Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[gib]

I don't know why people get excited when they hear Greyscale and crypto. The only thing they've done is milk people left and right with their 2% management fee, and the only reason why they did not apply for an ETF (even though Seibert and Sonnensheim have been saying for 3 years that they were going to apply) is because they are making a mountain of money. They do not care their products are selling at a discount during a bull market. I mean GBTC was selling at a -22% discount like 2 weeks ago, and ETHE was selling at almost a -10% discount like 5 days ago. Not only that, they allowed the disparity to be arbitraged left and right, which is the reason the discount kept getting larger and larger: People buying BTC and shorting GBTC.

Want to talk about a SCAM? Grayscale is the best of them.

Until they become BUYERS of crypto again, crypto will not increase in value.

They get excited, because its just one more small step towards greater adoption and legitimatization, at the very least creating awareness to a whole new class of investor.

You are right though - the futures ETF is not an ideal structure for any long term BTC HODLer (which is of course what we all should be).

[Slapper]

They get excited, because its just one more small step towards greater adoption and legitimatization, at the very least creating awareness to a whole new class of investor.

You are right though - the futures ETF is not an ideal structure for any long term BTC HODLer (which is of course what we all should be).

Willy Woo said it best: "If Grayscale’s BTC ETF was approved and it charged 0.25% fees in line with many Gold ETFs, it would have to hold 28% of the BTC circulating supply in order to make the same fees revenue as GBTC does today."Do you think for a second they like the idea of turning their products into ETFs? No! They're going to delay it as much as they can. Everybody knows what they're doing now...

Grayscale are essentially behaving like Blockbuster back when NetFlix came into the scene: completely ambivalent, ignoring the obvious warning signs and acting like they own The Shit. GBTC is on route to selling at a -40% discount during a bull market. ETHE will quickly follow suit. It's almost like Seibert and Sonnensheim want the products to collapse.

I really do not know how they think this is going to help bring in another class of investors into the ecosystem. I mean, if you think for a second someone holding 1mm in cash is going to jump into some obscure OTC or ETF product that sells at a discount, I got a statue and a bridge to sell you. And a futures-based ETF, which is what the two tweety-baids are planning, will not get rid of the discount.

[Mayday]

Willy Woo said it best: "If Grayscale’s BTC ETF was approved and it charged 0.25% fees in line with many Gold ETFs, it would have to hold 28% of the BTC circulating supply in order to make the same fees revenue as GBTC does today."Do you think for a second they like the idea or turning their products into ETFs? No! They're going to delay it as much as they can. Everybody knows what they're doing now...

Greyscale are essentially behaving like Blockbuster back when NetFlix came into the scene: completely ambivalent, ignoring the obvious warning signs and acting like they own The Shit. GBTC is on route to selling at a -40% discount during a bull market. ETHE will quickly follow suit. It's almost like Seibert and Sonnensheim want the products to collapse.

I really do not know how they think this is going to help bring in another class of investors into the ecosystem. I mean, if you think for a second someone holding 1mm in cash is going to jump into some obscure OTC or ETF product that sells at a discount, I got a statue and a bridge to sell you. And a futures-based ETF, which is what the two tweety-baids are planning, will not get rid of the discount.

Big players trade the volatility. They prefer it to go up and down time and time again. ETF and exchanges prefer volatility and volume because they want to make more in fees. The only people who want to see the price go up are retail HoDLers but they make up the smallest portion.

We need to hear an institutional buy announcement in November otherwise it might get nuked. I wouldn't put it past BTC to get to 88k or something and then die.

[gib]

I was messaged today by someone asking how many GetBiggers actually bought when the 5K thread was started.

I have no idea, but would it not have been awesome if we all simply committed to a 5K purchase of Sats at the time? Not only would we then all be whole-coiners, but this entire forum would have been highly financially productive for us all.

Instead we had Mr Anabolic with all his nonsense doing his best to advise people to do the exact opposite. "Stay away from equities, stay away from Bitcoin, but gold and silver" (all of which turned out to be terrible advice).

Anyhow, we still all can enjoy the ride. There is a loooong road of adoption still ahead. We should never forget the words of Mr Anabolic (even if said in sarcasm)... "First $100,000, then $1,000,000".

This words from that stubborn old goat may in hindsight turned out to have been good advice! ") (Oh the irony!) 

[Flexacon]

I was messaged today by someone asking how many GetBiggers actually bought when the 5K thread was started.

I have no idea, but would it not have been awesome if we all simply committed to a 5K purchase of Sats at the time? Not only would we then all be whole-coiners, but this entire forum would have been highly financially productive for us all.

