Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1130324 times)

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3019
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7500 on: June 25, 2021, 09:26:19 PM »
You are confusing cause and effect. The same number of BTCs are produced regardless of hashrate. The algo adjusts every 2 weeks, to ensure that the supply of BTC remains constant. So, for example, if we suddenly had half the hash rate, the mining difficulty would make it twice as lucrative for the remaining miners to mine. Currently around 900 coins are created a day (and that will drop to around 450 at next halvening). That 900 until then continues, regardless of hashrate.

So, a decline in hash-rate itself has zero impact on price. However, if you ban miners (like what happened in China), and those miners then move offshore, and then whilst they do that and move their rigs, hash-rate falls until they get back on line. And if those miners were then further long term hodlers, but suddenly then needed to sell their sats all at once in order to get the funds to finance the move their operations, yes that than can impact price. The important point being, its not the hash rate that impacted price. Rather the price fell due to miners selling to meet short term liquidity needs, and then whilst they were moving their operations their rigs went off line which in turn impacted hash rate,

And this is where I begin to have a real problem with Bitcoin overall.

Either the network matters or it doesn’t. Either speed matters or it doesn’t.

If El Salvadore starts using volcanos to mine Bitcoin it’s apparently bullish according to maxis and the main influencers.

Yet When China shutdown 50% of BTC mining apparently it doesn’t matter at all.

Ok then, shutdown 99% of the network because clearly it doesn’t matter OR The reality is unless you are pumping increasingly mammoth amounts of energy into the bitcoin ecosystem it can’t grow. It’s as simple as Bitcoin is energy.

Here is the hash rate chart. Drop the hash rate back to 2015 level and guess what happens to price?

This isn’t a dig at you btw gib, you are a nice guy but The fact is with the hashrate crashed price will trend towards that level. It will take time to restore the hash rate and we won’t see any new high prices until that happens.

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3019
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7501 on: June 25, 2021, 10:20:36 PM »
Welcome back, when you entering back into the market?  Your cash on the sidelines in stable  coins  or fiat?

Not back yet.

July or August

I’m in fiat.

Will be heavy Doge.



polychronopolous

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19041
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7502 on: June 25, 2021, 10:25:26 PM »
Correct.  Hash rate follows bitcoin price. China forced a shutdown of 60%+ of the Bitcoin network infrastructure. Forced to relocate to countries with more freedoms and renewable energy. This is a + for long sustained btc growth.  Short term, will see llengthier block times, but once difficulty readjusts it will be rock n roll.

You cut the head of the hydra off in one place(China) and it simply grows several more by packing up and moving operations, Kazakhstan and Texas being prime examples.

The network becomes FURTHER decentralized and the China FUD narrative takes a MAJOR hit in the process.

FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7503 on: June 26, 2021, 01:20:52 AM »
Internet Computer ICP is down around 95 % from its high.

Ethereum is down around 60 % from its high.

FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7504 on: June 26, 2021, 01:22:02 AM »
You cut the head of the hydra off in one place(China) and it simply grows several more by packing up and moving operations, Kazakhstan and Texas being prime examples.

The network becomes FURTHER decentralized and the China FUD narrative takes a MAJOR hit in the process.

Will people want to make big mining operations in El Salvador and elsewhere if the prices of cryptos keep falling?

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7505 on: June 26, 2021, 01:33:46 AM »
Will people want to make big mining operations in El Salvador and elsewhere if the prices of cryptos keep falling?

Obviously no, not if it really kept falling. But its not falling. Indeed its rising. Its up over the last 10 years, 5 years, 2 years, 1 year, 6 months... etc and has been an outstanding performing asset class over these time periods.

Most successful investors take a long term view on a trend, as opposed to a short term view on a price.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7506 on: June 26, 2021, 01:56:53 AM »
And this is where I begin to have a real problem with Bitcoin overall.

Either the network matters or it doesn’t. Either speed matters or it doesn’t.

If El Salvadore starts using volcanos to mine Bitcoin it’s apparently bullish according to maxis and the main influencers.

Yet When China shutdown 50% of BTC mining apparently it doesn’t matter at all.

