Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1767843 times)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8150 on: October 29, 2021, 07:49:26 PM »
Most of these ETFs are approved on the basis that bitcoin is decentralised. If there is demand or a need for an alt ETF then there wouldn't be much of an issue getting it approved as long as that alt is decentralised.

The main distinction being applied by regulators (both in the US and globally) is whether the coin is a commodity or an illegal security. Almost all alts are illegal securities, due to how they were created and a portion of "equity" and "control" being retained by a founder at the outset.

Bitcoin is a quite unique exception, hence for this reason (among others) we are seeing Bitcoin going global with institutional regulatory support. Very unlikely we will any time soon see any such thing for any alt, although never say never. Far more likely that an alt EFT will be various private equity ALT hedge funds (which already exist).


Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8151 on: October 29, 2021, 08:22:34 PM »
The main distinction being applied by regulators (both in the US and globally) is whether the coin is a commodity or an illegal security. Almost all alts are illegal securities, due to how they were created and a portion of "equity" and "control" being retained by a founder at the outset.

Bitcoin is a quite unique exception, hence for this reason (among others) we are seeing Bitcoin going global with institutional regulatory support. Very unlikely we will any time soon see any such thing for any alt, although never say never. Far more likely that an alt EFT will be various private equity ALT hedge funds (which already exist).

Well the ASIC you mentioned that green lit a Bitcoin ETF in Australia also green lit an Ethereum ETF. You posted an article that only mentions the Bitcoin ETF. Why would you do that gib?

Plenty of articles mentioning the Ethereum ETF

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/asic-gives-trading-of-bitcoin-ethereum-etfs-green-light-20211029-p594ea.html
https://ambcrypto.com/australia-asic-issues-new-guidelines-on-etfs-for-investor-protection/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/australian-securities-regulator-issues-guidelines-for-crypto-etps

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8152 on: October 29, 2021, 11:50:37 PM »
Well the ASIC you mentioned that green lit a Bitcoin ETF in Australia also green lit an Ethereum ETF. You posted an article that only mentions the Bitcoin ETF. Why would you do that gib?

Plenty of articles mentioning the Ethereum ETF

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/asic-gives-trading-of-bitcoin-ethereum-etfs-green-light-20211029-p594ea.html
https://ambcrypto.com/australia-asic-issues-new-guidelines-on-etfs-for-investor-protection/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/australian-securities-regulator-issues-guidelines-for-crypto-etps

I did it because its true, and because it relates to Bitcoin (which is what this thread is about).

However, yes correct ETH also seems to likely be possible for an ETF. BTC will be first, but ETH may well follow. Other lalts very unlikely for now.

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8153 on: October 31, 2021, 04:06:27 AM »
Great video regarding ATHs. This is the one youtubers videos I should never have stopped watching.


Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8154 on: November 01, 2021, 06:27:31 PM »
Great video regarding ATHs. This is the one youtubers videos I should never have stopped watching.


He is much better now. Earlier he would say up, down, left, right which means after all the smart maths he did, he still wasn’t sure WTF was going on. He actually gives an opinion now and it’s been solid. His interview with Saylor was brutal, good on him for standing up to Saylor.

Meanwhile Twitter has traders make so many bad calls once the market stopped going up, it is now a comedic theme of influencers hiding behind tweets meant to confuse to hide the fact they don’t know WTF they are doing and got wrecked.

There was that Alex Saunders Aussie guy. Had millions, used leverage, got wiped out, borrowed, lost it all again, arranged more BTC loans and ultimately scammed big name influencers and has left social media lol.

Alts are kicking ass.

That was another lie I learned from last time. The big money in alts is made early, not later.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8155 on: November 01, 2021, 06:52:02 PM »
Its true the big money in alts is early. Ideally as the founder, or at the top of the source prior to mainstream release. After that its a matter of milking the masses. Not sure its a proud way to be making money, but it is what it is...

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8156 on: November 02, 2021, 03:00:32 AM »
He is much better now. Earlier he would say up, down, left, right which means after all the smart maths he did, he still wasn’t sure WTF was going on. He actually gives an opinion now and it’s been solid. His interview with Saylor was brutal, good on him for standing up to Saylor.

Meanwhile Twitter has traders make so many bad calls once the market stopped going up, it is now a comedic theme of influencers hiding behind tweets meant to confuse to hide the fact they don’t know WTF they are doing and got wrecked.