Instead we had Mr Anabolic with all his nonsense doing his best to advise people to do the exact opposite. "Stay away from equities, stay away from Bitcoin, but gold and silver" (all of which turned out to be terrible advice).

Anyhow, we still all can enjoy the ride. There is a loooong road of adoption still ahead. We should never forget the words of Mr Anabolic (even if said in sarcasm)... "First $100,000, then $1,000,000".

This words from that stubborn old goat may in hindsight turned out to have been good advice! ") (Oh the irony!) 

I'm pretty sure the original title was actually "Bitcoins - about to hit $250 per coin today!"

The title got updated to 5k at the end of 2017. Maybe it needs updating again or even going back to the original title.

Also there was very little interest in this thread originally. It took like 5 months for this thread to even get to 2 pages and 2 years to get to 3 pages.

[gib]

I'm pretty sure the original title was actually "Bitcoins - about to hit $250 per coin today!"

The title got updated to 5k at the end of 2017. Maybe it needs updating again or even going back to the original title.

Also there was very little interest in this thread originally. It took like 5 months for this thread to even get to 2 pages and 2 years to get to 3 pages.

Part of the function of the thread was also to capture all the FUD that was thrown out there, each of which was dismissed over time.

Mr Anabolic played the perfect part in this, and we now have a great cache of recorded data that will in time be used in case studies of the mental anguish older or more closed-minded people face as they encounter a threat to a core belief system during a fundamental societal change enabled by technology.

So we have done some real good here, GetBiggers! And we will all be immortalized and featured in such future studies (even if only by avatar name!).

[Flexacon]

Part of the function of the thread was also to capture all the FUD that was thrown out there, each of which was dismissed over time.

Mr Anabolic played the perfect part in this, and we now have a great cache of recorded data that will in time be used in case studies of the mental anguish older or more closed-minded people face as they encounter a threat to a core belief system during a fundamental societal change enabled by technology.

So we have done some real good here, GetBiggers! And we will all be immortalized and featured in such future studies (even if only by avatar name!).

The passage of time may yet still prove Anabolic was right.

The longer this goes on unabated, the more I believe government created it.  They want a cashless society.  That's not a good thing.  Right now you have to convert it back to dollars in order to spend it. EVERY transaction you make is traceable and taxable.  The IRS is on top of it and will come after you for taxes owed... this happened to a friend of mine that bought a whole bunch when it was $100.  In May 2017 he cashed out at around $2000.  Just recently he received a tax bill from the IRS for $25,000 - ouch.

TPTB have to keep their fiat scam system going and cryptos are the future of it.  I'm stay far away from these things, I don't care how high they go. 

You want to invest in a seriously undervalued asset with enormous upside potential?... silver is it.  Keep in mind it is a l-o-n-g term investment and it could take years to reach true/full value.  Right now the price of metals are being manipulated and held down by TPTB.  However, they cannot do it forever.

[Mayday]

It seems US HoDLers might be in for a shot in the near future.

US looking into taxation on unrealised capital gains in liquid assets……

Wouldn’t it suck paying taxes and then it dumps.

[GymnJuice]

It seems US HoDLers might be in for a shot in the near future.

US looking into taxation on unrealised capital gains in liquid assets……

Wouldn’t it suck paying taxes and then it dumps.

Horrible idea by the Democrats.  Will kill markets. 

[gib]

The passage of time may yet still prove Anabolic was right.

Satoshi was not "the Government" or "the CIA" or any other conspiracy. Rather he was an individual libertarian an freedom pioneer.

Of course Governments was cashless (and trackable) money. That is a certainty. Bitcoin is our defence to that.

[Zillotch]

Satoshi was not "the Government" or "the CIA" or any other conspiracy. Rather he was an individual libertarian an freedom pioneer.

Of course Governments was cashless (and trackable) money. That is a certainty. Bitcoin is our defence to that.

belief in bitcoin is the same as believing in a rona vax - damnation disguised as hope.

fear and greed r not the route to 'freedom'.

[Flexacon]

Satoshi was not "the Government" or "the CIA" or any other conspiracy. Rather he was an individual libertarian an freedom pioneer.

You do realise you're saying that without even having any proof of who or what "Satoshi" is.

[gib]

You do realise you're saying that without even having any proof of who or what "Satoshi" is.

Onus is on conspiracy theorists to prove any of the nonsense they believe in. There is nothing in the whitepaper that supports the view of the CIA conspiracy nonsense. This is how science works.