Ok then, shutdown 99% of the network because clearly it doesn’t matter OR The reality is unless you are pumping increasingly mammoth amounts of energy into the bitcoin ecosystem it can’t grow. It’s as simple as Bitcoin is energy.

Here is the hash rate chart. Drop the hash rate back to 2015 level and guess what happens to price?

This isn’t a dig at you btw gib, you are a nice guy but The fact is with the hashrate crashed price will trend towards that level. It will take time to restore the hash rate and we won’t see any new high prices until that happens.

Its price that drives mining (and not the other way around). The reason for that is that the supply is fixed, regardless of how much energy is expended on mining.

So, if you take gold as an example, more mining WILL increase supply. However, if you take BTC, no matter how much mining energy used, the new supply created will remain the same.

If I could theoretically add 50% of new mining overnight, this would double hashrate, but would create zero upside in the price of BTC. (Indeed it might arguably even suppress the price, as existing miners might need to shut their now far less profitable operations, and/or sell off their accumulated BTC to help cover costs).

Its the price of BTC that determines how much energy is deployed to mine BTC (not the other way around).

If BTC goes UP in price, the profit existing miners can make also GOES UP. Hence that leads to more miners being incentivised to mine and this continues until an equilibrium is reached and until total mining cost divided by value of BTC created becomes cost neutral.

Similarly, if the price of BTC goes down, those miners who cannot mine profitably close up shop, and hash rate then falls.

You are making the error in logic equivalent of saying that its puddles of water on the ground that cause it to rain, because when you see puddles its raining. There is a difference between CORRELATION, and CAUSE and EFFECT. So, yes, puddles on the ground do correlate with it having rained, but its the rain that caused the puddles (and not the other way around).

Read Satoshi's whitepaper where he talks about mining incentives where he writes that its the value of BTC created as a reward from mining that:

"adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them. The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended."

To me the seems entirely obvious but it seems its actually quite common misunderstanding.

Below is a well researched paper on the topic by economists Dean Fantazzini and Nikita Kolodin titled "Does the Hashrate Affect the Bitcoin Price?"

They state:

"There is a long-lived perception that the bitcoin price and the hashrate (i.e., the number of computations done by bitcoin miners) are connected. Some works in the financial literature went further and theorized that the movements of the hashrate are useful in predicting the bitcoin price.

And conclude:

"The causality is always unidirectional going from the bitcoin price to the hashrate (or its proxies), with lags ranging from one week up to six weeks later.

See a longer explanation here:

https://medium.com/coinshares/an-honest-explanation-of-price-hashrate-bitcoin-mining-network-dynamics-f820d6218bdf


FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7507 on: June 26, 2021, 03:07:10 AM »
I am curious to hear what you guys think about the bitcoin trading possibilities.

I support that it is possible to trade bitcoin 34/7, 365 days per year, but is it really healthy?

What if people could trade the stock market on saturdays and sundays?

I think it is good for managing volatility that trading is restricted to certain times, like we do in the stock market.

Jakobslander

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7508 on: June 26, 2021, 03:07:41 AM »
. India, China, Turkey, Iran and now potentially Europe banning BTC. You're  in luck! Expect wild volatility all the way down to 0.No better place to be than in this thread where traders are always up. 90% who trade on these markets end up losing. You've  stumbled across the 10% always in  the green.  Look out for the buy signals!

How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.

FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7509 on: June 26, 2021, 03:10:31 AM »
How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.

The issue is complex and I don't understand it fully, but Europe can ban people from owning bitcoin, like it is illegal to own drugs. Then if you can own it or not, technically speaking, is another issue.

Jakobslander

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7510 on: June 26, 2021, 03:11:39 AM »
I am curious to hear what you guys think about the bitcoin trading possibilities.

I support that it is possible to trade bitcoin 34/7, 365 days per year, but is it really healthy?

What if people could trade the stock market on saturdays and sundays?

I think it is good for managing volatility that trading is restricted to certain times, like we do in the stock market.

It would greatly reduce arbitrage and, with it, volatility. I am aware of two BTC OTC products that get toyed with every Friday. Literally, the powers-that-be drop it like a stone and then, come 4:05PM on Friday, BTC flies and the derivatives get left behind. Then, on Monday morning, pre-open, the powers-that-be drop BTC 1K and the expectations get tamed out. At one point GBTC, to give you one example, accumulated a discount of over 20% while these weekend shenanigans were going on.

