw/my_brother_killed_himself_because_of_btc/

My brother killed himself because of BTC

[obsidian]

Here to steal fella gib's thunder 

$14,453

There has to be a ceiling on this shit. All other currencies are dropping except Bitcoin.

[gib]

For many people in the world the mass delusion was to trust the government with their wealth whilst having it effectively stolen through money printing. The rational decision is to created a mutually agreed to, unmanipulatable, communally accepted store of value, support by the truth of magic. If you were to get out of the US you would see why this is happening in so many parts of the world. Combine that with everyone having a mobile phone and boom you have in place the ingredients for a financial revolution which is now underway. It cannot be stopped.

I am here to help all getbiggers make sure the don’t avoid the coming reality. It’s still possible to get a piece of the total number of btc. Mr Anabolic in the interests of informing yourself, why don’t you go through the process of buying some, and then reflecting on the experience. It will enable you to have a more informed discussion and it may change your perspective.

If you make a sensible argument I will try to address. For example please explain why you think gold is not a Ponzi scheme or bubble whereas btc is?

Oh and $13,300.

Let me elaborate on this for you Mr Anabolic, as its a very important concept to understand and explains what is going on right now (and as a gold investor I think some of this will resonate with you).

For most Americans (and others in the developed world) are still waiting for the post-global economic crisis “recovery” to appear nearly a decade on from the crisis. In the US its taken a full decade for median real inflation adjusted household income to return to its 2007 level. So to that extent, the Government has "stolen" from its people, basically by deluding them with fake money.

Meanwhile, financial asset prices have skyrocketed. The S&P500 is now more than 260 percent above its global economic crisis low. Yet real incomes, are only just returning to pre-crisis levels now. There’s no bubble in incomes, that’s for sure. Indeed there is an inverse bubble, if anything.

So, where does a "rational person" put their money? Into cash, which is devaluing and over which they have no control? Or into a new method of exchange and store of value, outside of the reach of the government, and governed by the purity of the law of mathematics? And who are the deluded ones? The ones holding on to pieces of paper that are becoming increasing valueless? Or the ones putting their faith into a collective newly agreed upon universal store of value?

Oh, and...nevermind...

[obsidian]

How many coins do the Winkelvoss twins have between them?? 500,000?

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/people/083016/who-are-top-5-bitcoin-millionaires.asp

[gib]

People are not analysing the price as to why it goes up and down...etc and no one really can as Bitcoin has no real value unlike an apple share which you can link to underlying assets, sales performance, management team...etc .

Am I in crypto? Yes, just like I am into putting money on fights, games and races...money thrown into the hat as a punt.

Let me address this comparison to Apple example, which on the face of it sounds intelligent, but actually requires a little more thought...

The fact that, Apple, or any company for that matter has tangible assets, does not mean it is an inherently good investment. Apple, for example has the same assets and prospects, regardless of whether its share price is $100, $500, or $1000. As a value investor, we would need to decide at what price per share Apple would be a good buy, (in terms of applying a formula of anticipated likely up side over and above the return on cash + risk premium for holding stock as opposed to cash). What investors such as myself and Buffet etc do is to look at companies, and then only buy where there is very clear value in applying this formula - so again, don't be deluded - great companies can come at great (as in highly overvalued) prices.

Now, taking this a step further, one might take the view that many mainstream assets are significantly overvalued right now. If so, then such assets are not what you want to be in, and indeed you might want to be in cash so that if/when those other assets decline to fair value you can maximize the value of that cash by deploying it. But now, here's the thing - cash itself is under pressure. Next financial crisis, what will happen? That's right, even more cash will be printed. So, where does that leave us in terms of a safe store of value? That's right -Bitcoin. (And why Bitcoin, and not other currencies? See my earlier posts which explain). And even better, because due to mathematically limited supply, any increase in demand (of which there will be a lot of in the coming years) puts a squeeze on price - "parabolic gains", to use a seemingly intelligent term coined by Mr Anabolic . Now, let me ask you this - who doesn't like a store of value, universally accepted, with significant upside...

[gib]

Let me address this comparison to Apple example, which on the face of it sounds intelligent, but actually requires a little more thought...

The fact that, Apple, or any company for that matter has tangible assets, does not mean it is an inherently good investment. Apple, for example has the same assets and prospects, regardless of whether its share price is $100, $500, or $1000. As a value investor, we would need to decide at what price per share Apple would be a good buy, (in terms of applying a formula of anticipated likely up side over and above the return on cash + risk premium for holding stock as opposed to cash). What investors such as myself and Buffet etc do is to look at companies, and then only buy where there is very clear value in applying this formula - so again, don't be deluded - great companies can come at great (as in highly overvalued) prices.

Now, taking this a step further, one might take the view that many mainstream assets are significantly overvalued right now. If so, then such assets are not what you want to be in, and indeed you might want to be in cash so that if/when those other assets decline to fair value you can maximize the value of that cash by deploying it. But now, here's the thing - cash itself is under pressure. Next financial crisis, what will happen? That's right, even more cash will be printed. So, where does that leave us in terms of a safe store of value? That's right -Bitcoin. (And why Bitcoin, and not other currencies? See my earlier posts which explain). And even better, because due to mathematically limited supply, any increase in demand (of which there will be a lot of in the coming years) puts a squeeze on price - "parabolic gains", to use a seemingly intelligent term coined by Mr Anabolic . Now, let me ask you this - who doesn't like a store of value, universally accepted, with significant upside...