Its like me claiming ghosts are real (and asking you to disprove it). Onus is on the person making the claim. Where is the evidece of your claims?

Either way, lets imagine for a moment the CIA did create it. So what even if so? The ledger is public. The block chain is decentralized. Any changes are subject to the consent mechanism.

Its like arguing about whether "God" created gold, or whether it was an organic creation. Either way, its irrelevant to the function and properties of gold.

[Flexacon]

Onus is on conspiracy theorists to prove any of the nonsense they believe in. There is nothing in the whitepaper that supports the view of the CIA conspiracy nonsense. This is how science works.

Its like me claiming ghosts are real (and asking you to disprove it). Onus is on the person making the claim. Where is the evidece of your claims?

Either way, lets imagine for a moment the CIA did create it. So what even if so? The ledger is public. The block chain is decentralized. Any changes are subject to the consent mechanism.

Its like arguing about whether "God" created gold, or whether it was an organic creation. Either way, its irrelevant to the function and properties of gold.

What claim did I make exactly? There were none.

I highlighted 2 points in a post made by anabolic where he provided his reasons for not getting involved in bitcoin.

"The longer this goes on unabated, the more I believe government created it.  They want a cashless society.  That's not a good thing.  Right now you have to convert it back to dollars in order to spend it."

Are you able to freely transact in bitcoin? What if the most major governments switch to BTC. Who would be right. You or Anabolic?

"TPTB have to keep their fiat scam system going and cryptos are the future of it.  I'm stay far away from these things, I don't care how high they go."

For arguments sake, let's say he doesn't care about being wealthy and doesn't care how high prices went. He had his reasons for not wanting to get involved, just like you have your reasons for hodling BTC. Both are equally valid to the individual, so who is right here?

As I said when I quoted his post. It will be the passage of time that will show us know who was right. There is also still a good chance you'll both be wrong. (Buy ETH and LRC)

[gib]

What claim did I make exactly? There were none.

I highlighted 2 points in a post made by anabolic where he provided his reasons for not getting involved in bitcoin.

"The longer this goes on unabated, the more I believe government created it.  They want a cashless society.  That's not a good thing.  Right now you have to convert it back to dollars in order to spend it."

Are you able to freely transact in bitcoin? What if the most major governments switch to BTC. Who would be right. You or Anabolic?

"TPTB have to keep their fiat scam system going and cryptos are the future of it.  I'm stay far away from these things, I don't care how high they go."

For arguments sake, let's say he doesn't care about being wealthy and doesn't care how high prices went. He had his reasons for not wanting to get involved, just like you have your reasons for hodling BTC. Both are equally valid to the individual, so who is right here?

As I said when I quoted his post. It will be the passage of time that will show us know who was right. There is also still a good chance you'll both be wrong. (Buy ETH and LRC)

Of course you don't need to "convert it into a dollar to spend it". That comment from Mr A is as idiotic now, as it was back then when he made it.

Of  course we will see Government coins (and these will both track spending, and not be limited in supply). Bitcoin is not the enemy here, nor is it a trojan horse - rather, Bitcoin is our defence against Government issued digital money. Governments not only will, over time, recognize the legitimacy of Bitcoin, but they indeed have no choice but to do so.

As for who was right, obviously it was me. He called Bitcoin "a Ponzi scheme", and "a bubble of nothingness doomed to fail." I explained to him that it was the future decentralized monetary system of the world.

No Government can control Bitcoin as Bitcoin is not sovereign to any country - its global, decentralized, amorphous, and immutable. Government's can certainly adopt its usage though (which of course would be a huge boost to its overall value due to the fixed supply). We are now starting to see this occur in various ways globally, whether its allowing taxes to be paid in Sats, allowing employees to be paid in Sats, allowing banks to use Sats, recognizing disputes relates to Sats as solvable under the existing established legal system, or even (in the case of El Salvador) making it an actual official currency.

So yes, Mr A gave reasons, but they were of course all either wrong, illogical, false, un-ethical, spiteful, obstinate, pig-headed, misguided, deceptive, misleading, or irrational.

[gib]

Wow look at Australia. Suddenly BTC has been legitimized there with regulated Bitcoin ETFs allowed (and alts not allowed it seems).