Jakobslander

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7511 on: June 26, 2021, 03:14:42 AM »
The issue is complex and I don't understand it fully, but Europe can ban people from owning bitcoin, like it is illegal to own drugs. Then if you can own it or not, technically speaking, is another issue.

And that's where people make a huge mistake, in equating BTC to wants. BTC is a need. Even if the ECB bans it, people are still going to transact in it. And there's not a single thing they can do about it but spread fear.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7512 on: June 26, 2021, 03:51:08 AM »
How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.

Exactly. It's like trying to "ban the moon" or "ban it from raining" or "ban that 1+1 = 2". We look back in time at how utterly ridiculous it was to proclaim a "ban" on bitcoin, which is essentially just a mathematical algorithm combined with human thought which people collectively use as a medium of value exchange.

Some articles on this topic here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2019/07/30/us-lawmakers-are-realizing-they-cant-ban-bitcoin/?sh=6e338ce13e31

https://journal.bitcoinreserve.com/is-it-possible-to-ban-bitcoin/

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/here-is-why-a-ban-on-cryptocurrencies-may-not-be-even-possible/articleshow/82741310.cms

SOMEPARTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16628
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7513 on: June 26, 2021, 12:27:03 PM »
How do you ban something you have no control over? I don't think people understand blockchain technology. The only way to stop BTC and most other cryptos would be to shut down the internet, and that is not going to happen.

Please, someone, explain to me how the ECB can "ban" BTC. I'm all ears.


Govts control ISPs and port based code can be blocked at ISP level. Said it many times here to crickets.

SOMEPARTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16628
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7514 on: June 26, 2021, 12:31:44 PM »
Truly revolutionary. Will be fascinating how this develops. Other central american countries will follow I suspect.


McAfee dead and now president of pro-crypto Paraguay has flat relatives in that Florida condo:


https://foxnewsupdates.com/news/usa/dallas/relatives-of-paraguays-first-lady-missing-in-miami-collapse/



Three days ago many articles about them passing a bill to take BTC but now this u-turn:


https://www.trtworld.com/business/paraguay-not-looking-to-make-bitcoin-a-legal-tender-lawmaker-47849


OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14162
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7515 on: June 26, 2021, 12:33:27 PM »

McAfee dead and now president of pro-crypto Paraguay has flat relatives in that Florida condo:


https://foxnewsupdates.com/news/usa/dallas/relatives-of-paraguays-first-lady-missing-in-miami-collapse/



Three days ago many articles about them passing a bill to take BTC but now this u-turn:


https://www.trtworld.com/business/paraguay-not-looking-to-make-bitcoin-a-legal-tender-lawmaker-47849

What's your theory on the connection between the two?

"1"

SOMEPARTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16628
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7516 on: June 26, 2021, 12:45:28 PM »
What's your theory on the connection between the two?

"1"


I don't know about direct connection but it would seem when things get too truthful or some sort of control structure is challenged serious things happen to people. The ability to bury the stories along with the people should be just as concerning.



Theoak*

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1436
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7517 on: June 26, 2021, 05:00:22 PM »
The issue is complex and I don't understand it fully, but Europe can ban people from owning bitcoin, like it is illegal to own drugs. Then if you can own it or not, technically speaking, is another issue.

It's  not complex. Nothing  is getting banned  certainly  not a multi trillion $ asset class.  The ECB along with other banks will try suppress  usage while they wrap their heads around creating a CBDC which will  work along side BTC as SoV.  They'll  release statements scaring the next wave of adopters "china bans btc", "ECB cautions BTC usage".  It's  nothing more than a stall tactic.

The adoption rate will see 1billion  users by 2024-2025.  So far more people are adopting  crypto  faster than the internet in its first 10 years. 

Do not believe what they say and actually watch what they do. They're  priming to work along side crypto. 

SOMEPARTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16628
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7518 on: June 26, 2021, 07:43:23 PM »
It's  not complex. Nothing  is getting banned  certainly  not a multi trillion $ asset class.  The ECB along with other banks will try suppress  usage while they wrap their heads around creating a CBDC which will  work along side BTC as SoV.  They'll  release statements scaring the next wave of adopters "china bans btc", "ECB cautions BTC usage".  It's  nothing more than a stall tactic.