There was that Alex Saunders Aussie guy. Had millions, used leverage, got wiped out, borrowed, lost it all again, arranged more BTC loans and ultimately scammed big name influencers and has left social media lol.

Alts are kicking ass.

That was another lie I learned from last time. The big money in alts is made early, not later.


Bitcoin boomers don't seem to understand that. Fair enough I guess if they can't pick which Alts to get behind.

Why buy and hold bitcoin right now for 2% gains when you can get 10% to 100% plus gains by picking the right in alts in that same time period? Once the cycle ends you can roll all that into bitcoin or other less risky investments.

(Can't wait for some maxi moron to come along and tell me it can't be done so I can own them like a bitch again)

Also I'm not gonna hold it against Cowen if he doesn't give an opinion or position (at least in his free youtube content) It should really be down to the individual to use any information he provides the best way they see fit.

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8157 on: November 02, 2021, 03:04:32 AM »
Its true the big money in alts is early. Ideally as the founder, or at the top of the source prior to mainstream release. After that its a matter of milking the masses. Not sure its a proud way to be making money, but it is what it is...

There are still potentially plenty of undervalued (in terms of crypto) and unloved utility Alts that are yet to have their day. You just have to keep yourself in the loop with regards to what the project is doing.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8158 on: November 02, 2021, 04:01:55 AM »

Why buy and hold bitcoin right now for 2% gains when you can get 10% to 100% plus gains by picking the right in alts in that same time period?

Because most people, including you, cannot pick the next "right alt", (even though you may think you can...)

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8159 on: November 02, 2021, 04:06:52 AM »
Because most people, including you, cannot pick the next "right alt", (even though you may think you can...)

No one on here believes there is "one true alt". We leave that nonsense to you maxis. You don't need to pick "the next right alt". Just enough of them out performing bitcoin in the short term.

You can throw 3 darts at the top 100 alts right now and the odds would be in your favour that combined they'd out perform bitcoin in the short term. Now if you put some time in and look at the utility, people involved and what stage the project is at, then you can shift the odds even further in your favour.

Also I did tell you to buy LRC a few days ago. It's up 200% since then. Bitcoin in that time is up 2%.

Somehow I don't think I'll be stacking sats just yet, but there is a very good chance I'll be joining you at the end of this cycle/next cycle bottom after alts capitulate.


gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8160 on: November 02, 2021, 05:30:45 AM »
No one on here believes there is "one true alt". We leave that nonsense to you maxis. You don't need to pick "the next right alt". Just enough of them out performing bitcoin in the short term.

You can throw 3 darts at the top 100 alts right now and the odds would be in your favour that combined they'd out perform bitcoin in the short term.

Also I did tell you to buy LRC a few days ago. It's up 200% since then. Bitcoin in that time is up 2%.

Somehow I don't think I'll be stacking sats just yet, but there is a very good chance I'll be joining you at the end of this cycle/next cycle bottom after alts capitulate.

Good luck!

Here's a fun challenge - post your exact alt trades here, and then do a comparison to BTC over time. If starting from today, assume every holding is a "purchase" at day #1.

Will be interesting to see how you go. (Or just even do this for yourself, to ensure you are keeping yourself honest, so to speak. Many alt traders, and currency traders, and stock days traders, kidd themselves about how well they are actually doing.)

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8161 on: November 02, 2021, 05:48:58 AM »
Good luck!

Here's a fun challenge - post your exact alt trades here, and then do a comparison to BTC over time. If starting from today, assume every holding is a "purchase" at day #1.

Will be interesting to see how you go. (Or just even do this for yourself, to ensure you are keeping yourself honest, so to speak. Many alt traders, and currency traders, and stock days traders, kidd themselves about how well they are actually doing.)

Here is the thing I have always done that for myself. I have also done that on here to a degree going back to 2018. More so recently, and this is why I troll maxis on here with conviction, because I can back it up.

I don't trade in the ways you mention or probably think. I have always said I'm a mid-term/take profit hodler. It's not that different to what you do with btc. I just try hodl utility coins that I believe will give better returns.

My 3 main coins are ETH, LRC and DOT. Just for fun let's add Efinity. Something you mentioned an interest in. Let's see how it would do if you actually held it and took profits like I would. If you've done your due diligence and like it, then no better time to buy than right now.