For any Australians here, wonder if you would buy such an ETF? Would appeal to a range of people and companies I think.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/australias-top-securities-regulator-says-it-will-approve-bitcoin-etfs

[djliftsthings]

i dont know dick squat about this stuff
but is it true that if someone bought 8 grand of shib in august theyd be a gazillionaire now?
just something i read

[Flexacon]

i dont know dick squat about this stuff
but is it true that if someone bought 8 grand of shib in august theyd be a gazillionaire now?
just something i read

August 2020 and yes. But chances are they would have sold long long before the prices got so big, probably under $100k. Whoever bought that $8k shib in 2020 has most likely forgotten their wallet key and can't access their coins or is dead.

[Flexacon]

Wow look at Australia. Suddenly BTC has been legitimized there with regulated Bitcoin ETFs allowed (and alts not allowed it seems).

For any Australians here, wonder if you would buy such an ETF? Would appeal to a range of people and companies I think.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/australias-top-securities-regulator-says-it-will-approve-bitcoin-etfs

Most of these ETFs are approved on the basis that bitcoin is decentralised. If there is demand or a need for an alt ETF then there wouldn't be much of an issue getting it approved as long as that alt is decentralised.

[gib]

Most of these ETFs are approved on the basis that bitcoin is decentralised. If there is demand or a need for an alt ETF then there wouldn't be much of an issue getting it approved as long as that alt is decentralised.

The main distinction being applied by regulators (both in the US and globally) is whether the coin is a commodity or an illegal security. Almost all alts are illegal securities, due to how they were created and a portion of "equity" and "control" being retained by a founder at the outset.

Bitcoin is a quite unique exception, hence for this reason (among others) we are seeing Bitcoin going global with institutional regulatory support. Very unlikely we will any time soon see any such thing for any alt, although never say never. Far more likely that an alt EFT will be various private equity ALT hedge funds (which already exist).

[Flexacon]

The main distinction being applied by regulators (both in the US and globally) is whether the coin is a commodity or an illegal security. Almost all alts are illegal securities, due to how they were created and a portion of "equity" and "control" being retained by a founder at the outset.

Bitcoin is a quite unique exception, hence for this reason (among others) we are seeing Bitcoin going global with institutional regulatory support. Very unlikely we will any time soon see any such thing for any alt, although never say never. Far more likely that an alt EFT will be various private equity ALT hedge funds (which already exist).

Well the ASIC you mentioned that green lit a Bitcoin ETF in Australia also green lit an Ethereum ETF. You posted an article that only mentions the Bitcoin ETF. Why would you do that gib?

Plenty of articles mentioning the Ethereum ETF

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/asic-gives-trading-of-bitcoin-ethereum-etfs-green-light-20211029-p594ea.html
https://ambcrypto.com/australia-asic-issues-new-guidelines-on-etfs-for-investor-protection/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/australian-securities-regulator-issues-guidelines-for-crypto-etps

[gib]

Well the ASIC you mentioned that green lit a Bitcoin ETF in Australia also green lit an Ethereum ETF. You posted an article that only mentions the Bitcoin ETF. Why would you do that gib?

Plenty of articles mentioning the Ethereum ETF

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/asic-gives-trading-of-bitcoin-ethereum-etfs-green-light-20211029-p594ea.html
https://ambcrypto.com/australia-asic-issues-new-guidelines-on-etfs-for-investor-protection/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/australian-securities-regulator-issues-guidelines-for-crypto-etps

I did it because its true, and because it relates to Bitcoin (which is what this thread is about).

However, yes correct ETH also seems to likely be possible for an ETF. BTC will be first, but ETH may well follow. Other lalts very unlikely for now.

[Flexacon]

Great video regarding ATHs. This is the one youtubers videos I should never have stopped watching.

[Mayday]

Great video regarding ATHs. This is the one youtubers videos I should never have stopped watching.

He is much better now. Earlier he would say up, down, left, right which means after all the smart maths he did, he still wasn’t sure WTF was going on. He actually gives an opinion now and it’s been solid. His interview with Saylor was brutal, good on him for standing up to Saylor.

Meanwhile Twitter has traders make so many bad calls once the market stopped going up, it is now a comedic theme of influencers hiding behind tweets meant to confuse to hide the fact they don’t know WTF they are doing and got wrecked.

There was that Alex Saunders Aussie guy. Had millions, used leverage, got wiped out, borrowed, lost it all again, arranged more BTC loans and ultimately scammed big name influencers and has left social media lol.

Alts are kicking ass.

That was another lie I learned from last time. The big money in alts is made early, not later.

[gib]

Its true the big money in alts is early. Ideally as the founder, or at the top of the source prior to mainstream release. After that its a matter of milking the masses. Not sure its a proud way to be making money, but it is what it is...