The adoption rate will see 1billion  users by 2024-2025.  So far more people are adopting  crypto  faster than the internet in its first 10 years. 

Do not believe what they say and actually watch what they do. They're  priming to work along side crypto.


And like everything else in recorded history they get the real stuff while regular people get a derivative of value.

Theoak*

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1436
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7519 on: June 26, 2021, 08:35:58 PM »

And like everything else in recorded history they get the real stuff while regular people get a derivative of value.

History is written by the winners....first time in history we have blockchain technology. So once recorded and agreed upon, history will be unaltered for future reference.  You're absolutely right, powerful innovation which is transforming our monetary system and the way we store  energy/data.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7520 on: June 26, 2021, 11:19:34 PM »

And like everything else in recorded history they get the real stuff while regular people get a derivative of value.

The real stuff is Bitcoin. And its available to anyone, globally, who has the foresight to acquire it.

Government coins on the other hand, are unlikely to ever be created in a way that truely limits their supply. And further, if you think any of the fake FUD was significant for BTC, wait until the real FUD comes out around Government coins. Think tracking, limitations on use according to each person or cohort, instant taxation, instant confiscation for fines, limits on intranational  transfer, limitations on indeed recipients, etc etc. That FUD will be a MASSIVE driver for a decentralized global asset such as Bitcoin.

And its such a simple play. Simply buy now, stack sats, and HODL...

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7521 on: June 26, 2021, 11:56:15 PM »

Govts control ISPs and port based code can be blocked at ISP level. Said it many times here to crickets.

First, very unlikely any Government would even try do to this, or want to. Most leading and dominant countries (China being the exception) cherish values such as individual freedom of speech, choice, thought, expression etc. And some have such concepts constitutionally enshrined. They realize, that Bitcoin is nothing more than a medium of exchange that people, globally have collectively agreed to use, and that such creation and use of and desire for an asset is a natural evolution of technology.

Second, even less likely they would succeed in doing so. As we are seeing in China as an example, VPNs are used. Another option is for traffic to be routed through Tor. Also (again as seen in China), people simply access/buy whenever on any overseas trip outside of the jurisdiction. For many people from China, the first thing on their "shopping list" once overseas is bitcoin. They set up a wallet, get their sats, and know they will be forever accessible if they ever leave China (whereas all local assets might simply be seized, and all CCDCs simply seized or cancelled for any "wrongdoer" (including those overseas).

A government could try to ban computers, phones, and the entire usage of the internet in their country, but again very very unlikely that any modern and successful country would do this, let along be able to enforce. North Korea is probably the most successful in having done something that approaches this.

So again, for all practical intents and purposes, the FUD that a Government might "block" access to or use of Bitcoin is highly unrealistic.

Successful investors consider the likelihood of future scenarios, and then invest accordingly (as opposed to unsuccessful investors, who think up far-fetched and ridiculous scenarios and then invest accordingly...)


IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39245
  • There was a man called (blank)
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7522 on: June 27, 2021, 06:00:56 AM »
Thank goodness no governments have made wearing masks mandatory.

Jakobslander

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7523 on: June 27, 2021, 07:03:31 AM »

Govts control ISPs and port based code can be blocked at ISP level. Said it many times here to crickets.

Ports and ISPs are not code. What you’re talking about are filters. These filters can be easily bypassed with a VPN. I do it all the time with the PPV stuff.

Guys, you gotta think harder. Come on!



SOMEPARTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16628
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #7524 on: June 27, 2021, 07:24:08 AM »
If you two are trying to say regarding BTC:

1) govt can't ban BTC as it relates to the average person needed for widespread adoption

2) that it would become even more popular if they did

We can deal in reality rather than wishes.

Yeah, VPN and TOR ...but the average person in the USA doesn't want to be a pirate with a target on their back and let's be honest it's just a black market way to move money without the USA. As soon as they made it "illegal" all the normies would be out of it for good.

As said above they got people to wear masks for a year for no reason...people also pay taxes for the same reasons. This would be nothing to pull off...viral on social media and 24 hour news cycle of "you are a criminal if you have BTC" ... gone in days easy peasy.