Again, my aim is not to humiliate Mr Anabolic. He is a good contributor, and solid and sound financial sense. However, (as will be obvious to some), I do function at a very high level financially (and that's not an attempt to be arrogant, just the reality). Lets continue the discussion as we are making Getbig history here folks, and I am using Getbig of all places as a medium for my thoughts.

[gib]

Again, my aim is not to humiliate Mr Anabolic. He is a good contributor, and solid and sound financial sense. However, (as will be obvious to some), I do function at a very high level financially (and that's not an attempt to be arrogant, just the reality). Lets continue the discussion as we are making Getbig history here folks, and I am using Getbig of all places as a medium for my thoughts.

Oh, and $13,700.

[ratherbebig]

doesnt matter how much bitcoins are worth its not worth spending 24-7 thinking about and checking if it goes up or down.

that mental prison i wish upon nobody.

[Slapper]

And, it sounds as though the IRS is getting ready to go fishing.

[gib]

doesnt matter how much bitcoins are worth its not worth spending 24-7 thinking about and checking if it goes up or down.

that mental prison i wish upon nobody.

I agree, its a nice position to be invested broadly such that you can ideally only check and re-allocate monthly, for example. Many of my friends are at that point, where they basically re-allocate monthly, quarterly or half yearly and ignore the "noise'. I'm like that with 90% or so of my assets but more active with the other 10%. (To be clear, for me, BTC is a long term hedge on the future - I don't actively trade).

Having said that, for anyone that has so much allocated to BTC that they really are tracking it 24/7, I wouldn't be too sorry for them - its a nice problem to have, and can be resolved at anytime simply by selling $$

[Slapper]

I agree, its a nice position to be invested broadly such that you can ideally only check and re-allocate monthly, for example. Many of my friends are at that point, where they basically re-allocate monthly, quarterly or half yearly and ignore the "noise'. I'm like that with 90% or so of my assets but more active with the other 10%. (To be clear, for me, BTC is a long term hedge on the future - I don't actively trade).

Having said that, for anyone that has so much allocated to BTC that they really are tracking it 24/7, I wouldn't be too sorry for them - its a nice problem to have, and can be resolved at anytime simply by selling $$

Do you own Iota? Used Binance?

[SOMEPARTS]

Here to steal fella gib's thunder 

$14,453

There has to be a ceiling on this shit. All other currencies are dropping except Bitcoin.

One of the things about Bitcoin that gives it an advantage is some other cryptos need to be bought using Bitcoin first. It's not easy to just buy Litecoin for instance without a position in Bitcoin, limited access....

Based on tech alone regular Bitcoin is already behind, but it has put capital in the crypto market that will stay there. Once a better exchange or fee structure develops people will flow into another option. A 2% fee on a $1000 valuation not so bad but at $14k not so good. etc. One big hack on Coinbase and people will be off looking for the next platform.

IOTA is an interesting concept that solves some fee issues. The tech is going to change and partner with banks and retailers because people aren't going to buy $500 worth of crypto and just let it sit there. They want to spend it.

[gib]

One of the things about Bitcoin that gives it an advantage is some other cryptos need to be bought using Bitcoin first. It's not easy to just buy Litecoin for instance without a position in Bitcoin, limited access....

Based on tech alone regular Bitcoin is already behind, but it has put capital in the crypto market that will stay there. Once a better exchange or fee structure develops people will flow into another option. A 2% fee on a $1000 valuation not so bad but at $14k not so good. etc. One big hack on Coinbase and people will be off looking for the next platform.

IOTA is an interesting concept that solves some fee issues. The tech is going to change and partner with banks and retailers because people aren't going to buy $500 worth of crypto and just let it sit there. They want to spend it.

Bitcoin is the big daddy and has critical mass. It will continue to attract the bulk of money, and will be the entry point for any newbee into crypto, let alone conservative pension funds, and HNW individuals and private bankers.

The "better exchange" that will evolve is peer-to-peer. And lets not forget, that the commissions that exchanges charge for BTC are already smaller that the commission charged on a typical transaction on physical gold.

Am I buying other crypto? No, because I am inherently conservative - I like to invest on something as much as a "sure thing" as possible. I acknowledge of course that better, and different technologies of course will come along - good luck to anyone who does manage to pick and invest in another successful coin!

[Sizwe]

I know all about the Fed reserve.  The US dollar will be dead in a few years... totally worthless.
Ben Bernanke recently gave a speech about benefits of bitcoin and cryptos/tokens.  What government/central bank would let some outside fiat currency instrument compete with their own fiat currency?  Answer... they wouldn't, unless they created it.  
About 10 years ago the feds arrested and threw someone in jail for making a Ron Paul coin that had a $1 dollar value on it.  
Goldman Sachs is now promoting and investing it in.  There are crypto/token ETF's coming.  
If the government is not behind it, they are certainly allowing and/or adopting it.  
The main goal is to take away the anonymity of physical cash so they can trace, track and tax everything.  
The end game is complete control.  
Say/do something subversive or negative about the government or a politician, they'll simply turn off your account access with a flick of a switch.