Btw LRC is now up 300% since I told you to buy it.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8162 on: November 02, 2021, 07:06:08 PM »
Correct. Yes, I do hold Efinity. Long term hodl for me, but I generally keep it simple - BTC only.

I am not disputing that some alts you have chosen will (or have) risen. What I am disputing is that overall you can reliably do this consistently, so that your gains in doing so outperform the performance of BTC in the long run. So, its this that I challenge you to track.

Agnostic007

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8163 on: November 02, 2021, 07:47:00 PM »
How do I sell my bitcoins?

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8164 on: November 02, 2021, 10:28:15 PM »
Correct. Yes, I do hold Efinity. Long term hodl for me, but I generally keep it simple - BTC only.

I am not disputing that some alts you have chosen will (or have) risen. What I am disputing is that overall you can reliably do this consistently, so that your gains in doing so outperform the performance of BTC in the long run. So, its this that I challenge you to track.

You're trying to dispute something I never claimed. In fact I suggested the opposite strategy. I basically said take short term alt gains and roll them into a safer bet like bitcoin.

Bitcoin boomers don't seem to understand that. Fair enough I guess if they can't pick which Alts to get behind.

Why buy and hold bitcoin right now for 2% gains when you can get 10% to 100% plus gains by picking the right in alts in that same time period? Once the cycle ends you can roll all that into bitcoin or other less risky investments.


Somehow I don't think I'll be stacking sats just yet, but there is a very good chance I'll be joining you at the end of this cycle/next cycle bottom after alts capitulate.

It's simple. When bitcoin is hitting all time highs, a lot of alts go parabolic in price. That's what you're missing out on and believe is difficult to do, to the point you think anyone making such claims is lying to themselves. Are you HumbleNarcissist in disguise?

Also let's ignore the fact that I even told you to buy ETH and LRC literally hours before the pumped to a new ATH and 300% respectively. Let's call that "luck". You don't need to take my word for any of this. Charts with price history and dates/times are freely available to everyone for comparisons and you can make your own conclusions.

Griffith

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8165 on: November 03, 2021, 01:19:10 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/ethereum-futures-etf-more-likely-than-bitcoin-fund-bi-says?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=crypto&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Crypto Might See An Ethereum Futures ETF More Before Spot Bitcoin Funds

U.S. regulators are more likely to approve an Ethereum futures-based ETF before giving the greenlight on a fund that holds Bitcoin directly, according to Bloomberg Intelligence.

“Most market participants agree that a spot Bitcoin ETF would be superior to existing futures ETFs, yet SEC approval of the former may be delayed until late 2022 or beyond,” James Seyffart, analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, wrote in a note Tuesday. An Ethereum futures exchange-trade fund could be approved as soon as the first quarter of next year, he estimated.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8166 on: November 03, 2021, 04:32:35 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/ethereum-futures-etf-more-likely-than-bitcoin-fund-bi-says?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=crypto&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Crypto Might See An Ethereum Futures ETF More Before Spot Bitcoin Funds

U.S. regulators are more likely to approve an Ethereum futures-based ETF before giving the greenlight on a fund that holds Bitcoin directly, according to Bloomberg Intelligence.

“Most market participants agree that a spot Bitcoin ETF would be superior to existing futures ETFs, yet SEC approval of the former may be delayed until late 2022 or beyond,” James Seyffart, analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, wrote in a note Tuesday. An Ethereum futures exchange-trade fund could be approved as soon as the first quarter of next year, he estimated.

Yes. Very likely. I also think we will see more foreign physical ETFs before we see such an ETF in the US. But it will come. That will likely be the floodgate that moves BTC to the 100K mark. The delay now, is to allow all the government and institutional insiders, who know this is coming, to accumulate on the sly.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8167 on: November 04, 2021, 03:23:08 AM »
Also I'm not gonna hold it against Cowen if he doesn't give an opinion or position (at least in his free youtube content) It should really be down to the individual to use any information he provides the best way they see fit.

He copped enough shit for being a fence sitter and he changed his tune. Saylor belittled the maths he does (i doubt Saylor knew the guy's background) and he took offence and went after Saylor. If he wants to do things like that when he is the interviewer, then you better be sure as shit you are making market calls to backup that your super maths works. Otherwise it's like the high school maths teacher arguing with a billionaire about how their chalkboard maths predicts all things.......


Many alt traders, and currency traders, and stock days traders, kidd themselves about how well they are actually doing.)

Many BTC traders also kid themselves and get wrecked.

Alts allow lower investment to be offset by higher risk/reward. But you don't buy just one, that is your inner BTC maxi leading you astray. You buy a bunch of them and use the weighting for the overall performance. I have had some alts double, one go 5x, some do bugger all so overall my weighted bag is 60% ahead of my BTC/ETH performance.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8168 on: November 04, 2021, 09:09:03 PM »

Many BTC traders also kid themselves and get wrecked.

For sure, especially newbees. The key is to learn the importance of hodl, and to understand that short term vol does not conflict with a long term trend.


Alts allow lower investment to be offset by higher risk/reward. But you don't buy just one, that is your inner BTC maxi leading you astray. You buy a bunch of them and use the weighting for the overall performance. I have had some alts double, one go 5x, some do bugger all so overall my weighted bag is 60% ahead of my BTC/ETH performance.

Yes, obviously the capacity of any lower market capped alt to increase is greater than a large cap. I can create an alt for $1, sell it for $10 and make a 1000% gain. Harder to do with a trillion dollar market capped stock. Hence the appeal of alts to some. Which is all good on the way up, and which is why a basket of "leading alts" will likely outperform ETH on the way up, and why ETH in turn will outperform BTC on the way up, with BTC being the centre of gravity around which all alts float.

The key is to know when things are going up (or down), as the same reverse happens to alts on in an overall decline. And so this is the crux of the issue - people kid themselves in thinking that they can predict market cycles. (Basic game theory that half the people, on average must be on the wrong side of this bet). So unless they are fortunate enough to sell, all those "big gains" in alts evaporate on a decline as money moves into safe haven BTC. If you can do this successfully, great. But reality is that over time, very few people (even very sophisticated investors) can do it long term. And hence, usually lessons are learned every big downward cycle adjustment.
 
There are of course a few tactics you can deploy to help reduce downside risk - for example always jeep a balance of 10 alt / 20 / Eth / 70 BTC and then rotated in and out, depending on these rations going up or down. I would also urge anyone thinking they can outperform with alts to truly track their alt portfolio against both a theoretical 100% BTC and 100% cash portfolio. Everyone I have challenged to do this since 2017 has eventually come to the same conclusion that they were indeed deluding themselves in how they viewed their longer term trading performance in alts. It's well worth doing as an exercise, if only to keep yourself honest to yourself! That is not to say that its not fun trading alts. Its certainly more exciting to see more vol, and so if you get a pleasure from that, that in itself is something of value (much like betting on horses, despite knowing that in the long run its a losing proposition).


Griffith

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8169 on: November 04, 2021, 10:10:01 PM »

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8170 on: November 04, 2021, 11:12:01 PM »
Raoul Pal now holds 70% ETH, 25% Alts and 5% BTC in his portfolio.

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2021/10/former-goldman-sachs-exec-explains-why-his-crypto-portfolio-is-70-eth-5-btc/amp/

He switched out a few months back.

His price predictions are very dubious. There is no 'we are all gunna make it'. He will tell everyone it's going to be over 250k so that you keep holding and buying while he dumps onto you....... i mean, he did dump his BTC onto plebs.

But he also has a residence in the Caymans so he isn't paying any tax and can switch around his crypto holdings easily.

We are about to begin a weekend and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see BTC hit a new ATH.

Griffith

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8171 on: November 04, 2021, 11:55:29 PM »
He switched out a few months back.

His price predictions are very dubious. There is no 'we are all gunna make it'. He will tell everyone it's going to be over 250k so that you keep holding and buying while he dumps onto you....... i mean, he did dump his BTC onto plebs.

But he also has a residence in the Caymans so he isn't paying any tax and can switch around his crypto holdings easily.

We are about to begin a weekend and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see BTC hit a new ATH.

Wouldn’t surprise me either to see another BTC high this weekend.

The point he made is that at the moment ETH has potential for higher returns compared to BTC, though with slightly more risk.

If BTC doubles from here, ETH will probably 3X.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8172 on: November 05, 2021, 03:08:26 AM »
Raoul Pal now holds 70% ETH, 25% Alts and 5% BTC in his portfolio.