That would be quite Machiavellian indeed, and here's Julian Assange thinking he's got the drop on them..lol
https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/919247873648283653

[Zillotch]

I know all about the Fed reserve.  The US dollar will be dead in a few years... totally worthless.

Ben Bernanke recently gave a speech about benefits of bitcoin and cryptos/tokens.  What government/central bank would let some outside fiat currency instrument compete with their own fiat currency?  Answer... they wouldn't, unless they created it.  

About 10 years ago the feds arrested and threw someone in jail for making a Ron Paul coin that had a $1 dollar value on it.  

Goldman Sachs is now promoting and investing it in.  There are crypto/token ETF's coming.  

If the government is not behind it, they are certainly allowing and/or adopting it.  

The main goal is to take away the anonymity of physical cash so they can trace, track and tax everything.  

The end game is complete control.  

Say/do something subversive or negative about the government or a politician, they'll simply turn off your account access with a flick of a switch.

x2

[QuietYou]

x2

Any proof that the most stable currency in the world is gonna be dead in a few years, other than because you said so?

[Zillotch]

Any proof that the most stable currency in the world is gonna be dead in a few years?

would u be upset if it was?

[Griffith]

I have a small amount in Bitcoin.

However, I do have some issues with it. Most of the people buying and holding Bitcoin are doing so for speculative reasons, very few are using it as a currency or for payments.

One of the most important characteristics of a currency is stability. Volatility and massive swings make people unwilling or hesitant to spend and make it difficult for a business to function which has to plan orders and buying of material and stock for the future.

Another issue is that when more traders and larger banks get involved, the chances of speculative attack increase, they do it on currencies and a 10-20% drop is considered a near disaster. There is no reserve bank to 'defend' Bitcoin or limit outflows or soften a massive sell-off.

Also, saying national currencies are just 'pieces of paper' and based only on sentiment is not true, there is a national economy behind a currency which includes factors of production, development and businesses which produce tangible things.

The national currency, if a floating one, is viewed basically the share price of the perceived value, strength, potential and stability of the national economy.

Another concern is that if this catches on and governments decide to copy it and act against Bitcoin, it would tumble to nothing.

Ideally, I would say a cryptocurrency should aim for price stability and this would encourage far more people to actually use it.

[QuietYou]

would u be upset if it was?

Yes

[gib]

I have a small amount in Bitcoin.

However, I do have some issues with it. Most of the people buying and holding Bitcoin are doing so for speculative reasons, very few are using it as a currency or for payments.

One of the most important characteristics of a currency is stability. Volatility and massive swings make people unwilling or hesitant to spend and make it difficult for a business to function which has to plan orders and buying of material and stock for the future.

Another issue is that when more traders and larger banks get involved, the chances of speculative attack increase, they do it on currencies and a 10-20% drop is considered a near disaster. There is no reserve bank to 'defend' Bitcoin or limit outflows or soften a massive sell-off.

Also, saying national currencies are just 'pieces of paper' and based only on sentiment is not true, there is a national economy behind a currency which includes factors of production, development and businesses which produce tangible things.

The national currency, if a floating one, is viewed basically the share price of the perceived value, strength, potential and stability of the national economy.

Another concern is that if this catches on and governments decide to copy it and act against Bitcoin, it would tumble to nothing.

Ideally, I would say a cryptocurrency should aim for price stability and this would encourage far more people to actually use it.

Glad you have some bitcoin. You have secured your future. I would urge anyone to get hold of just a small amount. Usd 1k now may be a great hedge against what may eventuate in the future.

As bitcoin grows into a global currency of course it will be volatile (mainly upwards!). There is no perfect way to smoothly transition billions of dollars in cash globally into a new digital currency. If we decided to suddenly pick a new metal as a store of value the same phenomenon would occur. Long term the value of bitcoin may stabilise but I suspect we are a long way off that yet. So for now buckle up and enjoy what may become the fastest and most rapid creation of a new universal store of wealth in history.

[gib]

$13.800

[gib]

$13,900. Ho hum ... $$$

[gib]

Study this s-curve adoption graph closely. All successful new technologies follow the same curve for the most part. With only a 7 billion dollar market cap it's completely safe to say Bitcoin is in its infancy/early adopter state. After mass public adoption, which is on its way in the near future, we will see a Bitcoin price that will leave you in shock. Throw a few bucks in it.

I found this quote from Ganuvanx from back in 2014 in response to Mr Anabolic had written that bitcoins are a fairytale:). I didn’t realise his views want back so far historically. Again I predict he will come around but I bet he’s kicking himself for not getting it then!

[gib]

$14,000 ...

[gib]

It just passed $15,000 in USA exchange (GDAX) and $18,000 in South Korea (Bitthumb).

Yep. I am a very conservative investor. I always build in safety margins when valuing assets.