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2021/10/former-goldman-sachs-exec-explains-why-his-crypto-portfolio-is-70-eth-5-btc/amp/

Pal is like Vays, Woo, Clemente and all other smoke selling douche bags. If you listen carefully, Pal tells you what to buy, not when to buy it. That and the fact that his real goal is to sell his Real Vision product, which he shills every two words. And Real Vision isn't really that useful either, it sells macro information and gives you an "informed" view of the markets via interviews of people of shady pedigree. I mean, Brett Johnson? Lyn Alden? 

Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8173 on: November 05, 2021, 06:12:07 AM »
For sure, especially newbees. The key is to learn the importance of hodl, and to understand that short term vol does not conflict with a long term trend.

Yes, obviously the capacity of any lower market capped alt to increase is greater than a large cap. I can create an alt for $1, sell it for $10 and make a 1000% gain. Harder to do with a trillion dollar market capped stock. Hence the appeal of alts to some. Which is all good on the way up, and which is why a basket of "leading alts" will likely outperform ETH on the way up, and why ETH in turn will outperform BTC on the way up, with BTC being the centre of gravity around which all alts float.

The key is to know when things are going up (or down), as the same reverse happens to alts on in an overall decline. And so this is the crux of the issue - people kid themselves in thinking that they can predict market cycles. (Basic game theory that half the people, on average must be on the wrong side of this bet). So unless they are fortunate enough to sell, all those "big gains" in alts evaporate on a decline as money moves into safe haven BTC. If you can do this successfully, great. But reality is that over time, very few people (even very sophisticated investors) can do it long term. And hence, usually lessons are learned every big downward cycle adjustment.
 
There are of course a few tactics you can deploy to help reduce downside risk - for example always jeep a balance of 10 alt / 20 / Eth / 70 BTC and then rotated in and out, depending on these rations going up or down. I would also urge anyone thinking they can outperform with alts to truly track their alt portfolio against both a theoretical 100% BTC and 100% cash portfolio. Everyone I have challenged to do this since 2017 has eventually come to the same conclusion that they were indeed deluding themselves in how they viewed their longer term trading performance in alts. It's well worth doing as an exercise, if only to keep yourself honest to yourself! That is not to say that its not fun trading alts. Its certainly more exciting to see more vol, and so if you get a pleasure from that, that in itself is something of value (much like betting on horses, despite knowing that in the long run its a losing proposition).

HumbleGibissist still at it.

You leave out one crucial bit of information in your brand of FUD against ALTs. Not all ALTs are the same. They vary from being complete garbage to potentially being pillars in Web 3.0

Put effort into finding ALT projects worth hodling and any "timing of the market" and "selling for big gains" along the way is just a nice bonus.


gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #8174 on: November 06, 2021, 02:38:02 AM »
Alts vary from being complete garbage to potentially being pillars in Web 3.0

Put effort into finding ALT projects worth hodling and any "timing of the market" and "selling for big gains" along the way is just a nice bonus.

I agree with you. Yes, the vast amount of "projects" are alt scams, but I agree that some are legit and may add true value. The problem here is that almost no-one alt-trading values them for their project's calculated economic worth. In other words just because something provides value does not mean its current price is justified.  I've actually tried doing a calculation of value with UniSwap and Efinity. Both have a theoretical value that can be calculated, but there are so many factors in the mix that is almost impossible to calculate in practice.

With Bitcoin this dilemma is of course much easier, as its entire value is as a fundamental base layer store of wealth. The problem with the many "alt projects" that are not outright scams, is that there is a coin issued against the project which has its value ultimately tied to the success of the project it was issued for, (which in turn is extremely difficult to calculate). It is only a minute % of alt investors who would actually apply an economic valuation metric to an alt. Almost all simply look at "trading patterns", or base their decisions on ridiculous factors such as "the price is cheaper so I get more of them" or "it has a cool sounding name". Remember also that some protocols that are pillars of 3.0 may be widely adopted but essentially free. So don't be confused with functional use vs coin value on those either. Anyhow, good luck. Short term its all sentiment driven. Mark my words, you will learn an alt lesson in due course. (I am guessing this is your first time around in an alt cycle correct? If not, then ask yourself how many alts from the last cycle in 2018 are still around and talked about). Same thing will happen in 2025 as we look back on 2021... Wish you luck!